It’s time to stop sending Butch checks...

#101
#101
The circumstances with Arkansas and Bielema are a little different than Tennessee's with Butch Jones. The Patriots are paying Bielema well below what the average defensive line coach in the NFL makes in order for Bielema to continue receiving checks from a previous employer. I'm not a lawyer but that sounds like Bielema (with assistance from the Pats) is violating the spirit of the agreement... and Arkansas has empirical evidence to prove it. The coming law suit will probably allow Arkansas to deduct the average annual NFL defensive line coach's salary from the Bielema buyout. Butch Jones, however, is only being employed to perform duties that graduate assistants are normally responsible for and graduate assistants don't even make close to $35,000 per year. We will still be on the hook for Butch, as long as he is just filling Gatorade buckets for Saban. Although, taking less money from an employer in order to continue being paid by a former employer is low rent. This isn't doing wonders for Butch's reputation in the industry, whether it's a good business decision or not.
 
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#102
#102
BowlBrother85 said:
The circumstances with Arkansas and Bielema are a little different than Tennessee's with Butch Jones. The Patriots are paying Bielema well below what the average defensive line coach in the NFL makes in order for Bielema to continue receiving checks from a previous employer. I'm not a lawyer but that sounds like Bielema (with assistance from the Pats) is violating the spirit of the agreement... and Arkansas has empirical evidence to prove it. The coming law suit will probably allow Arkansas to deduct the average annual NFL defensive line coach's salary from the Bielema buyout. Butch Jones, however, is only being employed to perform duties that graduate assistants are normally responsible for and graduate assistants don't even make close to $35,000 per year. We will still be on the hook for Butch, as long as he is just filling Gatorade buckets for Saban. Although, taking less money from an employer in order to continue being paid by a former employer is low rent. This isn't doing wonders for Butch's reputation in the industry, whether it's a good business decision or not.
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Very good point. Like I said it's a long shot and stranger things have happened.
 
#103
#103
imw8n4u said:
You guys are missing the real story, those cheating Patriots are party to this by not paying Bielema the going rate. Same for Alabama, Butch is obviously coaching and should be compensated as such.
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Botch May have arranged their light show or the smoke machine. I don’t think he’s coaching much. That would be a mistake.
 
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#104
#104
BowlBrother85 said:
The circumstances with Arkansas and Bielema are a little different than Tennessee's with Butch Jones. The Patriots are paying Bielema well below what the average defensive line coach in the NFL makes in order for Bielema to continue receiving checks from a previous employer. I'm not a lawyer but that sounds like Bielema (with assistance from the Pats) is violating the spirit of the agreement... and Arkansas has empirical evidence to prove it. The coming law suit will probably allow Arkansas to deduct the average annual NFL defensive line coach's salary from the Bielema buyout. Butch Jones, however, is only being employed to perform duties that graduate assistants are normally responsible for and graduate assistants don't even make close to $35,000 per year. We will still be on the hook for Butch, as long as he is just filling Gatorade buckets for Saban. Although, taking less money from an employer in order to continue being paid by a former employer is low rent. This isn't doing wonders for Butch's reputation in the industry, whether it's a good business decision or not.
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Bielema also had a clause in his contract that said he could make $50k/year and it wouldn't affect his buyout payment. Arkansas is still going to make the case that he and the Patriots are trying to keep the school paying the buyout with the way his contract is structured.

Butch has a contractual obligation to find a "comparable position", stated as a college head or assistant coach position as soon as is reasonably possible.

Two years is more than reasonable. If he chooses to stay an analyst at Alabama, he can do so, but UT is not obligated to continue to pay those damages if he chooses to not seek out a HC or assistant position.
 
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#105
#105
TJVol95 said:
Botch May have arranged their light show or the smoke machine. I don’t think he’s coaching much. That would be a mistake.
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If the argument is: he isn't coaching much in Alabama...come on, he didn't coach much in Tennessee!!! Now, if he were establishing a "champions of life" club, or some sort of masonry class (brick building), we may have an argument, but his lack of coaching there vs here isn't one of them....just saying;)
 
#106
#106
I40flyer said:
If the argument is: he isn't coaching much in Alabama...come on, he didn't coach much in Tennessee!!! Now, if he were establishing a "champions of life" club, or some sort of masonry class (brick building), we may have an argument, but his lack of coaching there vs here isn't one of them....just saying;)
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Light show and smoke machine. He’s a clever marketer and catch phrases guy. That’s what he’s getting paid for.
 
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#107
#107
BeardedVol said:
Bielema also had a clause in his contract that said he could make $50k/year and it wouldn't affect his buyout payment. Arkansas is still going to make the case that he and the Patriots are trying to keep the school paying the buyout with the way his contract is structured.

Butch has a contractual obligation to find a "comparable position", stated as a college head or assistant coach position as soon as is reasonably possible.

Two years is more than reasonable. If he chooses to stay an analyst at Alabama, he can do so, but UT is not obligated to continue to pay those damages if he chooses to not seek out a HC or assistant position.
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I wasn't aware of that. Saban has acknowledged that Butch Jones turned down an assistant coaching position at Maryland. Presumably, that was because he still wanted the buyout money in full from Tennessee. That would also seem to be a violation of the spirit of his contract. I don't know if I would recommend stopping the buyout payments or not, though. Yes, Butch is in the wrong... but you also don't want to get the reputation for not honoring a contract if you are in Tennessee's shoes.
 
#109
#109
BowlBrother85 said:
I wasn't aware of that. Saban has acknowledged that Butch Jones turned down an assistant coaching position at Maryland. Presumably, that was because he still wanted the buyout money in full from Tennessee. That would also seem to be a violation of the spirit of his contract. I don't know if I would recommend stopping the buyout payments or not, though. Yes, Butch is in the wrong... but you also don't want to get the reputation for not honoring a contract if you are in Tennessee's shoes.
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Two years is more than reasonable for him to find a coaching position. UT should make him prove that he's tried to do so and failed if he wants to stay an analyst and keep getting paid under the liquidated damages clause of his contract. If he's actually turned a position down, then there's little argument to be had.
 
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#110
#110
I don't like Butch & felt he set our program back several years, but if I had a job where I could observe how Saban runs his program from the inside & get paid mullions by a rival SEC school it would take legal action & a final decision from a judge to make me leave !!! If he's willing to learn he might turn out to be a decent head coach someday. I wish him well & hope we get a chance to humiliate his sorry arse @ his next Head coaching job !!! UT bean counters should have never given him more than a 2 year contract; it is their fault that Nickey & Butch are rubbing our face in it & we should forget about the Bamers & Butch; let them laugh & spend their millions !!! We have a coach that out coached Saban a week & a half ago & in the near future we will have the players to compete with every team we meet on the gridiron !!!!!!
 
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#111
#111
mickey1969 said:
I don't like Butch & felt he set our program back several years, but if I had a job where I could observe how Saban runs his program from the inside & get paid mullions by a rival SEC school it would take legal action & a final decision from a judge to make me leave !!! If he's willing to learn he might turn out to be a decent head coach someday. I wish him well & hope we get a chance to humiliate his sorry arse @ his next Head coaching job !!! UT bean counters should have never given him more than a 2 year contract; it is their fault that Nickey & Butch are rubbing our face in it & we should forget about the Bamers & Butch; let them laugh & spend their millions !!! We have a coach that out coached Saban a week & a half ago & in the near future we will have the players to compete with every team we meet on the gridiron !!!!!!
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First off, "2 year contract", are you kidding me? He should never have been hired from the start, not even a two month contract. It isn't really boy butch that is to blame here, it is the pack of fools that gave him the contract in the first place. Our brain trust at UT, doesn't seem to understand the concept of, "High performance=High pay, while Low performance =Low pay", and they haven't learned their lesson yet.
 
#113
#113
BowlBrother85 said:
I wasn't aware of that. Saban has acknowledged that Butch Jones turned down an assistant coaching position at Maryland. Presumably, that was because he still wanted the buyout money in full from Tennessee. That would also seem to be a violation of the spirit of his contract. I don't know if I would recommend stopping the buyout payments or not, though. Yes, Butch is in the wrong... but you also don't want to get the reputation for not honoring a contract if you are in Tennessee's shoes.
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I don’t understand why it matters WHERE your money’s coming from...as long as you receive the full amount. Is it a tax issue? Tennessee doesn’t have the state income tax, so I could see that. Otherwise $200,000 from another school to be an assistant is still $200,000 bumped up by the Tennessee buyout.
 
#114
#114
vols40 said:
Lol. If you don't take a stand nothing ever changes. These coaches are holding universities hostage. Fight back. And future coaches I get that. But I also get that maybe just maybe it's time to take a stand.
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Coaches have had the upper hand for a long time. If UT stops paying Butch (who has Jimmy Sexton as an agent)....so does Fulmer, IIRC. Anyway, good luck trying to hire anyone remotely connected to Sexton down the road. Just pay it and next time be more clear in the terms.
 
#115
#115
look. I agree in principle, but the reality is that Butch had ALL the leverage in the contract - and that stands the same now as when he was fired. The UT admin was desperate and signed on to a contract that had very little or no parity. We are paying for that mis-management, and we will most likely pay out the contract.
 
#116
#116
Boca Vol said:
Coaches have had the upper hand for a long time. If UT stops paying Butch (who has Jimmy Sexton as an agent)....so does Fulmer, IIRC. Anyway, good luck trying to hire anyone remotely connected to Sexton down the road. Just pay it and next time be more clear in the terms.
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I don’t know how much clearer the language could’ve been. Maybe just skip the offsetting clause...since it’s practically unenforceable.
 
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#118
#118
butchna said:
I don’t know how much clearer the language could’ve been. Maybe just skip the offsetting clause...since it’s practically unenforceable.
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The protesters seem to have glossed over the term "reasonable" and have the mind-set that Butch HAD to accept any job offered to him. To your point they are unenforceable for the most part.
 
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#119
#119
Boca Vol said:
The protesters seem to have glossed over the term "reasonable" and have the mind-set that Butch HAD to accept any job offered to him. To your point they are unenforceable for the most part.
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Two years is a reasonable amount of time. Butch can choose to take or not take any job he wants, but under the contract he signed, he agreed to make make reasonable efforts as soon as possible to obtain "comparable employment" in order to mitigate the universities obligation to pay liquidated damages; comparable position under the contract is a HC or assistance at the college level.

If he chooses to turn down coaching position and stay an analyst at Alabama, that is up to him, but in doing so, he is in breach of contract, and UT is not obligated to continue paying liquidated damages.
 
#123
#123
Boca Vol said:
Coaches have had the upper hand for a long time. If UT stops paying Butch (who has Jimmy Sexton as an agent)....so does Fulmer, IIRC. Anyway, good luck trying to hire anyone remotely connected to Sexton down the road. Just pay it and next time be more clear in the terms.
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Screw James Sexton. And I think you are right these schools need to be more specific on the contract on what buyouts or potential buy outs will be.
 
#124
#124
Volinnooga said:
I've seen everything on VN; even legal analysts. This place is amazing.
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Next week, we have two new threads starting, one on the Religious controversy of free will vs predestination and a second on Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and its place in the theory of quantum mechanics.

We may not know much around here but we sure THINK we do (self included) 😂
 
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