Jan 1, 2011 tax hikes

#51
#51
This entire thing started because I corrected a guy who was wrong.

Apparently explaining what is actually going on or what is law versus email forwards that are wrong is frowned upon because it goes into detail for a specific event instead of broader tax/economic theory, which FTR I understand and agree with 100 pct.
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You are either arguing semantics for some unknown reason or you are the one who is wrong.

Passing on the costs of taxes by businesses and the "rich" is not "theory". It is absolute FACT.

What many people (including some CPA's I guess) do not know is that many, many businesses operate on profit margins that aren't much better than a savings account. If their taxes go up then eihter they cut costs somewhere else (often labor costs) or else they raise prices or cut the value of products. The only other option is to go out of business.

If you want to know why investors aren't putting their money out there.... just ask yourself one question... if you could draw a guaranteed 3% or 4% or risk having new taxes make your net return less than that or even a loss.... which would you do.

I always surprised though I shouldn't be by how little understanding Dems and liberals generally have of real world free market economics. They seem to think you can only make money through insider political deals.
 
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#52
#52
Beginning in 2018.

And the Cadillac plans will not be taxable to the individuals, but to the insurance companies and plan administrators.

From the Journal of Taxation -


As for the life-insurance, that is current law and not affected by this legislation either way.

And the reason for the premiums being on W-2's? Do you really think it is to help the IRS to keep up with insurance companies offering Cadillac plans?
 
#53
#53
You are either arguing semantics for some unknown reason or you are the one who is wrong.

Passing on the costs of taxes by businesses and the "rich" is not "theory". It is absolute FACT.

What many people (including some CPA's I guess) do not know is that many, many businesses operate on profit margins that aren't much better than a savings account. If their taxes go up then eihter they cut costs somewhere else (often labor costs) or else they raise prices or cut the value of products. The only other option is to go out of business.

If you want to know why investors aren't putting their money out there.... just ask yourself one question... if you could draw a guaranteed 3% or 4% or risk having new taxes make your net return less than that or even a loss.... which would you do.

I always surprised though I shouldn't be by how little understanding Dems and liberals generally have of real world free market economics. They seem to think you can only make money through insider political deals.

I get it. I understand it. And I agree I grasp economic principles. I think that's the third time I've said this in this thread. Don't think that because I am clarifying what the law says doesn't mean I believe it is a bad law because the last two major bills out of DC have been garbage.

All I was trying to do was correct an erroneous statement made earlier because I've had three or four clients call me freaking out about insurance premiums being taxable on their 1040 and it is wrong.

Rest assured I will not do that again.
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#54
#54
And the reason for the premiums being on W-2's? Do you really think it is to help the IRS to keep up with insurance companies offering Cadillac plans?

Actually it is to make sure tha every american has health insurance, not jusy cadillac plans. For some reason they decided a w-2 was the easiest way to track this.
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#55
#55
What many people (including some CPA's I guess) do not know is that many, many businesses operate on profit margins that aren't much better than a savings account. If their taxes go up then eihter they cut costs somewhere else (often labor costs) or else they raise prices or cut the value of products. The only other option is to go out of business.

exactly correct. the assumption here by obama et all is that this money is coming from a bunch of rich dudes who can afford it anyway. no doubt in my mind that we will see layoffs and companies going under because of this healthcare plan.
 
#56
#56
exactly correct. the assumption here by obama et all is that this money is coming from a bunch of rich dudes who can afford it anyway. no doubt in my mind that we will see layoffs and companies going under because of this healthcare plan.

won't most just opt out of the healthcare business altogether and simply pay the fines, which will be cheaper than their current HC bill?
 
#57
#57
The total value of my investments, and probably most other average investors, has gone through thge floor, thanks to George Bush. I wouldn't mind paying a little more taxes if the market would go up.

It sounds good to paint yourself as being for small business, investors and families, but just who is suffering now? Small business, investors and families, That's who. Thanks again to George Bush.

The people you are really for, big business, is not hurting at all though.
 
#58
#58
The total value of my investments, and probably most other average investors, has gone through thge floor, thanks to George Bush. I wouldn't mind paying a little more taxes if the market would go up.

It sounds good to paint yourself as being for small business, investors and families, but just who is suffering now? Small business, investors and families, That's who. Thanks again to George Bush.

The people you are really for, big business, is not hurting at all though.

Can you help with some explanantions here? Seems your cause and effect button is lost somewhere near your head.

The coolest piece of your response is going to be about more taxes helping your market position. Can't wait.
 
#59
#59
I get it. I understand it. And I agree I grasp economic principles. I think that's the third time I've said this in this thread. Don't think that because I am clarifying what the law says doesn't mean I believe it is a bad law because the last two major bills out of DC have been garbage.

All I was trying to do was correct an erroneous statement made earlier because I've had three or four clients call me freaking out about insurance premiums being taxable on their 1040 and it is wrong.

Rest assured I will not do that again.
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Good post. Gotcha. Sorry I didn't catch on before.
 
#60
#60
exactly correct. the assumption here by obama et all is that this money is coming from a bunch of rich dudes who can afford it anyway. no doubt in my mind that we will see layoffs and companies going under because of this healthcare plan.

The most frustrating and ironic thing about this is that the same people who buy that "tax the dirty rich guy" rhetoric wonder why their company benefits keep getting worse, more expensive, or both. They wonder why the job market stinks and their raises aren't good.

Very simply when businesses or the "rich" make money... they reinvest it and try to make more. That expands business. When many businesses expand then the demand on labor rises and usually exponentially. When that occurs there is healthy upward pressure on wage and benefit offerings. You end up with a win/win for employees and the companies they work for... the only losers are those who want gov't to control outcomes because someone who made poor decisions or lacks initiative didn't get their "fair share".

When you tax businesses or "the rich", it has the exact opposite effect... exponentially.

Yeah... I know. The left hates supply side economics even though it ALWAYS works. It worked to create jobs AND raise tax revenues for JFK, Reagan, and Bush 2. The problem budget wise with Reagan's cuts was that for every dollar in new revenue the Dem controlled Congress demanded two in spending as part of the deal to get it passed. The problem with Bush's tax cuts was that he and Congress spent like drunken sailors... trying to out liberal the Dems. I guess they thought the press would love them if they expanded entitlements and such. Their betrayal of principle is STILL frustrating.

The best example is JFK since his tax cuts occurred before the massive expansion of liberal programs during the 60's and 70's. At the height of Cold War defense spending... the US had negligible debt.
 
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#61
#61
won't most just opt out of the healthcare business altogether and simply pay the fines, which will be cheaper than their current HC bill?

that will happen as well. expect some major companies to drop their coverage and pay the fine.

The total value of my investments, and probably most other average investors, has gone through thge floor, thanks to George Bush. I wouldn't mind paying a little more taxes if the market would go up.

It sounds good to paint yourself as being for small business, investors and families, but just who is suffering now? Small business, investors and families, That's who. Thanks again to George Bush.

The people you are really for, big business, is not hurting at all though.

please explain specifically how george bush caused your investments to go through the floor. thanks much.
 
#63
#63
The total value of my investments, and probably most other average investors, has gone through thge floor, thanks to George Bush. I wouldn't mind paying a little more taxes if the market would go up.
Can you summarize for us why you think the market went belly up? I will agree that Bush's Keynsian/liberal policies and reactions during the last couple of years of his presidency have contributed to the problem. But far from being the "failed policies of the past"... they are very much in line with Obama's "failed policies of the present". Bush baled out corporations... Obama did it bigger. Bush signed a Dem Congress crafted stimulus plan... Obama did it bigger.

Early in his presidency when he still somewhat behaved as a conservative, Bush signed significant tax cuts in answer to a double dip recession (partly due to 9/11). Almost immediately, jobs were created and net tax revenues went up.

The biggest factor in the collapse was sub-prime loans which is the direct result of a liberal law passed by the Dems and Carter back in the 70's. As a companion, Freddie and Fannie were huge factors in the collapse. The third major factor is the liberal/Keynesian ideal of regulation and gov't control but "safety nets". The best regulation of the market comes from the fear of catastrophic business failure. Dem policies muted that fear and had people investing in improbable schemes because there was no risk to them.

For instance, I know someone who invested in an ethanol plant. The gov't guaranteed his principle. He literally couldn't lose even if the company failed. Only the taxpayer could lose.

It sounds good to paint yourself as being for small business, investors and families, but just who is suffering now? Small business, investors and families, That's who. Thanks again to George Bush.
Do you really think these people are hurting because taxes are too low? Do you think they are better off having rescued large corporations who made terrible business decisions? Do you think they were helped when the gov't bought GM stock with their money and gave it to the UAW? Maybe you think it is good for them when their employer's taxes go up and prevent them from expanding business, paying for better benefits, or giving good raises?

Bush's blame stems directly from doing the exact things Obama has done but bigger.

The people you are really for, big business, is not hurting at all though.

Really? The ones who aren't tied in snug with Dems ARE hurting. The ones who aren't getting baleouts and free taxpayer money... are suffering along with the rest of us.

There is a reason that the really big businesses (GM, Microsoft, Goldman-Sachs, et al) give as much or more to Dems as they do Republicans. Big gov't will ALWAYS accommodate these big business/big labor types. The Dems will always write them loopholes or exceptions. If they get hit in one place, they'll get some kind of credit or special treatment in another. Regulations are actually a protection for them... it prevents competition from getting into the game.

The US auto industry is the classic example of big gov't, big business, and big labor monopolizing an industry. They have snuffed out domestic start up competition leading to a very unhealthy industry.
 
#64
#64
2010-07-26-brief-cartoon.jpg
 
#66
#66
Pelosi is calling them the Obama Tax Cuts. Um, Nancy? They are the Bush tax cuts you are voting to extend. I know it is very difficult for you to verbally express you supporting an extension of anything Bush related. But to spin this any other way is just plain stupid. The sad part is that she says that cutting taxes on the rich does nothing but increase the deficit. Again, Nancy? Out of control spending have anything to do with that? A fundamental issue in DC - this is OUR money. YOU spend OUR money. YOU take OUR money out of OUR paycheck and blow it. And then when it comes to letting us keep more of OUR money you say it causes deficits. Oh the thinking of liberals.
 
#67
#67
Nancy Pelosi is one of the dumbest human beings to have ever held elective office. Compared to Pelosi, George W. Bush is the President of MENSA, Rod Wilkes, and Tim Tebow rolled into one single super-being.
 
#68
#68
:unsure:

Lincoln may seek compromise on Bush tax cuts - Yahoo! News

"As a part of that tax-writing committee, I think I have a responsibility along with other members of that committee to figure out whether we can find some sort of compromise of what is the best way to meet our objective of strengthening the economy and bringing down our debt and putting people back to work," Lincoln told The Associated Press in an interview.

Didn't Boehner catch all kinds of flak for using a similar tone in his Sunday interview about a month ago? At that time, it was looking like it would be the GOP capitulating.

Oh well... :zeitung_lesen:
 
#69
#69
The total value of my investments, and probably most other average investors, has gone through thge floor, thanks to George Bush. I wouldn't mind paying a little more taxes if the market would go up.

It sounds good to paint yourself as being for small business, investors and families, but just who is suffering now? Small business, investors and families, That's who. Thanks again to George Bush.

The people you are really for, big business, is not hurting at all though.

Interesting thought.
So you believe that if you give the government more money that it could make the economy better? I would suggest sending a check, with a letter to the government stating what you want your money to go toward to fix the problem. Then wait for the return on your investment.

As to the families you listed. Is it possible that the rich/Big business cats (which according to the "head honcho" is anyone above 250k) have made cuts in this bad economy that cost some of these families jobs?
 
#71
#71
I'm sure droski can attest to this as well to a degree, but can I tell you guys how much fun it is to tax plan right now when you really have no idea what is going to happen?
 
#72
#72
I'm sure droski can attest to this as well to a degree, but can I tell you guys how much fun it is to tax plan right now when you really have no idea what is going to happen?

i've been telling people to take their capital gains, but everyone is too terrified to do anything
 
#74
#74
i've been thinking about buying the ultra short gold etf for months now. thankfully i haven't done it, but imo it's an obvious bubble.
 
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