I've changed my mind about

#226
#226
zjcvols said:
Your last paragraph says it all. If I was the AD, I would fire Martin give Howland a $20M contract and call it day. But I have no control or backdoor idea on UT athletics.

If we are going to just pay $2M a year, you might as well keep the guy who's had a top four SEC program and averages 20 wins a year. The probability of you getting better than that for $2M a year is highly doubtful.
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Why would you pay that much for Howland? He is damaged goods, and hasn't made it past the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament since 07'-08', while coaching at a school that essentially recruits for it's self. He hemorrhaged players after 07-08' having 11 transfer out in 5 years. There is a reason he doesn't have a coaching job right now.
 
#228
#228
drewtigeralum said:
Why would you pay that much for Howland. He is damaged goods, and hasn't made it past the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament since 07'-08'. He hemorrhaged players after 07-08' having 11 transfer out in 5 years. There is a reason he doesn't have a coaching job right now.
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He will, he took one year off, same thing as Pearl. Howland is being mentioned with the Wake Forest job pretty strongly, and there will be more as they come open.

If Pearl gets $2.2m with his NCAA issues, I bet Howland gets every bit of $2m if not more.
 
#229
#229
zjcvols said:
Your last paragraph says it all. If I was the AD, I would fire Martin give Howland a $20M contract and call it day. But I have no control or backdoor idea on UT athletics.

If we are going to just pay $2M a year, you might as well keep the guy who's had a top four SEC program and averages 20 wins a year. The probability of you getting better than that for $2M a year is highly doubtful.
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I respect your opinion. If Martin was to, as some have suggested, leave for another program, I would hope the AD would do just as you say, I'm not a huge Howland guy, but I can see it.

Now...if I were AD... I see a lot of upside in Martin. I see that he has developed players like Stokes, Richardson, and Moore and that he's recruited a guy like Hubbs and in the biggest area of need, PG...it's in the pipeline. He played in the NBA, he can relate, it garners respect from parents and kids.

Those close game losses will become wins with more experience, more big time competition.

I also look around at the league, ZO is holding his own, Calipari might bolt as soon as this year...do I really want to start all over again when I have a guy who's winning at a high level, getting to the dance and I can sleep at night knowing he's doing things the right way.
 
#230
#230
drewtigeralum said:
Why would you pay that much for Howland? He is damaged goods, and hasn't made it past the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament since 07'-08', while coaching at a school that essentially recruits for it's self. He hemorrhaged players after 07-08' having 11 transfer out in 5 years. There is a reason he doesn't have a coaching job right now.
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You are really underestimating Howland. He's very good X's and O's, he has built two programs, he can recruit, and he has a great track record that would really help build a foundation here.
 
#232
#232
vol66 said:
I respect your opinion. If Martin was to, as some have suggested, leave for another program, I would hope the AD would do just as you say, I'm not a huge Howland guy, but I can see it.

Now...if I were AD... I see a lot of upside in Martin. I see that he has developed players like Stokes, Richardson, and Moore and that he's recruited a guy like Hubbs and in the biggest area of need, PG...it's in the pipeline. He played in the NBA, he can relate, it garners respect from parents and kids.

Those close game losses will become wins with more experience, more big time competition.

I also look around at the league, ZO is holding his own, Calipari might bolt as soon as this year...do I really want to start all over again when I have a guy who's winning at a high level, getting to the dance and I can sleep at night knowing he's doing things the right way.
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I think that's fair though I would really like one solid sure fire year to feel better. I just don't believe he can get you in the tournament every year.

Now if he can surprise and have next year's team be a solid 5-7 seed, I will change my tune.
 
#233
#233
bleedingTNorange said:
He will, he took one year off, same thing as Pearl. Howland is being mentioned with the Wake Forest job pretty strongly, and there will be more as they come open.

If Pearl gets $2.2m with his NCAA issues, I bet Howland gets every bit of $2m if not more.
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I'm not saying he won't get a job, but paying 20mil for a guy that got run out of U.C.L.A. because he couldn't keep it together doesn't seem like a smart investment of funds.
 
#234
#234
zjcvols said:
I think that's fair though I would really like one solid sure fire year to feel better. I just don't believe he can get you in the tournament every year.

Now if he can surprise and have next year's team be a solid 5-7 seed, I will change my tune.
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Fair enough. :hi:
 
#235
#235
drewtigeralum said:
I'm not saying he won't get a job, but paying 20mil for a guy that got run out of U.C.L.A. because he couldn't keep it together doesn't seem like a smart investment of funds.
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He was fine. He had some issues but he did not deserve to be fired.

Also, the AD kinda set him up too.
 
#238
#238
zjcvols said:
You are really underestimating Howland. He's very good X's and O's, he has built two programs, he can recruit, and he has a great track record that would really help build a foundation here.
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Howland completely lost control at UCLA. Also, if you want to talk about underachieving, he couldn't make it out of the second round with incredible talent during his last 5 years, missing the tournament twice. I'm not saying he is a bad coach, in fact, I really liked his Final 4 UCLA teams but I wouldn't break the bank to bring him into any program. Wake will kick the tires but I doubt they offer him a big money deal.
 
#239
#239
zjcvols said:
He was fine. He had some issues but he did not deserve to be fired.

Also, the AD kinda set him up too.
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Come on now, the Reeves Nelson thing was crazy. It might have been swept under the rug if Howland didn't keep getting upset in the tournament.
 
#240
#240
drewtigeralum said:
Howland completely lost control at UCLA. Also, if you want to talk about underachieving, he couldn't make it out of the second round with incredible talent during his last 5 years, missing the tournament twice. I'm not saying he is a bad coach, in fact, I really liked his Final 4 UCLA teams but I wouldn't break the bank to bring him into any program. Wake will kick the tires but I doubt they offer him a big money deal.
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He did not have great talent after those FF teams. He underachieved some but he's still a good coach that would immediately have Tennessee as a top 25 program. Anytime you have a three time Final Four coach on the market, you should break the bank if you are looking.
 
#242
#242
drewtigeralum said:
Come on now, the Reeves Nelson thing was crazy. It might have been swept under the rug if Howland didn't keep getting upset in the tournament.
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The AD did nothing to help him out. Howland and the AD had issues.
 
#243
#243
Either way, it's not fair to talk about potential replacements with a tourney game in 13 hours anyways.
 
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#245
#245
zjcvols said:
He did not have great talent after those FF teams. He underachieved some but he's still a good coach that would immediately have Tennessee as a top 25 program. Anytime you have a three time Final Four coach on the market, you should break the bank if you are looking.
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He had a roster stacked with 4 and 5* players. He went 14-18 with a team that had 7 4* players and a 5* player.
 
#246
#246
My opinion is unchanged. We have sweet 16 level talent/experience this year. We should be playing later today as a much higher seed. I am convinced that Zo will be back, I was sure of that at the end of the regular season. I just have very little faith that next year will be a good year and I think we'll be in the NIT again.
 
#248
#248
VolArmy74 said:
My opinion is unchanged. We have sweet 16 level talent/experience this year. We should be playing later today as a much higher seed. I am convinced that Zo will be back, I was sure of that at the end of the regular season. I just have very little faith that next year will be a good year and I think we'll be in the NIT again.
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I get what you are saying, but wouldn't it be more prudent to look three or four more years down the road. I'm guessing you don't think Zo can build it long term, is that it?
 
#249
#249
drewtigeralum said:
He had a roster stacked with 4 and 5* players. He went 14-18 with a team that had 7 4* players and a 5* player.
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He also built two programs, went to three straight Final Fours in a third and got fired in a season in which he won the conference. I'll take him.
 
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