Its like Trumpsters have no idea of the basics of the Republic

[OrangeTsar]

Because he won the 2016 Republican primary, was essentially unopposed in the 2020 primary, and nearly every Republican elected official who said anything negative about him without subsequently walking it back got shown the door or is in the process of being shown the door, regardless of their voting record.

Which shows that you do not understand Conservatives or what Trump was all about. If you think widespread disgust with the spineless wonders that the GOP establishment kept pushing on the voters every cycle post Regan has anything AT ALL to do with „liking“ Trump, then you really just don’t get it and i don’t think it is possible to explain it to you.
Instead of asking if Conservatives „like“ Trump, try asking yourself what the GOP base DOESN‘T like about Romney, MCain, the Bush Family, Doyle, and the rest. And then remember how the establishment was trying to crown the king of Wishy Wash (Jeb Bush) as the next guaranteed designated loser right before the rise of Trump. Then you will at least be on the beginning path to enlightenment

 

[hog88]

Republican isn’t the same as conservative. Real conservatives distanced themselves from Trump numerous times. Very few elected republicans are actual conservatives, most are right leaning populists looking out only for their next re-election.

Most aren't even really right leaning, they just pay lip service to the principles of fiscal responsibility to get elected.

 

[RockyTop85]

Republican isn’t the same as conservative. Real conservatives distanced themselves from Trump numerous times. Very few elected republicans are actual conservatives, most are right leaning populists looking out only for their next re-election.

Elected Republicans’ interest in re-election makes them a useful weather vane for the Republican electorate, which is how they were used here.

I also think his posts make clear that he’s not talking about the “real conservatives” who distanced themselves from Trump and declined to vote Republican. He’s talking about the people like himself who make various excuses for continuing to support him.

(Scare quotes used because people who like Trump see themselves as the real conservatives.)

 

[RockyTop85]

Which shows that you do not understand Conservatives or what Trump was all about. If you think widespread disgust with the spineless wonders that the GOP establishment kept pushing on the voters every cycle post Regan has anything AT ALL to do with „liking“ Trump, then you really just don’t get it and i don’t think it is possible to explain it to you.
Instead of asking if Conservatives „like“ Trump, try asking yourself what the GOP base DOESN‘T like about Romney, MCain, the Bush Family, Doyle, and the rest. And then remember how the establishment was trying to crown the king of Wishy Wash (Jeb Bush) as the next guaranteed designated loser right before the rise of Trump. Then you will at least be on the beginning path to enlightenment

You’re focusing entirely on the first half of the answer. While I’m sure that makes it a more convenient point to respond to, it ignores the fact that any criticism of Trump is a taboo.

 

[Orange defense]

Flynn said the US should have ONE religion. What an idiotic statement. Singular religion is a key reason people came to the continent to begin with 350 years ago.

I sincerely hope no one here espouses such an idea.

Good grief! Trump and Trumpsters still live in your head rent free. However, here we come in 2024 again, watch your eyes for those

 

[OrangeTsar]

You’re focusing entirely on the first half of the answer. While I’m sure that makes it a more convenient point to respond to, it ignores the fact that any criticism of Trump is a taboo.

Criticism of Trump is fine. Actively trying to hobble him over a perfectly legal phone call while he was still in office was not. Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio criticized Trump and even ran against him, but they didn’t vote to convict on Impeachment. As such, they remain in the Good graces of the voters. Opposition is one thing. Usurpation is different.

 

[RockyTop85]

Criticism of Trump is fine. Actively trying to hobble him over a perfectly legal phone call while he was still in office was not. Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio criticized Trump and even ran against him, but they didn’t vote to convict on Impeachment. As such, they remain in the Good graces of the voters. Opposition is one thing. Usurpation is different.

No, it’s not, this is just a silly argument. Any criticism of Trump has to be walked back to maintain political viability because there is no undercurrent of dissatisfaction among the Republican electorate, as you’re suggesting. You can look at the bevy of comments following January 6 and the career trajectory of those who have maintained those criticisms vs those that cowered in fear and walked them back.

If Republican voters wanted people who stuck to their convictions, those people would be viable politicians moreso than those who hate him but are too chickenshit to do anything about it. That’s not what Republicans want. They want Trump. Discussions like this are just putting lipstick on the pig.

 

[luthervol]

No, it’s not, this is just a silly argument. Any criticism of Trump has to be walked back to maintain political viability because there is no undercurrent of dissatisfaction among the Republican electorate, as you’re suggesting. You can look at the bevy of comments following January 6 and the career trajectory of those who have maintained those criticisms vs those that cowered in fear and walked them back.

If Republican voters wanted people who stuck to their convictions, those people would be viable politicians moreso than those who hate him but are too chickenshit to do anything about it. That’s not what Republicans want. They want Trump. Discussions like this are just putting lipstick on the pig.

One has to look no further than the state of GA and at which repubs. are in favor with the base.

 

[OrangeTsar]

No, it’s not, this is just a silly argument. Any criticism of Trump has to be walked back to maintain political viability because there is no undercurrent of dissatisfaction among the Republican electorate, as you’re suggesting. You can look at the bevy of comments following January 6 and the career trajectory of those who have maintained those criticisms vs those that cowered in fear and walked them back.

If Republican voters wanted people who stuck to their convictions, those people would be viable politicians moreso than those who hate him but are too chickenshit to do anything about it. That’s not what Republicans want. They want Trump. Discussions like this are just putting lipstick on the pig.

You think you are qualified to tell me what I want? That is pathetic and hilarious. I wanted Ted Cruz in 2016. I want DeSantis in 2024. but I will hold my nose and vote for Trump again of I have to to avoid whatever bat excrement crazy leftist the Democrats manage to nominate next time.

 

[RockyTop85]

You think you are qualified to tell me what I want? That is pathetic and hilarious. I wanted Ted Cruz in 2016. I want DeSantis in 2024. but I will hold my nose and vote for Trump again of I have to to avoid whatever bat excrement crazy leftist the Democrats manage to nominate next time.

I’m not telling you what you want, numbnuts. You framed the discussion, how have you already forgotten what it was about?

 

[OrangeTsar]

I’m not telling you what you want, numbnuts. You framed the discussion, how have you already forgotten what it was?

You claimed we „like“ Trump. A lot of us despise him but still know where our best bet lies. I was merely supporting that argument. So now why don’t you go worry about your own party and the 38% approval pile of mush you guys stuck us all with. Can’t WAIT to see how you folks attempt to deal with that particular clean up on aisle 5

 

[MG1968]

You claimed we „like“ Trump. A lot of us despise him but still know where our best bet lies. I was merely supporting that argument. So now why don’t you go worry about your own party and the 38% approval pile of mush you guys stuck us all with. Can’t WAIT to see how you folks attempt to deal with that particular clean up on aisle 5

Biden is like a gateway drug in that something more harmful is just one crisis away from taking control.

 

[RockyTop85]

You claimed we „like“ Trump. A lot of us despise him but still know where our best bet lies. I was merely supporting that argument. So now why don’t you go worry about your own party and the 38% approval pile of mush you guys stuck us all with. Can’t WAIT to see how you folks attempt to deal with that particular clean up on aisle 5

Self defeating post. Well done.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Self defeating post. Well done.

I do try. Thanks!

 

[RockyTop85]

I do try. Thanks!

Maybe stop trying whatever you’re trying and start trying to not assume that anybody who doesn’t like Trump is a democrat when you’re complaining about people assuming all Republicans like Trump.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Maybe stop trying whatever you’re trying and start trying to not assume that anybody who doesn’t like Trump is a democrat when you’re complaining about people assuming all Republicans like Trump.

Fair enough. There are very few politicians that I „like“ and I wouldn’t be surprised if that feeling wasn’t quite common

 

[LouderVol]

No, it’s not, this is just a silly argument. Any criticism of Trump has to be walked back to maintain political viability because there is no undercurrent of dissatisfaction among the Republican electorate, as you’re suggesting. You can look at the bevy of comments following January 6 and the career trajectory of those who have maintained those criticisms vs those that cowered in fear and walked them back.

If Republican voters wanted people who stuck to their convictions, those people would be viable politicians moreso than those who hate him but are too chickenshit to do anything about it. That’s not what Republicans want. They want Trump. Discussions like this are just putting lipstick on the pig.

I know the conversation is framed around Trump, but this isnt something unique to republicans and their relationship to Trump. You find the exact same circumstance with democrats. Did they really "want" Biden or Hilary?

Equating votes in our system to "want" is a bad way to go. The way voting works only allows a dichotomy, usually removing any possibility of a "want" for the vast majoirty of voters, regardless of party.

 

[RockyTop85]

I know the conversation is framed around Trump, but this isnt something unique to republicans and their relationship to Trump. You find the exact same circumstance with democrats. Did they really "want" Biden or Hilary?

Equating votes in our system to "want" is a bad way to go. The way voting works only allows a dichotomy, usually removing any possibility of a "want" for the vast majoirty of voters, regardless of party.

I think you are comparing two unlike things.

The “Not my first choice but I’d vote for him over [Trump/Hillary]” doesn’t equate to ‘want’ or ‘like,’” I agree. I think that applies to how most Biden voters feel, and it’s what OP was describing as far as his personal feelings about Trump.

I just think that it’s a minority opinion among people who continue to identify as Republican.

Remember, as Trumpkins like to point out, Biden can’t draw the crowd sizes or ratings that Trump did and you can actually criticize him on here without a half-dozen people getting offended. I think there’s maybe one or two people carrying water for him on here? No elected official is being put in the position of comply or retire.

I’m sure all of that is multi-factorial, but I think it boils down to what the respective electorates want. A majority or at least a strong plurality of Republican voters legitimately want Trump.

 

[Matt2496]

Most aren't even really right leaning, they just pay lip service to the principles of fiscal responsibility to get elected.

There's 1 exception and that would be Rand Paul. He must be doing something right for both sides to oppose his plan to try and balance the budget.

 

[Weezer]

Flynn said the US should have ONE religion. What an idiotic statement. Singular religion is a key reason people came to the continent to begin with 350 years ago.

I sincerely hope no one here espouses such an idea.

This is kind of true. The difference is everyone practiced Christianity, just not the same denomination. But I agree the idea of one religion is idiotic and un-Constitutional.

 

[LouderVol]

I think you are comparing two unlike things.

The “Not my first choice but I’d vote for him over [Trump/Hillary]” doesn’t equate to ‘want’ or ‘like,’” I agree. I think that applies to how most Biden voters feel, and it’s what OP was describing as far as his personal feelings about Trump.

I just think that it’s a minority opinion among people who continue to identify as Republican.

Remember, as Trumpkins like to point out, Biden can’t draw the crowd sizes or ratings that Trump did and you can actually criticize him on here without a half-dozen people getting offended. I think there’s maybe one or two people carrying water for him on here? No elected official is being put in the position of comply or retire.

I’m sure all of that is multi-factorial, but I think it boils down to what the respective electorates want. A majority or at least a strong plurality of Republican voters legitimately want Trump.

Did you not see what happened to Manchin and Senema? (Sp) they were absolutely threatened.

I agree that the portion of Rs who actually want Trump is higher than those Ds who wanted Biden. But they both exist. This just seems to be another case where something has existed for forever/my life, but suddenly became an issue just because of Trump.

I think if you saw a strong candidate show up for the Rs, the support for Trump would disappear. It's a failing of our system of voting where the figurehead of the party matters. It's why Obama still gets trotted out whenever something Biden related needs support Biden cant generate on his own.

And that's the far better comparison imo. The Trump following is more akin to the Obama following. There is a large core that is going to support them for being different, not because they are the greatest thing for the US government since tax withholdings.

 

[RockyTop85]

Did you not see what happened to Manchin and Senema? (Sp) they were absolutely threatened.

I agree that the portion of Rs who actually want Trump is higher than those Ds who wanted Biden. But they both exist. This just seems to be another case where something has existed for forever/my life, but suddenly became an issue just because of Trump.

I think if you saw a strong candidate show up for the Rs, the support for Trump would disappear. It's a failing of our system of voting where the figurehead of the party matters. It's why Obama still gets trotted out whenever something Biden related needs support Biden cant generate on his own.

And that's the far better comparison imo. The Trump following is more akin to the Obama following. There is a large core that is going to support them for being different, not because they are the greatest thing for the US government since tax withholdings.

Manchin and Sinema were threatened by whackjob progressives for holding up the progressive agenda. It has nothing to do with not supporting Biden, who these same progressives don’t even like. Those people generally voted for Bernie.

I’ve never said there weren’t nuts on both sides, but they’re not the same type of nuts, they don’t have the same obsessions, and they’re present in less relevant concentrations on the left.

Yeah, sure, Trump/Obama following would be a better comparison on some levels.

 

[LouderVol]

Manchin and Sinema were threatened by whackjob progressives for holding up the progressive agenda. It has nothing to do with not supporting Biden, who these same progressives don’t even like. Those people generally voted for Bernie.

I’ve never said there weren’t nuts on both sides, but they’re not the same type of nuts, they don’t have the same obsessions, and they’re present in less relevant concentrations on the left.

Yeah, sure, Trump/Obama following would be a better comparison on some levels.

No they are just more widely accepted on the left. Similar numbers, similar use of violence.

Think about if it was a right leaning group that took over parts of a city and occupied a police station for months, instead of antifa.

We have already seen it with the Bundy standoff. Feds came down hard guns blazing, media blasted Bundy full bore, then federal courts rule in favor of Bundy. Yet to see antifa justified in a court of law.

 

[hog88]

I didn't want to start a new thread and this seem like a good a place as any since it has to do with understanding the basics of a Republic.

The Albuquerque DA is suing a NM based militia group for:

In June 2020, a protest in Old Town Albuquerque over the proposed removal of a statue of Juan de Oñate, the Spanish conquistador and colonial governor of New Mexico, turned violent.

Dozens of protesters calling for the statue's demolition faced off against counter-protesters, including heavily armed men wearing military-style fatigues – members of the New Mexico Civil Guard.

One man was shot in the ensuing scuffle. Though militia members were not involved in the shooting, their presence as an unlicensed, unsanctioned, armed security force in a public space got Torrez's attention.

"They're invading the province of traditional police authority, which is a highly regulated space that the state and the government must maintain a monopoly over," Torrez said. "The police have the authority to use deadly force under very limited circumstances, but we expect them to be highly trained."

The article goes on to mention that in all 50 states it's illegal to conduct paramilitary activity and training and in NM it's against the law to conduct firearm training. Can someone please explain how this can even be? IMO this is just another blue state going to war against law abiding citizens.

New Mexico DA sues unauthorized militia group, then goes after Facebook for records to prove his case

 

[RockyTop85]

No they are just more widely accepted on the left. Similar numbers, similar use of violence.

Think about if it was a right leaning group that took over parts of a city and occupied a police station for months, instead of antifa.

We have already seen it with the Bundy standoff. Feds came down hard guns blazing, media blasted Bundy full bore, then federal courts rule in favor of Bundy. Yet to see antifa justified in a court of law.

You’re back to conflating unlike things.

We are talking about relative concentrations of people who “wanted” Trump vs. Obama and were willing to punish politicians for not supporting their side’s respective figurehead.

The number of people from each side willing to engage in violence is completely irrelevant to that, unless you’re saying anybody who meets that criteria for either figurehead is willing to resort to violence.