it seems the cali judge has a good reason to overturn.

#51
#51
CSpindizzy said:
Did I say that? No I didn't. It's amazing how you just blaze away typing and do not bother reading. Not sure how you got that I was claiming Mormons were against Prop 8 for me just saying they got involved on the issue. :crazy:
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Involved how?
 
#52
#52
It was a bad ruling regardless of what or who the judge is.

States have a right to define the conditions for licenses any way they choose. No "license" is a "right". License by definition is a permit to do something under a certain set of conditions.

It is clearly within the right of legislatures or in this case the people to determine who qualifies for a marriage licenses and under what conditions.
 
#53
#53
sjt18 said:
It was a bad ruling regardless of what or who the judge is.

States have a right to define the conditions for licenses any way they choose. No "license" is a "right". License by definition is a permit to do something under a certain set of conditions.

It is clearly within the right of legislatures or in this case the people to determine who qualifies for a marriage licenses and under what conditions.
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Even if it is discriminatory?
 
#54
#54
IPorange said:
Even if it is discriminatory?
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Many laws and especially licenses are "discriminatory".

You can't marry a close relative. You can't marry more than one person. You can't marry an underaged child. You can't marry an animal. You can't hunt out of season. You can't drive any speed you want. You can't even drive whatever vehicle you want. You can't run any business you want anywhere you want.

Licenses by definition "discriminate".
 
#55
#55
until heterosexuals start to take marriage seriously (50% divorce rate), why should i care if gays want to marry?
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#58
#58
Owned

sjt18 said:
Many laws and especially licenses are "discriminatory".

You can't marry a close relative. You can't marry more than one person. You can't marry an underaged child. You can't marry an animal. You can't hunt out of season. You can't drive any speed you want. You can't even drive whatever vehicle you want. You can't run any business you want anywhere you want.

Licenses by definition "discriminate".
Click to expand...
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#60
#60
CSpindizzy said:
This is one reason the Mormons became quite involved in the issue.
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IPorange said:
Are you claiming the Mormon church is against Prop 8?
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CSpindizzy said:
Did I say that? No I didn't. It's amazing how you just blaze away typing and do not bother reading. Not sure how you got that I was claiming Mormons were against Prop 8 for me just saying they got involved on the issue. :crazy:
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I'd still like to hear you elaborate on this. I mean, I know I'm just amazingly "blazing away" over here and "not reading," but there isn't much for me to go on and for some reason you didn't immediately explain what you were referring to.
 
#62
#62
Rasputin_Vol said:
until heterosexuals start to take marriage seriously (50% divorce rate), why should i care if gays want to marry?
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Those pesky heterosexuals are the ones making gay babies too!
 
#64
#64
volfanjustin said:
You always have been one to support activist judges over the will of the people.
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And mob rule is often contrary to rule of law. Either stand behind law and order or mob rule, just be honest with yourself.
 
#65
#65
KB5252 said:
And mob rule is often contrary to rule of law. Either stand behind law and order or mob rule, just be honest with yourself.
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I'll throw out the example that seems to have its own key on certain posters' keyboards....segregation? Silly African Americans....they should have just stood behind the rule of law.

Amazing how rule of law can be manipulated and used by both sides. It's "fight the unjust laws" until the change is made. Then it's "obey you lawbreaking unpatriotic troublemakers!"
 
#66
#66
gcbvol said:
Solid.
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I have had some input from a couple of gay family members as well as others, just wanted to know your perspective as a gay person. Do you believe being gay is a choice, determined by genetic make up, or perhaps hormonal or some type of chemistry difference, or some type of combination in some cases?

If this question is too personal I apologize in advance. I had discussions like these with family and friends and it helped me understand these issues from their perspective.
 
#67
#67
KB5252 said:
I have had some input from a couple of gay family members as well as others, just wanted to know your perspective as a gay person. Do you believe being gay is a choice, determined by genetic make up, or perhaps hormonal or some type of chemistry difference, or some type of combination in some cases?

If this question is too personal I apologize in advance. I had discussions like these with family and friends and it helped me understand these issues from their perspective.
Click to expand...

No too personal at all. I can answer this only from my experience and that of many friends. I believe 100% that being gay is not a choice; whether it be genetic, chemistry, etc. I do not know not can I prove anything. However, I was raised in a good Christian family and I fought it for most of my life. I prayed on it, counseled with ministers and others in the church - and nothing changed. At the age of 24 I finally accepted that this is what I am.

I can also tell you that I have never had any attraction to women. Some in the church felt if I found a good Christian woman that I could resolve the issue (let me clarify this was one school of thought, not the entire church). Ultimately, I could have dated and married, but felt that would have been the worst possible thing to do to a woman. I could not do that.

So I cannot explain why I am gay, but can say that it was absolutely not my choice to be this way - I fought this for most of my life. Is it my choice to be in a same-sex relationship? Absolutely.

Also wanted to mention that my partner is the son of a minister; we met while he was in seminary.
 
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#68
#68
Gives new meaning to the son of a preacher man.

I grew up w my parents having several gay friends. My brothers godfather is gay.

I have idea why people care. It's weird people care what others do romantically.


However, people like Perez Hilton hurt the gay community.


gcbvol said:
No too personal at all. I can answer this only from my experience and that of many friends. I believe 100% that being gay is not a choice; whether it be genetic, chemistry, etc. I do not know not can I prove anything. However, I was raised in a good Christian family and I fought it for most of my life. I prayed on it, counseled with ministers and others in the church - and nothing changed. At the age of 24 I finally accepted that this is what I am.

I can also tell you that I have never had any attraction to women. Some in the church felt if I found a good Christian woman that I could resolve the issue (let me clarify this was one school of thought, not the entire church). Ultimately, I could have dated and married, but felt that would have been the worst possible thing to do to a woman. I could not do that.

So I cannot explain why I am gay, but can say that it was absolutely not my choice to be this way - I fought this for most of my life. Is it my choice to be in a same-sex relationship? Absolutely.

Also wanted to mention that my partner is the son of a minister; we met while he was in seminary.
Click to expand...
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#70
#70
What do u guys think gsvol would do if he came across a gay Muslim?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#71
#71
gcbvol said:
No too personal at all. I can answer this only from my experience and that of many friends. I believe 100% that being gay is not a choice; whether it be genetic, chemistry, etc. I do not know not can I prove anything. However, I was raised in a good Christian family and I fought it for most of my life. I prayed on it, counseled with ministers and others in the church - and nothing changed. At the age of 24 I finally accepted that this is what I am.

I can also tell you that I have never had any attraction to women. Some in the church felt if I found a good Christian woman that I could resolve the issue (let me clarify this was one school of thought, not the entire church). Ultimately, I could have dated and married, but felt that would have been the worst possible thing to do to a woman. I could not do that.

So I cannot explain why I am gay, but can say that it was absolutely not my choice to be this way - I fought this for most of my life. Is it my choice to be in a same-sex relationship? Absolutely.

Also wanted to mention that my partner is the son of a minister; we met while he was in seminary.
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My stepmothers brother is gay and has been in a long time relationship with his partner. He was married to a woman for a few years, he was always attracted to women but felt equal attraction to men. Long story short his wife did not treat him well and was very insensitive about his disfigured skin (he was hit and drug by a dump truck when he was a child). When they divorced he moved away and found his life partner who has been wonderful for him.

I learned a great deal from them while they were in town about 5 years ago when my stepmothers father was in the final process of dying. They understood that I was not mocking them or being insulting with my questions, it was simply a foreign concept to me and one I didn't understand. The other poster who mentioned peoples fascination with other peoples lives has it right. It's similar to a different culture for straight people, when you don't understand the beliefs and customs they seem foreign.
 
#72
#72
sjt18 said:
Many laws and especially licenses are "discriminatory".

You can't marry a close relative. You can't marry more than one person. You can't marry an underaged child. You can't marry an animal. You can't hunt out of season. You can't drive any speed you want. You can't even drive whatever vehicle you want. You can't run any business you want anywhere you want.

Licenses by definition "discriminate".
Click to expand...

i dont think any of those are counter to someone just because of how that person is.....

...maybe you could try to claim with the child and the animal as quite a bit of a stretch, but at least in the former, half of that's on partial behalf of the damage it would do to the small child (who oddly would be in a position where they're involved but at the same time not old enough to legally make their own decisions on the matter)
 
#73
#73
KB5252 said:
My stepmothers brother is gay and has been in a long time relationship with his partner. He was married to a woman for a few years, he was always attracted to women but felt equal attraction to men. Long story short his wife did not treat him well and was very insensitive about his disfigured skin (he was hit and drug by a dump truck when he was a child). When they divorced he moved away and found his life partner who has been wonderful for him.

I learned a great deal from them while they were in town about 5 years ago when my stepmothers father was in the final process of dying. They understood that I was not mocking them or being insulting with my questions, it was simply a foreign concept to me and one I didn't understand. The other poster who mentioned peoples fascination with other peoples lives has it right. It's similar to a different culture for straight people, when you don't understand the beliefs and customs they seem foreign.
Click to expand...

d'ya ask 'em 'bout cornholin'?
 
#75
#75
Vols520 said:
Gives new meaning to the son of a preacher man.

I grew up w my parents having several gay friends. My brothers godfather is gay.

I have idea why people care. It's weird people care what others do romantically.


However, people like Perez Hilton hurt the gay community.



Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Completely agree on this point. Not a fan. It seems that much of the exposure folks get with the gay community is through people like Perez or the extremely flamboyant, when the majority are pretty typical people in every aspect but one. I think this makes it difficult for many people.
 
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