IS Jones hurt?

#26
#26
Not only retarded fans we have a bunch of sissy drama queens in our fan base too.
 
#27
#27
JMO Seems that a lot of the players in the women's game think that falling to the floor helps emphasized what has happened to them causing them to fall to the floor. Until the girls develop enough upper body strength to compensate for their fall and thus head hitting the floor, concussions will continue. Just watch the men play and you will see what I mean! Rarely do the men hit their head on the floor.
 
#28
#28
Most of the concussions I've seen have happened when a player was hit by another player, not by a player hitting the floor. Case in point was Ariel's concussion last year. A few years ago, the NCAA tightened up rules against elbows to the head to combat head and facial injuries.
 
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#29
#29
FrozenLVFan said:
Most of the concussions I've seen have happened when a player was hit by another player, not by a player hitting the floor. Case in point was Ariel's concussion last year. A few years ago, the NCAA tightened up rules against elbows to the head to combat head and facial injuries.
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Not the way I remember that happening.
 
#31
#31
The floor, ah, that must be what I was remembering about Ariel...touch her and she seems to fall to the floor.
 
#32
#32
PineyBluff Vol said:
The floor, ah, that must be what I was remembering about Ariel...touch her and she seems to fall to the floor.
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It was a lot more than a touch. Of course viewpoint may differ depending on whose face is getting the blow and how many previous blows said head has taken. I saw it in person; it was pretty brutal and still not convinced it was 100% accidental. Don't think the girl meant to injure her that badly, but.....sort of think she meant to lay one on her.
 
#33
#33
Smallvol#1 said:
It was a lot more than a touch. Of course viewpoint may differ depending on whose face is getting the blow and how many previous blows said head has taken. I saw it in person; it was pretty brutal and still not convinced it was 100% accidental. Don't think the girl meant to injure her that badly, but.....sort of think she meant to lay one on her.
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That is what I recall as well. From this thread, it is clear that a lot education is still needed about brain trauma.

People need to realize that a concussion occurs when the brain is slammed against the interior of one's skull, leading to contusions, swelling and internal bleeding. And this is the brain we are talking about.

And angles and force vectors play a big role in what kind of damage occurs. An elbow in the face, to a player with a history of concussions, can and DID create serious problems for Massengale. Know one can know if the concussion resulted from the elbow to the face, the contact with the floor or both. However, I am not ready to criticize a player for falling to the floor after getting an forceful elbow to the face. That hit was not a "touch."
 
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#34
#34
Would someone be able to show video of Massengale's injury happening? I saw the game and watched replays a few times and don't recall an elbow to her face ,but a hand. Maybe I just missed it. However,it was serious enough that she missed half a season.
 
#35
#35
Benionsopinion said:
Would someone be able to show video of Massengale's injury happening? I saw the game and watched replays a few times and don't recall an elbow to her face ,but a hand. Maybe I just missed it. However,it was serious enough that she missed half a season.
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We saw it at the game and then watched our DVR of it several times. It was a hand as I recall, but it was at full force. IIRC she was at full speed and the FL player put a hand in her face. Been a while since I took physics, but SandVol might be able to calculate force=mass x acceleration for us:) I know I wouldn't want to take it to my face.:yikes:
 
#37
#37
A hand to the face does not cause the brain to bounce from one side of the skull to the other. Now the hand to the face may cause the player to change direction and make contact with something hard (example) floor. I have dealt with many athletic injuries and many concussions, in my years of dealing with these, I cannot every remember a concussion caused by a hand. By the way, the fist is not a hand.
 
#38
#38
PineyBluff Vol said:
A hand to the face does not cause the brain to bounce from one side of the skull to the other. Now the hand to the face may cause the player to change direction and make contact with something hard (example) floor. I have dealt with many athletic injuries and many concussions, in my years of dealing with these, I cannot every remember a concussion caused by a hand. By the way, the fist is not a hand.
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PLEASE tell me you meant to use blue font on the above post.
 
#39
#39
I have also dealt with many head injuries, of all sorts. A hand to the face can cause a concussion in the right circumstances. Contributing factors in this case were the speed at which both players were moving, and probably Ariel's past history of concussions.

To correct something stated above, a concussion does occur from a blow to the head/face, but the brain doesn't have to hit the side of the skull internally. It just has to be shaken up enough to disturb its function. There's some disagreement as to exactly what happens, whether its a disruption of neurologic signal transmission, or structural damage at the microscopic level, both, or other mechanisms as well. However, the simplest definition of a concussion is altered brain function without obvious structural injury following a blow or jolt to the head.

When a CT scan or MRI show a structural brain injury like bleeding or bruise, the term of concussion is generally not used in favor of a more specific diagnosis like subdural hematoma or cerebral contusion.
 
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#40
#40
PineyBluff Vol said:
A hand to the face does not cause the brain to bounce from one side of the skull to the other. Now the hand to the face may cause the player to change direction and make contact with something hard (example) floor. I have dealt with many athletic injuries and many concussions, in my years of dealing with these, I cannot every remember a concussion caused by a hand. By the way, the fist is not a hand.
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You are so misinformed that is quite disconcerting that you may be treating athletes with head injuries. Please do some research before you are responsible for further injuries to an athlete.

Your blanket statement that an open hand can not cause a concussion is mind boggling. A common self-defense move is an open strike hit to the base of the nose or chin, which can easily knock a foe out (I.e. cause brain trauma).

What Causes a Knockout? -- Turtle Press

If someone runs full speed into an extended arm (open palm), you don't think that the resulting impact can displace the brain? This is a matter of angles and force. The claim that only floor contact can cause a concussion is oblivious to the facts, such as head to head contact being a leading cause of concussions in basketball and soccer.

Basketball and the brain: Concussions aren't just a risk in football - CBS News

Also, as for the claim that men b-ball players don't hit the floor, tell that to Paul George:

Paul George Confesses He Had A Concussion. How Many Games Will He Miss? - Forbes
 
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#41
#41
Madtown and Frozen,

Just a quick internet search fully supports your posts and blows any credence Piney claims on this subject.

The Merck Manual
Traumatic causes of TM perforation include

Insertion of objects into the ear canal purposely (eg, cotton swabs) or accidentally
Concussion caused by an explosion or open-handed slap across the ear
Head trauma (with or without basilar fracture)

Cdc.gov
A concussion is a mild form of traumatic brain injury (TBI) caused by a bump, blow, or jolt to the head. Concussions can also occur from a fall or a blow to the body that causes the head to move rapidly back and forth. Doctors may describe these injuries as “mild” because concussions are usually not life-threatening. Even so, their effects can be serious.

Healthline:
Assault can lead to a head injury. Being kicked, punched, or struck in the head can cause a concussion, closed or open brain injury. Damage varies with the force of the assault.


And this last on relating to actors...

Weapons of Choice
ContactStage Slap
From an on-line conversation I had with an advocate of contact stage slaps. This was my response …( FYI: since this was originally posted, more information has come out in medical journals indicating that during a slap, the brain moves violently against the skull, and can cause “coup” injuries. These can cause bleeding and sub-concussive brain cell damage.)message to morgan46@ehow:Thank you for your e-mail. I still want you to consider revising the way you teach the stage slap.I agree that most of the time the contact slap works. But it is the one percent of the time when it doesn’t that worries me, because when it goes wrong it goes horribly wrong.Here is a more full explanation of why I am so against it, followed by a detailed instruction of how to do a non-contact slap:There are some stage combat experts who insist that an actual contact slap to the face is perfectly safe as long as it is modified slightly. I have seen videos sold by these same professionals showing actor/students facing each other and trading slaps back and forth to prove the safety. Those experts are wrong. The contact slap is inherently unsafe. The slap to the face sends more actors to hospital emergency rooms every year than all of the other techniques of stage combat combined. This includes knife fights, broadsword fights, swinging from ropes, gunshots … all of the other techniques of stage combat combined.
 
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#43
#43
Orange_Mamba said:
She got hit when she was blindsided by a screen running full speed as I recall.
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IIRC Ariel was running full speed down the court, the FL girl came from the opposite direction, put out her arm to stop Ariel and pretty much clothes lined her...only in the head, not the throat. I may be wrong but two of us here remember it that way. If someone keeps recordings of the games, it would be nice if they would go back and look. I remember someone posting about links to prior years' games, maybe something like that would be available.

But she did get blindsided a lot last year; poor communication. That does not seem to be happening this year.
 
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#44
#44
Smallvol#1 said:
IIRC Ariel was running full speed down the court, the FL girl came from the opposite direction, put out her arm to stop Ariel and pretty much clothes lined her...only in the head, not the throat. I may be wrong but two of us here remember it that way. If someone keeps recordings of the games, it would be nice if they would go back and look. I remember someone posting about links to prior years' games, maybe something like that would be available.

But she did get blindsided a lot last year; poor communication. That does not seem to be happening this year.
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Yeah, I remember it she did get clothes lined. Jas was the one that got blindsided by a screen. That's how she got her concussion. She got got blindsided again when Izzy and her came back. Then went back out again when she took a hand to the face and hasn't been back since. They probably keep her out until tournament play.
 
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#47
#47
Smallvol#1 said:
IIRC Ariel was running full speed down the court, the FL girl came from the opposite direction, put out her arm to stop Ariel and pretty much clothes lined her...only in the head, not the throat. I may be wrong but two of us here remember it that way. If someone keeps recordings of the games, it would be nice if they would go back and look. I remember someone posting about links to prior years' games, maybe something like that would be available.

But she did get blindsided a lot last year; poor communication. That does not seem to be happening this year.
Click to expand...

That is how I remember it too
 
#48
#48
Thanks,Orange Mamba,for your work in finding that tape. Looks like Ariel got hit right across her eyebrows or bridge of her nose.Very strong blow,and much more force because of the movement in opposite directions.
 
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#49
#49
Good find on that AMass injury clip. To me, it doesn't look like a particularly hard blow. The angle is not good--but is sure looks like the hand/arm is coming up when it makes contact with Massengale's face. It looks like a glancing blow, going up, rather than a clothesline in which the arm/hand is moving horizontally and connects full-on with the face. It doesn't look like something that would keep a player out for 2 months, to be candid, but I didn't suffer the blow. Whatever--it's over and let's hope she stays healthy and that Jones gets healthy. To have two injuries like this in 2 years is freakish bad luck.
 
#50
#50
You've been on Massengale's case for months, complaining that she couldn't possibly be legitimately injured, and now you get in one last dig, and say "whatever"? Unbelievable. :banghead2:
 
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