Is this the end of Ahmadinejad?

#126
#126
KB5252 said:
There have most certainly been covert operations to encourage uprisings over the last few decades. The Iranian governments accusations of US meddling is not baseless by any stretch of the imagination.
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OrangeEmpire said:
You want links to amazon to see what books to read about covert operations in Iran?

Are you that lazy?

There is over 70 years worth of stuff to look at.
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Am I seeing some effort to portray this as analogous to the Bay of Pigs? That the U.S. has spent years encouraging revolution and Obama is now abandoning the poor students they recruited to do this to die at the hands of the Iranian military? Please.
 
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#127
#127
KB5252 said:
We can't. They will either protest and revolt until they win out, or they will revolt until they are crushed and decide it is hopeless. The comments coming from many European countries did not serve to ramp up their activities, this is their revolution. It did show that European countries were on the side of the people. Obama was a little late and and was reluctant to commit. These are the types of things that people in Iran will take note of.
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:hi:
 
#128
#128
droski said:
if obama goes through with his nuclear talks with ahmadinejad doesn't that legitimize ahmadinejad's administration?
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absolutely, and if there is revolution in the next few years (very good possibility) we will be in an even more tenuous position as far as diplomatic relations go. A lot of fences had started to mend over the past 6 to 7 years. Bush was not on board with this though, he put his diplomats in a very tough position, especially with the "Axis of Evil" comment. Even so, there had been some headway made (even after Bush's comment AE). Our perceived silence could hurt us with the next government, basically right back where we are now.
 
#129
#129
lawgator1 said:
Am I seeing some effort to portray this as analogous to the Bay of Pigs? That the U.S. has spent years encouraging revolution and Obama is now abandoning the poor students they recruited to do this to die at the hands of the Iranian military? Please.
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Similar in some ways but very different in others. We did not recruit these kids, they have been recruited by the people we put in place that laid the groundwork, we have encouraged revolution via the younger, more westernized population for decades. We have had many covert operators in that country disappear over the years. These people were actively seeking out people to spark the revolution.
 
#130
#130
lawgator1 said:
Am I seeing some effort to portray this as analogous to the Bay of Pigs? That the U.S. has spent years encouraging revolution and Obama is now abandoning the poor students they recruited to do this to die at the hands of the Iranian military? Please.
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What are you talking about?

Do you read what you want to see?


:banghead2:
 
#131
#131
lawgator1 said:
In the words of someone else:

I have yet to hear what possible good it would do for the President of the United States to encourage the protesters, except to give the Iranian regime a better excuse for killing more of them.
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Did his words yesterday encourage protesters?

Did France, GB, Congress, etc. encourage protesters?

What's wrong with saying you condemn the Iranian government for doing what it's doing (as BO said yesterday finally)?
 
#132
#132
OrangeEmpire said:
What are you talking about?

Do you read what you want to see?


:banghead2:
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No kidding. What BO finally said is what most have been looking for. It's not actively encouraging protesters. It's not even picking sides. It's standing up for rights (he know calls universal) to protest and self-determination. It's condemning government actions to squash the above.
 
#134
#134
I still don't get this insistence on Obama "finally" saying what he did yesterday condemning the government. There were peaceful protests in the beginning, and the Iranian government, while not liking it, pretty much let it happen. Obama came out and condemned the government when the guns and billy clubs came out.

And why should he make it a point to stand up for rights and self-determination in Iran when those rights weren't forcebaly infringed upon until a couple days ago?

...it's like people are trying to find something....anything...wrong with how he has handled this situation, when if fact he has been spot on with it.
 
#135
#135
rjd970 said:
I still don't get this insistence on Obama "finally" saying what he did yesterday condemning the government. There were peaceful protests in the beginning, and the Iranian government, while not liking it, pretty much let it happen. Obama came out and condemned the government when the guns and billy clubs came out.

And why should he make it a point to stand up for rights and self-determination in Iran when those rights weren't forcebaly infringed upon until a couple days ago?

...it's like people are trying to find something....anything...wrong with how he has handled this situation, when if fact he has been spot on with it.
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These right's were being infringed upon since the second day of protests, maybe even before that. It wasn't until the sniper shot that girl, and was replayed on TV, she was not the first person to be killed by gunfire and certainly wasn't the first to be beaten.
 
#136
#136
rjd970 said:
And why should he make it a point to stand up for rights and self-determination in Iran when those rights weren't forcebaly infringed upon until a couple days ago?

They were infringed upon the moment the "results" were announced.

...it's like people are trying to find something....anything...wrong with how he has handled this situation, when if fact he has been spot on with it.
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Disagree as stated repeatedly. You think he handled it perfectly - I disagree.
 
#137
#137
Hello from Glenwood Colorado.

looks like I am going to have to get one of those smart phone thingies to keep up with you guys?
 
#141
#141
Looks like the government in Iran is really starting to crack down. Reports of many people killed and beaten yesterday. Looks like they have also clamped down on the information coming out via twitter and the internet. Fewer and fewer protesters from the reports I've heard. Sounds like this revolution is going to fizzle out, for the time being anyway.
 
#142
#142
Looks like BO went too far...

Iran's Ahmadinejad compares Obama to Bush - Yahoo! News

TEHRAN (Reuters) – President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad accused Barack Obama on Thursday of behaving like his predecessor toward Iran and said there was not much point in talking to Washington unless the U.S. president apologized.
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"Mr Obama made a mistake to say those things ... our question is why he fell into this trap and said things that previously (former president George W.) Bush used to say," the semi-official Fars News Agency quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.
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To me this shows the absurdity of pussyfooting around the issue. His comments were still mild yet I'madinnerjacket flips out.
 
#143
#143
volinbham said:
Looks like BO went too far...

Iran's Ahmadinejad compares Obama to Bush - Yahoo! News





To me this shows the absurdity of pussyfooting around the issue. His comments were still mild yet I'madinnerjacket flips out.
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He tried to remain subtle and this is how he is repaid. Hope Obama learns a lesson from this, he has been criticized for not showing enough resolve in this situation already, now he will be criticized for this and for having it thrown right back in his face.
 
#144
#144
KB5252 said:
He tried to remain subtle and this is how he is repaid. Hope Obama learns a lesson from this, he has been criticized for not showing enough resolve in this situation already, now he will be criticized for this and for having it thrown right back in his face.
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Anyone want to start a count of how many times someone says I hope Obama learns....? At what point do we all just admit the guy has not a clue but a massive ego to compensate?
 
#146
#146
MontereyVol said:
Meh, I looked at those before I left and cant believe anyone can type on them. I guess I have fat fingers?
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I used Palm Treos for years...& the Crackberry's about the same size. It's like anything else...it just takes getting used to. In a couple of weeks you'd be flying around it.
 
#147
#147
lawgator1 said:
He was going to say that anyway. And of course he's trying to portray his opposition as in bed with the U.S.
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Exactly, I knew this, you knew this. Why didn't Obama come out and condemn the killings and beatings as the Europeans did? Now he gave his critics yet another reason to believe he is "soft" in regards to foreign policy. He tried to keep from offending the people he thought he would be negotiating with and now they have spit in his face.
 
#148
#148
lawgator1 said:
He was going to say that anyway. And of course he's trying to portray his opposition as in bed with the U.S.
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Precisely my point. I think BO set himself up for this one. By making a big deal of staying out of it then making a normal statement about it, Iran gets to claim he's meddling. The would claim that anyway and find ANY excuse they like for changing the terms of "talks".
 
#149
#149
rockytophigh said:
I used Palm Treos for years...& the Crackberry's about the same size. It's like anything else...it just takes getting used to. In a couple of weeks you'd be flying around it.
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I kinda wonder how well I can deal with one since I have mangled fingers (broken multiple times) so they aren't the most limber. But I will probably get one anyway, I want to be able to web surf on it and aside from the iphone it looks like the best deal.
 
#150
#150
TEHRAN (AFP) – Iran has arrested eight local British embassy staff, triggering London's fury on Sunday and further exacerbating tensions with the West over the post-election turmoil in the Islamic republic.

The latest backlash against what Iranian leaders have branded as foreign "meddling" came as opposition leaders continued to defy the regime, rejecting a panel set up to hold a partial recount in the hotly-disputed presidential vote.

More than 2,000 people are still in detention and hundreds more are missing across Iran since a government crackdown on protests, the Paris-based International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) said on Sunday.

On Sunday, police dispersed about 3,000 supporters of opposition leader Mir Hussein Mousavi who defied a ban on public gatherings in Tehran, witnesses said.

The witness also spoke of a "minor confrontation" between police and the demonstrators who had gathered around Ghoba mosque to mark the anniversary of a prominent cleric killed in a bombing 28 years ago.

Iran has repeatedly accused Britain and the United States of stoking the unrest that swept the country after the June 12 election that returned hardliner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to power amid complaints it was rigged.

The Fars news agency said the eight staff members were arrested for having a "considerable role" in the riots.

Iran's intelligence minister Gholam Hossein Mohseni Ejeie confirmed the arrests and accused the British embassy of sending local staff "undercover among rioters in order to push its own agenda," IRNA news agency reported....
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More here: Iran arrests British embassy staff for 'role in riots'
 
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