Israel vs Palestinians

[Orangeslice13]

“This is the result of having bad Islamists in power for years, like Hamas, and it has dragged us back 200 years,” Sami continued, expressing frustration with the governing group in Gaza and the toll of ongoing hostilities. “Israel also bears responsibility for our suffering. I have been imprisoned in Israeli jails, and we are caught in a never-ending cycle of violence. Now, we fight for scraps of bread and live in tents.”

Gazan workers blame Hamas: 'They've taken us back 200 years' - interview

Gazan workers who were formerly employed in Israel share stories of hardship amid Gaza’s devastation, with lives and jobs lost under siege and war.

m.jpost.com

 

[NashVol11]

And who’s accountable for the ones who are not?
Those shooting at their enemies, or the militants using their supposed innocent people as shields.

There weren’t 45K human shields, the people killing them are responsible for their own actions

 

[NashVol11]

Hamas killed 815 civilians on 10/7, Israel has killed somewhere north of 30 THOUSAND but only the first group gets wept for. Just not sure how you get there without valuing certain civilian lives more than others

 

[Orangeslice13]

, the people killing them are responsible for their own actions

They are.
They have taken a hard look at it and decided that they are going to kill those people who killed their families regardless of where those shitbags are hiding. They are prioritizing their own lives and the lives of their people over the shitbags and the people that allow the shitbags to hide behind them.
Not at all how I would have prosecuted this thing but the results will be the same.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Hamas killed 815 civilians on 10/7, Israel has killed somewhere north of 30 THOUSAND but only the first group gets wept for. Just not sure how you get there without valuing certain civilian lives more than others

There will only be one at the end of this thing. Both sides agree on that fact. Our attempts to make sense of it from over here are not really relevant to those on either side of this fight

 

[bamawriter]

There weren’t 45K human shields, the people killing them are responsible for their own actions

How many of the 45k were militants?

 

[NashVol11]

How many of the 45k were militants?

Weird thing for you to harp on because as far as we know, very few of them were

 

[just bob]

Weird thing for you to harp on because as far as we know, very few of them were

 

[Orangeslice13]

Hamas killed 815 civilians on 10/7, Israel has killed somewhere north of 30 THOUSAND but only the first group gets wept for. Just not sure how you get there without valuing certain civilian lives more than others

I’ve never understood the rationale of limiting a retaliation for an attack.
Did we kill too many Japanese in WW2 in response to Pearl Harbor? Or was enough life lost to justify an all out war?
Where is the line?
800- you can only kill 801 in response?
10,000- all out war and complete destruction is now justified?

Is just a strange argument to make

 

[NashVol11]

I’ve never understood the rationale of limiting a retaliation for an attack.
Did we kill too many Japanese in WW2 in response to Pearl Harbor? Or was enough life lost to justify an all out war?
Where is the line?
800- you can only kill 801 in response?
10,000- all out war and complete destruction is now justified?

Is just a strange argument to make

I don't think that's strange at all. 9/11 didn't justify us nuking every country in the Middle East and killing millions of civilians. You can't just say anything goes every time something bad happens to you

 

[just bob]

Hamas killed 815 civilians on 10/7, Israel has killed somewhere north of 30 THOUSAND but only the first group gets wept for. Just not sure how you get there without valuing certain civilian lives more than others

 

[jp1]

I don't think that's strange at all. 9/11 didn't justify us nuking every country in the Middle East and killing millions of civilians. You can't just say anything goes every time something bad happens to you

Next time make up an analogy that is at least in the ballpark of what he said.

 

[EasternVol]

“This is the result of having bad Islamists in power for years, like Hamas, and it has dragged us back 200 years,” Sami continued, expressing frustration with the governing group in Gaza and the toll of ongoing hostilities. “Israel also bears responsibility for our suffering. I have been imprisoned in Israeli jails, and we are caught in a never-ending cycle of violence. Now, we fight for scraps of bread and live in tents.”

Gazan workers blame Hamas: 'They've taken us back 200 years' - interview

Gazan workers who were formerly employed in Israel share stories of hardship amid Gaza’s devastation, with lives and jobs lost under siege and war.

m.jpost.com

Yeah the Palestinians have and have had very bad leadership all around. And a good deal of that has been exacerbated by Israeli manipulation. Hamas you say? Now there's a good example, them being supported by Likud for years. It would be ideal, but not likely for the Palestinians to get leadership that actually worked in their people's best interests.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I don't think that's strange at all. 9/11 didn't justify us nuking every country in the Middle East and killing millions of civilians. You can't just say anything goes every time something bad happens to you

That doesn’t clarify anything though.
9/11 definitely justified our response. Albeit not at the right people imo and we definitely should have come home after “mission accomplished”

You think Israel is over the line. I do not, though I would have handled things way differently. I’m on record as to what I would have done.

As you don’t like what they’re doing…..how would you have responded if you were in charge and your people had been attacked?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Yeah the Palestinians have and have had very bad leadership all around. And a good deal of that has been exacerbated by Israeli manipulation. Hamas you say? Now there's a good example, them being supported by Likud for years. It would be ideal, but not likely for the Palestinians to get leadership that actually worked in their people's best interests.

Agreed
The people of Gaza have greatly Fed themselves by putting up with a leadership that is hellbent on their own destruction

 

[bamawriter]

Weird thing for you to harp on because as far as we know, very few of them were

What is "very few"?

 

[Carl Pickens]

That doesn’t clarify anything though.
9/11 definitely justified our response. Albeit not at the right people imo and we definitely should have come home after “mission accomplished”

You think Israel is over the line. I do not, though I would have handled things way differently. I’m on record as to what I would have done.

As you don’t like what they’re doing…..how would you have responded if you were in charge and your people had been attacked?

He’d have balled up in the fetal position and cried.

 

[85SugarVol]

I’ve never understood the rationale of limiting a retaliation for an attack.
Did we kill too many Japanese in WW2 in response to Pearl Harbor? Or was enough life lost to justify an all out war?
Where is the line?
800- you can only kill 801 in response?
10,000- all out war and complete destruction is now justified?

Is just a strange argument to make

I reject entirely the notion of “proportional response”.

My response to being attacked would be overwhelmingly disproportionate in nature.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I reject entirely the notion of “proportional response”.

My response to being attacked would be overwhelmingly disproportionate in nature.

If it’s not clear…..so do I

 

[marcusluvsvols]

I reject entirely the notion of “proportional response”.

My response to being attacked would be overwhelmingly disproportionate in nature.

Exactly. Guy next door kicks you in the balls, you dont kick him in the shins. You knock his teeth out to make sure that doesn't happen again. (Except in this case its about the 1000th time the guy has put his hands on you for the analogy to be accurate...AND he walked right up in YOUR yard to attack you so Castle Doctrine certainly applies.)

 

[NashVol11]

Exactly. Guy next door kicks you in the balls, you dont kick him in the shins. You knock his teeth out to make sure that doesn't happen again. (Except in this case its about the 1000th time the guy has put his hands on you for the analogy to be accurate...AND he walked right up in YOUR yard to attack you so Castle Doctrine certainly applies.)

Not sure this is great logic for 815 civilians making you weep and 30K+ civilians making you shrug and call for more. Most civilians in Palestine didn’t kick anyone in the balls, just don’t understand talking about them as if they don’t matter or aren’t people

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Not sure this is great logic for 815 civilians making you weep and 30K+ civilians making you shrug and call for more. Most civilians in Palestine didn’t kick anyone in the balls, just don’t understand talking about them as if they don’t matter or aren’t people

They overwhelmingly support Hamas

 

[NashVol11]

They overwhelmingly support Hamas

That’s it? They ambiguously “support” their own government so f*** it, kill a million of them? People’s brains are broken

 

[NashVol11]

Next time make up an analogy that is at least in the ballpark of what he said.

Next time read the entire post you’re quoting, 9/11 is well beyond that ballpark

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

That’s it? They ambiguously “support” their own government so f*** it, kill a million of them? People’s brains are broken

You're absolutely right.