It’s time to stop sending Butch checks...

#151
#151
butchna said:
You’re thinking jury trial? It’s going to be an arbitrator or judge. They’ll follow the law. Lot of legalese language. I doubt he’d agree to dropping a cent. This is all fun fan speculation. University had already moved on imo.
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Your correct it could be a bench trial but once UT runs some of the witnesses up there against Coach Jones, he couldn’t get a job at Walmart.
 
#152
#152
Tarkus said:
The reason Arkansas is able to withhold payments is because Bielema's contract stated that he must pursue jobs of equal pay and he hasn't pursued any jobs of equal pay. He hasn't interviewed with anyone. So, he's in breach of contract. The Arkansas athletics department negotiated a better deal than UT did with Butch.
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Not a big surprise, is it?
 
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#153
#153
BreatheUT said:
I wonder if Saban says things like, "Now you see crew cut over there? He's an individual that is getting better splicing the film and you can visibly see the maturation."
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I believe the only thing Saban says to him is "I said cream and TWO SUGARS!" or "I'll do the tuna on wheat today." Occasionally he likely looks at him with disgust and shakes his head while mumbling "mooch."
 
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#154
#154
BeardedVol said:
So someone like John Currie, who specifically cited section 3.1.4 of Butch's contract and his obligation to mitigate the university's responsibility to pay out liquidated damages by seeking out comparable employment, as "soon as practicable"? His contact is relatively straightforward, I've dealt with more complicated SLAs in my career.
Butch-Letter.jpg
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Again, note the third paragraph of the letter you posted "your obligation to use your reasonable best efforts to mitigate... by making reasonable and diligent efforts..."

I'm not sure what's so hard for you to understand here. Further, with the change in leadership at UT, do you not think the University would have gone after this long ago if they thought they had a reasonable chance of getting a ruling in their favor? They didn't because, again, neither side finds that to be a legitimate argument. If Butch had sat on his ass and done nothing for two years, they'd have a case. He interviewed for the Rutgers head coaching job literally today, a trip which, again in the minds of people that actually matter in this discussion, satisfies the "reasonable best efforts" language in the contract.

Also ask yourself this: If there was a reasonable chance of success in getting a buyout terminated, why is it that Beliema is the first coach other than those fired for cause that has actually been called on his bluff?
 
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#155
#155
DeerPark12 said:
Again, note the third paragraph of the letter you posted "your obligation to use your reasonable best efforts to mitigate... by making reasonable and diligent efforts..."
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Easy:
I know Butch had job opportunities after last year and he decided he wanted to stay here. -Nick Saban

Butch chose to go to Alabama and be an analyst for a year, which even at the time, could have been considered a breach of contract, as his contract states:
butchemployment.png

So, even if we give him a pass on year one at Alabama, Nick let slip that Butch had coaching offers, and chose to stay at Alabama, which is a clear violation, as the only jobs that satisfy section 3.1.4, are head or assistant coaching positions at the collegiate level or higher. Two years is more than enough time to give someone to be considered a "reasonable" amount of time, especially since he's turned down coaching positions.

You really should educate yourself on Butch's contract. I promise you, it's not difficult to read and understand, and as far as contracts go, very straightforward.

DeerPark12 said:
I'm not sure what's so hard for you to understand here. Further, with the change in leadership at UT, do you not think the University would have gone after this long ago if they thought they had a reasonable chance of getting a ruling in their favor? They didn't because, again, neither side finds that to be a legitimate argument. If Butch had sat on his ass and done nothing for two years, they'd have a case. He interviewed for the Rutgers head coaching job literally today, a trip which, again in the minds of people that actually matter in this discussion, satisfies the "reasonable best efforts" language in the contract.

Also ask yourself this: If there was a reasonable chance of success in getting a buyout terminated, why is it that Beliema is the first coach other than those fired for cause that has actually been called on his bluff?
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I don't know why Fulmer hasn't pursued the issue, maybe because he is a first time AD, and doesn't know he can? Maybe he is overwhelmed with his duties? Maybe he feels some sort of camaraderie with Butch since they were both fired by UT? I can't say, As to why Beliema is the first? He isn't. Vandy sued DiNardo, Kansas is refusing to pay Beaty forcing him to file suite.

Not every coach has guaranteed buyout clauses in their contract like Dooley had in his where he could not seek further employment, and had no conditions tied to liquidated damages; that's not the case with Butch. He has a legal obligation under the terms of the contract he has signed, and by turning down coaching jobs to stay an analyst at Alabama, he has breached the terms of that contract, and the university should be under no obligation to continue to pay him liquidated damages as such.
 
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#156
#156
The question in my mind is, "seeking comparable employment". To me that doesn't just mean Coaching or Head Coaching, but at the same rate of pay. For most people, comparable employment means same rate of pay for the same amount of work, not just a title. The Great UT contract negotiators, must not have graduated for BAMA's law school (#3 public University Law School in the USA). As usual, we have a poor contract. This-in my mind is why we don't start spending more money on legal fees, the smart outside lawyers (not the ones that wrote the hiring contract) have told the AD, can't win. We still owe boy butch in the neighborhood of 8.2 million dollars, we might see I he'll agree to a reduced amount, if we were to pay him a lump sum. Even if it were a million less, that would be one million Tennessee dollars not going to a coach for BAMA.
 
#158
#158
I40flyer said:
The question in my mind is, "seeking comparable employment". To me that doesn't just mean Coaching or Head Coaching, but at the same rate of pay. For most people, comparable employment means same rate of pay for the same amount of work, not just a title. The Great UT contract negotiators, must not have graduated for BAMA's law school (#3 public University Law School in the USA). As usual, we have a poor contract. This-in my mind is why we don't start spending more money on legal fees, the smart outside lawyers (not the ones that wrote the hiring contract) have told the AD, can't win. We still owe boy butch in the neighborhood of 8.2 million dollars, we might see I he'll agree to a reduced amount, if we were to pay him a lump sum. Even if it were a million less, that would be one million Tennessee dollars not going to a coach for BAMA.
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Comparable employment is literally spelled out in his contract as a head or assistant coach at the collegiate or professional level. It's not determined by pay. I linked the contract and a picture of the relevant section in my post above.
 
#159
#159
imw8n4u said:
May not be the best time to bring this up, but I really hope we don't give Pruitt a big raise and extension after this season. Even if we make a bowl, he needs another season to prove we are really headed in the right direction before a big reward. We always seem to fire coaches the year after their extension and buyout is increased.
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I agree with you, but I have a feeling he gets a raise and extension at the end of this yr. if we make a bowl game.
 
#163
#163
BeardedVol said:
Easy:
I know Butch had job opportunities after last year and he decided he wanted to stay here. -Nick Saban

Butch chose to go to Alabama and be an analyst for a year, which even at the time, could have been considered a breach of contract, as his contract states:
butchemployment.png

So, even if we give him a pass on year one at Alabama, Nick let slip that Butch had coaching offers, and chose to stay at Alabama, which is a clear violation, as the only jobs that satisfy section 3.1.4, are head or assistant coaching positions at the collegiate level or higher. Two years is more than enough time to give someone to be considered a "reasonable" amount of time, especially since he's turned down coaching positions.

You really should educate yourself on Butch's contract. I promise you, it's not difficult to read and understand, and as far as contracts go, very straightforward.
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As I've said several times here, I was intimately familiar with Butch's contract when he was here and after he left. I also know what the University's official interpretation of the contract and the clause in question is, and I've stated it in this thread.


BeardedVol said:
I don't know why Fulmer hasn't pursued the issue, maybe because he is a first time AD, and doesn't know he can? Maybe he is overwhelmed with his duties? Maybe he feels some sort of camaraderie with Butch since they were both fired by UT? I can't say, As to why Beliema is the first? He isn't. Vandy sued DiNardo, Kansas is refusing to pay Beaty forcing him to file suite.
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DiNardo was sued for the buyout that HE owed Vandy for leaving for LSU, not the other way around. He tried to claim that LSU was a better job, which it is in reality but not contractually, than Vanderbilt and therefore he didn't owe his buyout. He was ordered to by the courts.

Beaty is suing to get his buyout because Kansas is now arguing that he was fired for cause because of NCAA violations that they have yet to disclose.

Just like Arkansas, those are two completely different situations than Tennessee and Butch.
 
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#164
#164
DeerPark12 said:
As I've said several times here, I was intimately familiar with Butch's contract when he was here and after he left. I also know what the University's official interpretation of the contract and the clause in question is, and I've stated it in this thread.




DiNardo was sued for the buyout that HE owed Vandy for leaving for LSU, not the other way around. He tried to claim that LSU was a better job, which it is in reality but not contractually, than Vanderbilt and therefore he didn't owe his buyout. He was ordered to by the courts.

Beaty is suing to get his buyout because Kansas is now arguing that he was fired for cause because of NCAA violations that they have yet to disclose.

Just like Arkansas, those are two completely different situations than Tennessee and Butch.
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DiNardo was sued for being in breach of contract. Arkansas believes Beilema has breached his contract. Kansas believes that Beaty violated his contract and are opting not to pay him, and force him to file suite.

This idea that you seem to be beholden to, that only the coach can seek redress under the contract, is bizarre. You've either not read Butch's contract, or you are willfully ignoring the obligations spelled out in it, and reiterated by Currie in his termination letter.
 
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#170
#170
zydane47 said:
Unless he got paid the same or more while he was here then we would still pay the difference.

So here’s hoping he at least get paid the same he was getting here
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And if it's less then we are saving a little. Or if it's less we stop paying him like Arkansas did.
 
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#173
#173
Butch just interviewed with Rutgers for their head coaching job. As sad as this stat is, if hired he would be the first head coach we fired to get another head coaching job at a P5 program since...a long time. Fulmer never got another head coaching job. Kiffin quit but hasn’t had another P5 head coaching job since getting fired by USC. Dooley went NFL WR coach to P5 OC.

As a side note we have at least 3 former coordinators and assistant coaches as P5 head coaches today.
 
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