it seems the cali judge has a good reason to overturn.

#77
#77
Being Gay is primarily a fad, the same as being a Hippy was in the 1960's.

I try to love all people as my neighbor, regardless of their lifestyle. I certainly don't approve of the majority of people's lifestyles in this day and age though.

As far as gay marriage goes, I think its all a joke. What happens when pedophiles start screaming for equal rights. They can easily say they were born that way and it wasn't something they decided to pursue, but rather something they accepted as being who they were. People can scream all they want to about them being sick and perverted and they should have no rights, but they can use alot of the same arguments as are being discussed here.

For the record - I think pedophiles are twisted and sick individuals who need to be relocated to a island cut off from the remaining world. If I ever find out one is even looking at any of my children, I will beat the perversion out of them myself.
 
#80
#80
PandamoniumReigns said:
Being Gay is primarily a fad, the same as being a Hippy was in the 1960's.

I try to love all people as my neighbor, regardless of their lifestyle. I certainly don't approve of the majority of people's lifestyles in this day and age though.

As far as gay marriage goes, I think its all a joke. What happens when pedophiles start screaming for equal rights. They can easily say they were born that way and it wasn't something they decided to pursue, but rather something they accepted as being who they were. People can scream all they want to about them being sick and perverted and they should have no rights, but they can use alot of the same arguments as are being discussed here.

For the record - I think pedophiles are twisted and sick individuals who need to be relocated to a island cut off from the remaining world. If I ever find out one is even looking at any of my children, I will beat the perversion out of them myself.
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I'm sorry but that's a bit asinine; ealier there were people who said if gays were ever given any rights the Men Who Love Boys would come storming in right behind them.


there's just a bit of a difference there....just a bit
 
#81
#81
TrueOrange said:
I'm sorry but that's a bit asinine; ealier there were people who said if gays were ever given any rights the Men Who Love Boys would come storming in right behind them.


there's just a bit of a difference there....just a bit
Click to expand...

Not in these people's minds, apparently.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#83
#83
TrueOrange said:
I'm sorry but that's a bit asinine; ealier there were people who said if gays were ever given any rights the Men Who Love Boys would come storming in right behind them.


there's just a bit of a difference there....just a bit
Click to expand...

I agree that there is a difference. But there are also similiarities.(I'm not even going to touch on the religious aspect of this).

It's a group of individuals who have a chosen a lifestlye (although some say they are born that way) that goes against the natural use/purpose of a male and female.

A pedophile has chosen a lifestlye (although some say they are born that way) that goes against the natural use/purpose of a male and female.

A man who has sex with an animal can cry he was born that way and deserves equal rights based on the logic in this thread.

An alcoholic can cry he was born that way and therefore is above the law while he is driving drunk, simply because he either chose that lifestyle or was born with it. In his mind, he can't help it and therefore deserves the laws to be changed to accomodate himself.

You may call it asinine. I call is logical reasoning. The society we live in is completely warped. People will twist the laws and their thoughts and view to accomodate their own personal and selfish desires, no matter how corrupt they may be.
 
#84
#84
PandamoniumReigns said:
I agree that there is a difference. But there are also similiarities.(I'm not even going to touch on the religious aspect of this).

It's a group of individuals who have a chosen a lifestlye (although some say they are born that way) that goes against the natural use/purpose of a male and female.

A pedophile has chosen a lifestlye (although some say they are born that way) that goes against the natural use/purpose of a male and female.

A man who has sex with an animal can cry he was born that way and deserves equal rights based on the logic in this thread.

An alcoholic can cry he was born that way and therefore is above the law while he is driving drunk, simply because he either chose that lifestyle or was born with it. In his mind, he can't help it and therefore deserves the laws to be changed to accomodate himself.

You may call it asinine. I call is logical reasoning. The society we live in is completely warped. People will twist the laws and their thoughts and view to accomodate their own personal and selfish desires, no matter how corrupt they may be.
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a pedophile is both mentally ill and the child is not of an age of consent and not at an age where he could willingly consent

two homosexuals are two people of consensual age who have both agreed to said activities out of feelings they for each other

bit of a difference

you are using the most extremes to your comparison.....like a man who back in the day woud say it wasn't a woman's place to vote or that if slaves were ever freed, well then the white man would ended working for all of them after the uprising (and they'd steal our daughters to have sex with them, so on so on)

or the congressman who said that if the 14th amendment was ever passed, the state of california would end up overrun with the Chinese.....you're using comparisons of things people find utterly disgusting and trying to make an unconscious association through reinforcement that "see, they're really not that different"

with ideas of comparisons to that extreme of comparison to diseased or mentally ill people, you're getting really close to somewhere near pat robinson ridiculous or the 80s reagan era idea of "AIDS IS A PUNISHMENT FROM GOD TO THE HOMOSEXUALS FOR THEIR LIFESTYLE!"

People will twist the laws and their thoughts and view to accomodate their own personal and selfish desires, no matter how corrupt they may be.
Click to expand...

I hope you realize that can apply to you just as much as it can apply to me or the general public.....though it'd be a bit better if it was amended to "corrupt and self-serving" to reflect how society always has been and always will be
 
#85
#85
TrueOrange said:
a pedophile is both mentally ill and the child is not of an age of consent and not at an age where he could willingly consent

two homosexuals are two people of consensual age who have both agreed to said activities out of feelings they for each other

bit of a difference

you are using the most extremes to your comparison.....like a man who back in the day woud say it wasn't a woman's place to vote or that if slaves were ever freed, well then the white man would ended working for all of them after the uprising (and they'd steal our daughters to have sex with them, so on so on)

or the congressman who said that if the 14th amendment was ever passed, the state of california would end up overrun with the Chinese.....you're using comparisons of things people find utterly disgusting and trying to make an unconscious association through reinforcement that "see, they're really not that different"

with ideas of comparisons to that extreme of comparison to diseased or mentally ill people, you're getting really close to somewhere near pat robinson ridiculous or the 80s reagan era idea of "AIDS IS A PUNISHMENT FROM GOD TO THE HOMOSEXUALS FOR THEIR LIFESTYLE!"



I hope you realize that can apply to you just as much as it can apply to me or the general public.....though it'd be a bit better if it was amended to "corrupt and self-serving" to reflect how society always has been and always will be
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I agree with the first bolded part, but who's to say what age a child can give consent. The laws of every land are different. As far as the mentally ill goes, again, based on what? Perhaps people think homosexuals are mentally ill since they both have decided to toss aside (by choice) their natural purpose in this world and choose a corrupt and self-serving lifestyle.
I agree that pedophilia is a sick and disgusting practice, but those pedophiles who we all want to kick in the balls and then kick some more can use many of these same arguments. Its the same principles.
Some who truly are repentant of this sick act will try to repress these thoughts and feelings since this is a sick and twisted and unnatural lifestyle. They will not just say "I was born this way" or "this is who I am, so I just accept it".

The second bolded part above is laughable. I in no way think God is punishing homosexuals by affliciting them with a life-threatening disease. Absurd. Each individual faces the consequences (good or bad) for the actions they choose for themself.
 
#86
#86
PandamoniumReigns said:
I agree with the first bolded part, but who's to say what age a child can give consent. The laws of every land are different. As far as the mentally ill goes, again, based on what?
Perhaps people think homosexuals are mentally ill since they both have decided to toss aside (by choice) their natural purpose in this world and choose a corrupt and self-serving lifestyle.
I agree that pedophilia is a sick and disgusting practice, but those pedophiles who we all want to kick in the balls and then kick some more can use many of these same arguments. Its the same principles.
Some who truly are repentant of this sick act will try to repress these thoughts and feelings since this is a sick and twisted and unnatural lifestyle. They will not just say "I was born this way" or "this is who I am, so I just accept it".
Click to expand...

No they really can't unless you're trying to use it to make a connection because, mainly, you just think they're both sins.

here's the thing:

First off, it's not the same principles. You're bringing in a completely other idea by saying "who's to say when a child is of age of consent" and just twisting it a little bit to serve your suggestions and ideas. If you want to go into laws of other lands, most other countries in Europe, who have moved on past this silly issue (just like how most have realized there isn't any harm in allowing gays in their military). But you're associating two different things - a built and consensual relationship between two adult homosexual (male or female) and another is an adult taking advantage of a child - and saying that they're basically almost the same thing

Secondly, justice and people's rights can't be decided on "who or what may come to our door next." They (pedophiles) can use all the same arguments they want (in a scenario after gay marriage is allowed) and I promise you no court would allow/change their stance on them just as people would not begin to show them general sympathy. That line of thought is as bad as saying not to let Jews build synagogues because more Muslims would want to come here and build mosques; or African-Americans shouldn't be allowed to own firearms because then latinos would ask to have them too.

(note: I'm not saying anything bad about any of these groups or that they shouldn't have such and such; it's for comparative purposes)

This though is about people who, while they may live a different lifestyle - one that does no harm to anyone or anything else, are still human beings and as such should be allowed to be treated as people and receive the same rights and privileges; yet get denied something that honestly makes most of these opponents feel uncomfortable unless it's two blond cheerleaders who make out on their computer screens (hooray for double standards!). They're people who aren't harming anyone; honestly, I'm not really sure why they shouldn't be allowed to be joined with someone else for life, a right everyone else has.

These are a completely different group of people than the ones you're comparing them to. Whether their rights (America being a place where everyone is said to be granted equal rights) are being violated or not has to be based what's happening to them and not something wrong that some other group of sickos does or might do.....just like you can't disallow a religious service because some nut might try to claim his cult should be allowed to sacrifice a virgin. It has to be about what is happening to them.

The second bolded part above is laughable. I in no way think God is punishing homosexuals by affliciting them with a life-threatening disease. Absurd. Each individual faces the consequences (good or bad) for the actions they choose for themself.
Click to expand...

I was referencing the common belief about HIV in the late 80s; HIV started off as a disease initially transmitted more amongst homosexuals. It was believed by the general public (more the conservative and religous sides) that the virus was punishment for their lifestyle and it was pretty much ignored, including by the administration in charge....who didn't mention a single thing about it until the number of deaths reached somewhere between 5,600 and 16,300 around '85 and '86.

here's an article; it's a good read about what happened with some of this, so I suggest you read it: Presidency, U.S. - The Body

Reagan then admitted in 1990 that it was something he really should have paid more attention to and apologized for his neglect on the issue while he was in office.

the pat robinson thing references this quote:
"[Homosexuals] want to come into churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the face of ministers."
Click to expand...
 
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#87
#87
I am in no way saying Homosexuals are the same as Pedophiles.

I'm saying that both groups can argue their rights using some of the same principles located in this thread. Both groups claim they were either "Born that way" or "That is who they are so they accepted it". There are laws concerning both groups prohibiting aspects in full or in part of what each group practices.

Before 20 or so years ago, Homosexuality was in large part view gross and immoral by the majority of the population. It wasn't even spoken of really. However, due to the perverseness and corrupt morals of society which was accelerated by the media, this practice became more and more accepted to the point that its now taboo not to accept it.

Who's to say at some point in the future, The world will or will not become more tolerable of other perverse or corrupt practices?

My grandparents, and even parents, never would have thought they would see the day when a man and another man (or a woman and another woman) could join together in a legal marriage because of how society viewed this. That day is here.

This has been a great discussion. I am out of this thread for the night. Good night everyone.
 
#88
#88
PandamoniumReigns said:
I am in no way saying Homosexuals are the same as Pedophiles.

I'm saying that both groups can argue their rights using some of the same principles located in this thread. Both groups claim they were either "Born that way" or "That is who they are so they accepted it". There are laws concerning both groups prohibiting aspects in full or in part of what each group practices.

Before 20 or so years ago, Homosexuality was in large part view gross and immoral by the majority of the population. It wasn't even spoken of really. However, due to the perverseness and corrupt morals of society which was accelerated by the media, this practice became more and more accepted to the point that its now taboo not to accept it.

Who's to say at some point in the future, The world will or will not become more tolerable of other perverse or corrupt practices?

My grandparents, and even parents, never would have thought they would see the day when a man and another man (or a woman and another woman) could join together in a legal marriage because of how society viewed this. That day is here.

This has been a great discussion. I am out of this thread for the night. Good night everyone.
Click to expand...

I agree this is a great topic for discussion. I am also glad you differentiated between the two; pedophiles have victims.

It is very interesting to hear the viewpoints on the growing acceptance of homosexuality - I certainly understand (but disagree) with the view that this represents some sort of societal degradation. Others view this as societal advancement - I guess it all depends on which side of the fence we reside. I have to admit that I found it shocking when Argentina recently legalized gay marriage. Many Latin cultures have been quite averse to homosexuality, so very surprising to me. Interesting times indeed.
 
#89
#89
gcbvol said:
No too personal at all. I can answer this only from my experience and that of many friends. I believe 100% that being gay is not a choice; whether it be genetic, chemistry, etc. I do not know not can I prove anything. However, I was raised in a good Christian family and I fought it for most of my life. I prayed on it, counseled with ministers and others in the church - and nothing changed. At the age of 24 I finally accepted that this is who I am.
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fyp... :thumbsup:

Just so you know, I am a Christian and I really enjoyed reading your post and appreciate you sharing your personal information. The only thing I perhaps disagreed with is that you are not a "what" (I hope that was more of a grammatical mistake and not a belief). I don't want to hijack this thread and get it off track by turning it into another "religion" focused discussion (there's been plenty of those), but I don't believe it is a choice either. For those who may be a little self-righteous, the Bible makes it clear that we are all born of sin. You know... cast the first stone... yada... yada... yada.

For anyone who thinks it may be a choice, ask yourself this... when did you choose to become attracted to the opposite sex? For me personally, I don't recall ever making the decision to be more attracted to women than men. And in further support of this innate attraction, I can say jokingly... and with some certainty... that my erector set is 100% in synch with my attraction toward women. :)
 
#90
#90
IBlvNTmWrk said:
fyp... :thumbsup:

Just so you know, I am a Christian and I really enjoyed reading your post and appreciate you sharing your personal information. The only thing I perhaps disagreed with is that you are not a "what" (I hope that was more of a grammatical mistake and not a belief). I don't want to hijack this thread and get it off track by turning it into another "religion" focused discussion (there's been plenty of those), but I don't believe it is a choice either. For those who may be a little self-righteous, the Bible makes it clear that we are all born of sin. You know... cast the first stone... yada... yada... yada.

For anyone who thinks it may be a choice, ask yourself this... when did you choose to become attracted to the opposite sex? For me personally, I don't recall ever making the decision to be more attracted to women than men. And in further support of this innate attraction, I can say jokingly... and with some certainty... that my erector set is 100% in synch with my attraction toward women. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post and catch of the grammatical error - much better.

The whole conversation around whether or not it is a choice is difficult to reconcile, I think, because it is completely contrary to what people know. I think your point above is a good one; if anything I tried to 'choose' to be heterosexual. It did not happen.
 
#91
#91
What gets me, is that there is only one way to view homosexuality now days. As a student at UT in the mid to late 70's, psychology taught that homosexuality was a diease. Now if you believe that homosexuality is not right you have the diease (homophobic). Funny how things changed in 20 to 30 years. Ever looked into the backgrounds of some of the modern psychologist that studied this and believe that its natural? Its interesting.
 
#92
#92
IBlvNTmWrk said:
fyp... :thumbsup:

Just so you know, I am a Christian and I really enjoyed reading your post and appreciate you sharing your personal information. The only thing I perhaps disagreed with is that you are not a "what" (I hope that was more of a grammatical mistake and not a belief). I don't want to hijack this thread and get it off track by turning it into another "religion" focused discussion (there's been plenty of those), but I don't believe it is a choice either. For those who may be a little self-righteous, the Bible makes it clear that we are all born of sin. You know... cast the first stone... yada... yada... yada.

For anyone who thinks it may be a choice, ask yourself this... when did you choose to become attracted to the opposite sex? For me personally, I don't recall ever making the decision to be more attracted to women than men. And in further support of this innate attraction, I can say jokingly... and with some certainty... that my erector set is 100% in synch with my attraction toward women. :)
Click to expand...

The bolded statement needs to be clarified. It can't be just tossed around to fit the needs of any given situation.

I'm not here to cast any stones and yes we are all born into sin. Its something we can't help. We all have weaknesses of one form or another that we all try to, or need to, fight against. But the willful practice of sin condemned in the Bible is an entirely different subject. We all sin. It's inevitable. Repentance is for those who are truly sorry for their sin and takes step to avoid it again. Basically, they don't willingly practice the sin. If they do, the Ransom has no further meaning for them.
 
#93
#93
Oldvol75 said:
What gets me, is that there is only one way to view homosexuality now days. As a student at UT in the mid to late 70's, psychology taught that homosexuality was a diease. Now if you believe that homosexuality is not right you have the diease (homophobic). Funny how things changed in 20 to 30 years. Ever looked into the backgrounds of some of the modern psychologist that studied this and believe that its natural? Its interesting.
Click to expand...

well look at a majority of the people running the country, and the years they entered the school of thought. The generation of "hippies" and what not have stepped up and are in charge of things. It will be this for several years then it will cycle out
 
#94
#94
Oldvol75 said:
What gets me, is that there is only one way to view homosexuality now days. As a student at UT in the mid to late 70's, psychology taught that homosexuality was a diease. Now if you believe that homosexuality is not right you have the diease (homophobic). Funny how things changed in 20 to 30 years. Ever looked into the backgrounds of some of the modern psychologist that studied this and believe that its natural? Its interesting.
Click to expand...

Sometimes. Sometimes it isn't. Yes, there are gay psychologists.
 
#95
#95
just like there are gay fish

kanye-west-south-park-gayfish.jpg
 
#96
#96
I will avoid directly commenting on the Bible when I can since it bothers panda, but I saw this sign:

75dbd44b-5836-4f62-8c7b-d03d6dde0c7c.jpg


Any thoughts on this? Is this just inflammatory rhetoric? Or is it taking something out of context? Or do some of you agree with the biblical sentiment here?
 
#99
#99
IPorange said:
I will avoid directly commenting on the Bible when I can since it bothers panda, but I saw this sign:

75dbd44b-5836-4f62-8c7b-d03d6dde0c7c.jpg


Any thoughts on this? Is this just inflammatory rhetoric? Or is it taking something out of context? Or do some of you agree with the biblical sentiment here?
Click to expand...

You know the answer. We don't live by old testament doctrine. Not going down that road again but that is the answer
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#100
#100
well... the OT serves as a history, and evidence for the Messiah, unless the people that were holding that sign was jewish, than it is out of context. When Christ died on the cross a new covenant was established, and a new law based upon the teachings of Christ was established,
Matthew 27:51
At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split
Click to expand...
This occured when Jesus died on the cross, the last blood sacrifice, or however you want to say it. In the NT there really isnt such strict guidelines for marriage as in the OT. Basically the NT God is a much nicer being than the OT
 
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