Is this the end of Ahmadinejad?

#76
#76
Well, now he's said this in regards to NK....and honestly, I approve 100%.

"I don't want to speculate on hypotheticals," Obama said. "But I want ... to give assurances to the American people that the t's are crossed and the i's are dotted in terms of what might happen."

"What we're not going to do is to reward belligerence and provocation in the way that's been done in the past," he said.
 
#77
#77
volinbham said:
Is this still rope a dope? Is he meddling now?

Maybe he knows what he's doing but he seems a bit late in a response about the U.S. standing with those seeking to exercise self-determination rights.

I think this type statement could have been made from the beginning (as it was by other world leaders) without meddling.

This is the statement of U.S. principle that many (including myself) were hoping for earlier in the situation. This is now the second such incident where BO is last to chime (the other escapes me at the moment). I hope that is a sign of careful consideration and not a sign of underlying values.





Obama to Iran's leaders: Stop 'unjust' actions - Yahoo! News
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If Obama had made such statements at the same time other nations did, it would have came across more loudly because it is from the US. That is just the nature of how we are traditionally perceived over there.

And I don't think he is late with this either. He left it alone when the protesters were being allowed to make a point, it has only been recently when the Iranian government decided to crack down that he has upped the rhetoric a little. IMO, that is exactly the way he should play it. Stand with those wanting to excercise self-determination rights when those rights are being taken away. If they are being allowed, let let it play out on its own.

What do you mean by "underlying values"? That he may secretly side with the Iranian government in this case and that's why he didn't come with a stronger show of support for the protestors?
 
#79
#79
Well it looks like the protesters now have a face for their struggle. Apparently a young protester names Neda was killed by sharpshooters. It was caught on video and apparently they have taken her death photo and blended it with Obama's Hope and Change logo. I haven't been able to locate it, anybody else seen this?
 
#80
#80
rjd970 said:
What do you mean by "underlying values"? That he may secretly side with the Iranian government in this case and that's why he didn't come with a stronger show of support for the protestors?
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No. I mean that he is reluctant to make statements of principle that might be viewed as offensive.
 
#81
#81
KB5252 said:
Well it looks like the protesters now have a face for their struggle. Apparently a young protester names Neda was killed by sharpshooters. It was caught on video and apparently they have taken her death photo and blended it with Obama's Hope and Change logo. I haven't been able to locate it, anybody else seen this?
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I've seen the video. I haven't heard of Neda's face replacing Obamas on his logo, though?

The rally today is supposed to be in her honor.

We are trying to figure out if there is going to be a flashpoint achieved?
 
#82
#82
MontereyVol said:
I've seen the video. I haven't heard of Neda's face replacing Obamas on his logo, though?

The rally today is supposed to be in her honor.

We are trying to figure out if there is going to be a flashpoint achieved?
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It sounds like the Iranian forces have been on top of things. Unless something dramatic happens I would think it would fizzle out at the current rate.

Even if there is a revolution how do you see the result playing out for our interests? Would relations between our two countries be better?
 
#83
#83
KB5252 said:
It sounds like the Iranian forces have been on top of things. Unless something dramatic happens I would think it would fizzle out at the current rate.

Even if there is a revolution how do you see the result playing out for our interests? Would relations between our two countries be better?
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unless the reports I am hearing that the Revolutionary guards are now refusing direct orders, you're probably right this will die out. The protest never will achieve a greater purpose other than to spark other elements to become a little bolder.
 
#84
#84
MontereyVol said:
unless the reports I am hearing that the Revolutionary guards are now refusing direct orders, you're probably right this will die out. The protest never will achieve a greater purpose other than to spark other elements to become a little bolder.
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This is coming from sources not available to the average citizen? I haven't heard this. If this is true and any significant number of the RG are turned it could get much more interesting.
 
#85
#85
MontereyVol said:
unless the reports I am hearing that the Revolutionary guards are now refusing direct orders, you're probably right this will die out. The protest never will achieve a greater purpose other than to spark other elements to become a little bolder.
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RG refusing orders could make this thing pretty interesting.
 
#86
#86
The face of a revolution? A very pretty young lady. What a shame she had to die such a brutal death.

1_61_neda4_320.jpg
 
#87
#87
KB5252 said:
This is coming from sources not available to the average citizen? I haven't heard this. If this is true and any significant number of the RG are turned it could get much more interesting.
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This aside, I think when it comes down to it, we would be trading one hardliner for another. Mosouvi isn't exactly liberal.

Nevertheless, it would be a step in the right direction for Iran.
 
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#88
#88
KB5252 said:
This is coming from sources not available to the average citizen? I haven't heard this. If this is true and any significant number of the RG are turned it could get much more interesting.
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The way this is going down if you are watching attentively you probably are as well informed as the US government.

BTW, I have no idea if you are hearing the same stuff as me? (nothing we get is confirmed which sounds like what CNN is saying)

well, while I was typing this Fox news stated the same thing almost word for word.
 
#89
#89
This isn't about Mosouvi anymore, I think they want to get rid of the Basiji and possibly the Ayatollah.
 
#91
#91
MontereyVol said:
This isn't about Mosouvi anymore, I think they want to get rid of the Basiji and possibly the Ayatollah.
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Agreed, Mosouvi will have to defer to the will of the people if there is revolution. My question is could this possibly end up a Islamic fundamentalist state? I don't know much about the demographics of the people there.
 
#92
#92
KB5252 said:
Agreed, Mosouvi will have to defer to the will of the people if there is revolution. My question is could this possibly end up a Islamic fundamentalist state? I don't know much about the demographics of the people there.
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If the protest fails to ignite other fights within the regime then yeah its going to go more hardline then it already is. It wont last though, I think you're watching the beginning of an end of complete Islamic rule in the ME. Anyway you slice it Amedinijad is done.

Persians (Iranians) are the Aryan(sp?) race you would not be able to tell the difference between them and a white person in America or Europe, The youth love the American lifestyle but not our government. There is enormous respect for the US with them though.

There are numerous ethnicities in Iran that live mainly outside of Tehran mostly in the South if/when they join all h$ll will break lose.
 
#93
#93
I think this will take a civil war, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Ya, I hate the mullah's and all that bunch, but honestly we have NO idea how the "winners" will actually be. I have heard opinions that we should help any revolutionaries, and I just think we have been burned way too much in the past in that department. We may be replacing apples with apples here... so, so far I like the President's reaction to this and I too feel we should just step into this cautiously.
 
#94
#94
Obama was much stronger in his statements today yet when questioned why it took him so long he said he's been saying the same thing all along. Given the "nuance" commentary in this forum on the matter, it's clear that his statements today were different than his earlier statements. The question is why the change?
 
#95
#95
volinbham said:
Obama was much stronger in his statements today yet when questioned why it took him so long he said he's been saying the same thing all along. Given the "nuance" commentary in this forum on the matter, it's clear that his statements today were different than his earlier statements. The question is why the change?
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He did it in keeping with his campaign watchword.
 
#96
#96
volinbham said:
Obama was much stronger in his statements today yet when questioned why it took him so long he said he's been saying the same thing all along. Given the "nuance" commentary in this forum on the matter, it's clear that his statements today were different than his earlier statements. The question is why the change?
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The Iranian govenment starting to really crack down and suppress these people may have something to do with it. When protestors are dying and getting shot, I think it is absolutely his duty to say something in the defense of free elections. If people are being allowed to protest peacefully, like they basically have up until recently, the best thing for him to do is stay silent on the matter.
 
#97
#97
rjd970 said:
The Iranian govenment starting to really crack down and suppress these people may have something to do with it. When protestors are dying and getting shot, I think it is absolutely his duty to say something in the defense of free elections. If people are being allowed to protest peacefully, like they basically have up until recently, the best thing for him to do is stay silent on the matter.
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Check out his words from today. He's changed tone even though he won't admit it. I'm guessing it's pressure.

What he said today is what others said last week. No one is interfering - it's a matter of making a statement about what we believe in.

The BS about his commentary being seen driving the protests is absurd. The people on the streets know why they are out there. If he used the tone he used today last week it wouldn't have changed the protests but it might have helped clarify what we stand for around the world.

This reminds me of the incident in Georgia during the election. McCain came out right away condemning the actions while Obama held back and suggested McCain was being reckless. Eventually, Obama adopted McCain's position just as he did today with Iran.
 
#98
#98
Also questionable is the administration has not cancelled the invitations to Iranian diplomats for 4th of July celebrations. Given he condemned the actions of the Iranian government today, it might be wise to pull the invitation.
 
#99
#99
volinbham said:
Also questionable is the administration has not cancelled the invitations to Iranian diplomats for 4th of July celebrations. Given he condemned the actions of the Iranian government today, it might be wise to pull the invitation.
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he wants to make sure they see the Black Cat collection we have here.
 
#100
#100
volinbham said:
The BS about his commentary being seen driving the protests is absurd. The people on the streets know why they are out there. If he used the tone he used today last week it wouldn't have changed the protests but it might have helped clarify what we stand for around the world.

This reminds me of the incident in Georgia during the election. McCain came out right away condemning the actions while Obama held back and suggested McCain was being reckless. Eventually, Obama adopted McCain's position just as he did today with Iran.
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I don't think it would have changed to protests either, but my contention from the beginning is that coming out strong right away plays right into the Iranian government's charge that the US is meddling. It is inviting credibility for anybody that really wants to believe that nonsense. Not doing so shows the Mullah's and what not what idiots they really are.

While the protests are peacful, and no physical force is being used, why say anything? It is none of our business. Obama came out stronger today, but not changing what he has said all along, in a show of support. Even Iran knows that Obama is staying neutral enough to where this business of US interference is mute. I mean he specifically ordered US ships in the gulf to back away.

I think his change in posture is not pressure induced, but rather a consequence of what has changed on the ground in Tehran. His tone isn't driving the protest, the protests are driving his tone, IMHO.
 
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