Is it Hooker or the "system"?

[VFL-82-JP]

It is certainly both.

Hooker's talent--mental, physical and leadership--is off the charts. He is certainly Heisman-worthy. Those skill sets are amplified and given room to showcase themselves because Josh Heupel and Alex Golesh are offensive geniuses and particularly excel at using the Xs and Os to put players in situations where they can thrive.

But I disagree with one point of the OP. Being an opponent of the Volunteers, Lawgator, you naturally want this to be a "once in a blue moon" occurrence. You do not want the Tennessee Volunteers to have such a potent advantage over your Gators again in 2023.

Sorry.

Blue moons might become a common sight on Rocky Top. Because we have Joe Milton, Tayven Jackson, and Nico Iamaleava in the bullpen. At least a couple of those are also uncommon--perhaps phenomenal--talents. That will be especially true once they are developed by Heupel and Golesh.

Go Vols!

 

[Falcons02]

I dont think Golesh gets enough credit. Golesh does the bulk of the play calling and the last 2 games have been masterpieces against defenses with lots of talent.

 

[HooahVol]

Heupel has always seen Hooker as the guy for his offense. He pushed hard to recruit Hooker when he was Missouri's OC.

And I agree, Alex Golesh understands Heupel's offense and the two work great together.

 

[perico]

You know, a lot of people talk about his running ability but I just don't see it. Can he take of if the play breaks down? Yes. However his ability to make a guy miss is limited. He could never get out of what Bryce Young did Saturday. I just can't be convinced he is a scrambler anywhere near the level of Mahomes, Russel Wilson, Lamar Jackson, etc.
I'll get flamed for this I know, but just watch the guy when he tries to make someone miss. Rarely can he do it.
With that said, he's better than JG was.

Hooker is over (or will be by the seasons end) 1000 for us on the ground in only 2 years. That’s mobile enough.

 

[agent|orange]

Just about every unbiased person I've seen breaking down UT's offense has given I would wager roughly 60% of the credit to scheme, tempo and playcalling. You obviously have to have the right players for it but also remember they inherited Hooker... they didn't specifically recruit him for their system they modified their system to fit his talents.

IMO the only time I can think of a situation where a staff was able to do this was when Kiffin and Chaney took over in 2009. Kiffin's always been a great playcaller but a terrible scheme guy and Chaney has always been a great sheme guy but a terrible playcaller. They built around what they had and turned a completely broken husk of a QB in Crompton into an NFL draft pick which was a monumental improvement.

Just from a guy who has seen Bray and Dobbs elevate either poor playcalling (Bray and Dobbs) or scheme (Dobbs) to this... it's incomparable. A guy that isn't getting enough praise IMO is Glen Elarbee our OL Coach. He took over a thin and relatively marginally talented group (mostly 3* players) and turned them into a group that has consistently stopped some of the best pass rushers in the business. Without our OL... none of this is happening.

 

[perico]

Hooker likely is better than Milton but they were both new to the system last year. Hooker just seems to have picked it up faster, and Milton needed more time and needed to work on his touch. What little Milton has played this year he looked improved to me, which is encouraging when looking ahead to next year. Hopefully we will get a larger sample size this weekend against UTM.

Hooker was here for spring practice, Milton wasn’t, so he had a head start and better command of the offense. That’s not to say Milton would’ve been as good as Hooker, but he played last year like he was playing backyard football.

 

[VolByBirth]

Hooker may not look as strong at another school and UT's scheme may not look as unbeatable without him. Sometimes the QB and the system are just a perfect match. And I love it.

 

[CAVPUT]

I've had a few back and forths on the board over the last couple of days about whether UT's success is due, entirely or primarily, to Hooker or to "the system" put in place by Huepel & Co. There seem to be two schools of thought: those that want Hooker to win the Heisman say its his mostly if not entirely his ability, while those that hope that this is a long term trend for success for UT over the long haul are hoping its the system and the coaching.

To me it is a bit of both, but I am firmly in the camp that Hooker is a special, once in a blue moon type of talent. I think future teams will get coached differently to match their particular talents. But right now, this season, it is Hooker that gets the credit, imo.

Both IMO. He's got the mental makeup to be a great leader and he's taken to this system and has a great grasp of it. One would love to think that we'll be able to plug any of our QBs into this offense and not miss a beat is wishful thinking. We can't help but take a step or two back when Hooker isn't the trigger man. How long it will take to get back up to full speed will be anyone's guess.

 

[lawgator1]

Your last sentence is a legitimate concern. At Florida, Spurrier had the perfect quarterback for his system in Wuerffel, as did Urban Meyer with Tebow. In both cases, Florida was most formidable during those respective tenures.

On the other hand, Heupel has a much higher ceiling--compared to his starting point here--in terms of elevating our overall roster through sustained high-level recruiting associated with this rapid and dramatic level of success. Consequently, the two factors may, to a significant degree, even each other out.

Heupel has a higher ceiling for recruiting, overall, certainly. But is the success at least somewhat inherent in the ability of Hooker and the chemistry and timing he has with your receivers?

As the other part of your post notes, so much of this kind of success is the happenstance of the right combination of coaches, system, and talent all coming together at the right time. Wuerffel fit Spurrier's system perfectly and he and the receivers also had their timing down. I recall watching Bobby Bowden one day on his show going through game footage with the Gators and he was marveling at how Wuerffel was able to throw to a location, seemingly removed from the players, but anticipating where they would be. Hard to defend against.

Tebow was a decent passer, but not at that level. But his running was a cut or three above and he had tons of talent around him. He had only to get it to Harvin just off the line and his athleticism took over.

Point being, those teams had success because of that perfect coincidence of the right talent and the right scheme, at the right time. Very hard to duplicate. I think only the very very top teams on recruiting can be sure they have players that reasonably fit what they want to do. Alabama, Georgia, even Clemson for awhile. But I do think that for the Florida's and the UT's it is much harder to maintain over the course of multiple classes.

 

[THEONLYTENISEE]

I've had a few back and forths on the board over the last couple of days about whether UT's success is due, entirely or primarily, to Hooker or to "the system" put in place by Huepel & Co. There seem to be two schools of thought: those that want Hooker to win the Heisman say its his mostly if not entirely his ability, while those that hope that this is a long term trend for success for UT over the long haul are hoping its the system and the coaching.

To me it is a bit of both, but I am firmly in the camp that Hooker is a special, once in a blue moon type of talent. I think future teams will get coached differently to match their particular talents. But right now, this season, it is Hooker that gets the credit, imo.

Heupel knows football. There was a year at UCF were his team had more success running than passing.

This isn’t a one and done year program. This staff has shown signs to develop current players. In addition, it appears recruiting should be Top 10 for both the 23 and 24 classes.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

It's the system, Heupels offensive mind, and how he can coach up players. Especially QB's.

 

[lawgator1]

Both IMO. He's got the mental makeup to be a great leader and he's taken to this system and has a great grasp of it. One would love to think that we'll be able to plug any of our QBs into this offense and not miss a beat is wishful thinking. We can't help but take a step or two back when Hooker isn't the trigger man. How long it will take to get back up to full speed will be anyone's guess.

See my post just below yours. That is the challenge for the UTs and Florida's of the world.

 

[NighthawkVol]

I've had a few back and forths on the board over the last couple of days about whether UT's success is due, entirely or primarily, to Hooker or to "the system" put in place by Huepel & Co. There seem to be two schools of thought: those that want Hooker to win the Heisman say its his mostly if not entirely his ability, while those that hope that this is a long term trend for success for UT over the long haul are hoping its the system and the coaching.

To me it is a bit of both, but I am firmly in the camp that Hooker is a special, once in a blue moon type of talent. I think future teams will get coached differently to match their particular talents. But right now, this season, it is Hooker that gets the credit, imo.

It's both. Danny Weurffel won a Heisman playing in Spurrier's system at a level no other Spurrier QB did. But Weurffel wouldn't be that successful in any other system, either. It was a good match. Same applies here.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

This smacks of a fella whistling in the graveyard.

The night is gonna get darker for the Gators, not brighter. At least when it comes to your relationship with the Tennessee Volunteers. Might as well go hide behind the chain saws and settle in.

 

[jimed1]

Bryce Young is not an elite scrambling threat. He's just not. He's a pure passer with some mobility like steve young or someone.

Hooker is in that same boat although i feel like Hooker looks more difficult to catch and is more slippery than BY when he takes off.

Google BY scrambles. If you still fell that way then so be it. There's a whole highlight real of what he did to UT last year. He may not be elite but he's darn good.

 

[DeepSpringsVol]

Bryce Young is not an elite scrambling threat. He's just not. He's a pure passer with some mobility like steve young or someone.

Hooker is in that same boat although i feel like Hooker looks more difficult to catch and is more slippery than BY when he takes off.

Bryce Young to me is what every NFL GM has wanted when you define a mobile qb. 99% Of them at first sign of panic start running. Young on the other hand is elusive but he always keeps his eyes down field. He continues to look for a receiver that will eventually get open and the longer the play goes there will be one. He evades pressure and steps up to make that throw. Every other qb that's mobile would have already taken off. If he were a larger guy he would be the biggest qb prospect in NFL history. That guy has so much moxy and never ever panics.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Google BY scrambles. If you still fell that way then so be it. There's a whole highlight real of what he did to UT last year. He may not be elite but he's darn good.

Heck, don't even have to google it. Just re-watch the game from Saturday. That dude was sliding left and right like he was on skates. He was avoiding incoming defensive missiles like that video arcade game. Gained a lot of respect for Young the way he played, both with his arm and his feet. Mostly with his brain.

Hendon is still about 30 miles better. But Young is a damn fine QB.

 

[jimed1]

Hooker is over (or will be by the seasons end) 1000 for us on the ground in only 2 years. That’s mobile enough.

Agree. I just think some people think can scramble like Kyler Murray, and he clearly is not on that level. HH can absolutely make plays with his legs but he is not what I would call elusive. He just tucks and runs and thats fine. He's certainly made huge plays doing that.

 

[agent|orange]

Heupel has a higher ceiling for recruiting, overall, certainly. But is the success at least somewhat inherent in the ability of Hooker and the chemistry and timing he has with your receivers?

As the other part of your post notes, so much of this kind of success is the happenstance of the right combination of coaches, system, and talent all coming together at the right time. Wuerffel fit Spurrier's system perfectly and he and the receivers also had their timing down. I recall watching Bobby Bowden one day on his show going through game footage with the Gators and he was marveling at how Wuerffel was able to throw to a location, seemingly removed from the players, but anticipating where they would be. Hard to defend against.

Tebow was a decent passer, but not at that level. But his running was a cut or three above and he had tons of talent around him. He had only to get it to Harvin just off the line and his athleticism took over.

Point being, those teams had success because of that perfect coincidence of the right talent and the right scheme, at the right time. Very hard to duplicate. I think only the very very top teams on recruiting can be sure they have players that reasonably fit what they want to do. Alabama, Georgia, even Clemson for awhile. But I do think that for the Florida's and the UT's it is much harder to maintain over the course of multiple classes.

So I'll reiterate:

Most guys that break down scheme on YT have talked about this offense. They give most credit to the staff for specifically scheming players open.

Young was making absolute NFL-level throws. Hooker wasn't having to because his players, more often than not, were schemed open.

Every single week it's the same thing. "Yeah, the players were wide open against Florida. They won't be against LSU."

Then it was "Yeah, the players were wide open against LSU. They won't be against Alabama."

Now it's "Yeah, they were wide open against Bama but won't be against Kentucky."

When are people going to realize that the players are consistently wide open is what professional analysts are saying and it being not just a result of tempo (which does play a part) but definitely scheme/playcalling.

This offense is better because our OL is playing at a high level and our run game has emerged. Also, notably, with almost entirely barely-there 4* but mostly 3* talent across the board save for Darnell Wright.


I'll give plenty of credit to the players for working their asses off and for having high belief in themselves and the scheme, but most credit goes to the staff.

 

[volfanhill]

I dont think Golesh gets enough credit. Golesh does the bulk of the play calling and the last 2 games have been masterpieces against defenses with lots of talent.

I agree. He has earned a big raise this year. As well as the OL/DL and WR coaches. Really impressive

 

[jimed1]

Bryce Young to me is what every NFL GM has wanted when you define a mobile qb. 99% Of them at first sign of panic start running. Young on the other hand is elusive but he always keeps his eyes down field. He continues to look for a receiver that will eventually get open and the longer the play goes there will be one. He evades pressure and steps up to make that throw. Every other qb that's mobile would have already taken off. If he were a larger guy he would be the biggest qb prospect in NFL history. That guy has so much moxy and never ever panics.

Thanks. At least someone agrees with me.

 

[loservol]

This smacks of a fella whistling in the graveyard.

The night is gonna get darker for the Gators, not brighter. At least when it comes to your relationship with the Tennessee Volunteers. Might as well go hide behind the chain saws and settle in.

He has been on this annoying "The Vols are a one hit wonder" kick for the last few days.

 

[Russdaddy2027]

Hooker is special…now. Heupel is a QB whisperer, and the system is part of that. He was not special at VT. A combination of a hungry, intelligent QB, a developer of talent, and the offensive scheme has become something to behold.

Hooker May he an extreme example because of his football IQ, but Heupel makes QB’s look good.

The few looks we have gotten of Milton has shown me they are truly developing QB's... Both HH and Milton are light years beyond last years versions of themselves.

 

[Volfan2012]

Both and how did this offensive line get so good? When have we been able to run the ball this well? All these things come into play when you can keep defenses honest and have a QB that can deliver.

 

[GAVol]

Bryce Young is not an elite scrambling threat.

. . . only because he chooses not to be. It's insane how he keeps his eyes up and keeps plays alive.