Jarnell Stokes names his top 3

#751
#751
cncchris33 said:
Wall was not committed. Cousins I don't think was officially. He had been committed to UAB for a time I believe to play for Mike Anderson. He did decommit, and it was expected he would choose Memphis. Xavier Henry was committed to Memphis.

Point still being, Pastner came into a situation at a program coming off of a recent appearance in the national championship game. So, without regard to Cal's grotesque pillaging of Memphis' recruiting class, Pastner's introduction to the head coaching job was a far cry from losing 4 starters from a fringe tournament team, that was still facing the real possibility of getting hammered by the NCAA. This further hindered any recruiting effort CCM could have possibly mustered at the last minute.

Which job opening would have been more appealing to you? One with the momentum of coming off a recent national championship appearance, or the one potentially losing 85% of its offense, coming off a 30-point blowout in the first round of the tourney, and facing some potentially stiff penalties from the NCAA that you had no hand in?
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Neither. Calipari left almost nothing at Memphis and no recruits
 
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#753
#753
zansdad said:
Neither. Calipari left almost nothing at Memphis and no recruits
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But the program was much closer to succes than Tennessee he's saying I believe. Tennessee had the possible hammer coming, possible bans and scholarship losses. Meanwhile, yes Memphis' recruiting class was trashed but the returned a team that was ranked pre season top 25 still. Pastners 1st Memphis team was picked to win the conference, make the tourney, and be a top 25 team. What was Tennessee picked to do in CCMs first year?

Allso, you can recruit Memphis, which in itself led Memphis to the #2 class in Pastners 2nd year, something CCM doesn't have the benefit of.

Memphis was definitely the more appealing job of the 2, but I wouldn't say either one was a top notch situation.
 
#754
#754
zansdad said:
From before Cal took UK job. Rivals.com Basketball Recruiting - Memphis moves to No. 1 in team rankings
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Ok, so I was right about everyone except Cousins was a public commitment, which I admitted was a little cloudy.. I stated Henry was committed and was correct that Wall had not committed to them at that point and was seriously considering Baylor and the Carolina schools as well at that point, in addition to Memphis.

My point remains the same. That singular recruiting class aside, Pastner walked into much more manageable situation than CCM did at Tennessee, if for no other reason, the immediate future of the program was in his hands as opposed to CCM, whose immediate ability to be successful was in the hands of the NCAA. As it turns out, the NCAA was merciful as it relates to Tennessee basketball, but Martin did not know that when he accepted the job, and thus, recruits did not know that either.

The proof is in each of their first full recruiting classes, respectively. Pastner signed what would have been the #1 class if not for Cal's super squad of 1st round talent. That Memphis class included 5 top-100 players. On the other hand, Martin managed to land Stokes due to some unique circumstances, along with Derek Reese, Demontre Edwards, and Armami Moore. Now you could draw two possible conclusions from this. One, Pastner is just the better salesman, or two, he had a better product/situation to sell. The truth may lie somewhere in between. Time will tell I guess, based on CCM's recruiting success in the future.

Admittedly, neither situation was your ideal setup to be immediately successful, but Memphis had the fertile recruiting grounds to pull from, which Pastner used to his advantage by securing Joe Jackson, Tarik Black, and Chris Crawford within that class. They also were not facing the immediate possibility of potential heavy sanctions from the NCAA.

Like I said, neither situation was ideal, but I don't see how its debatable as to which was the lesser of two bad options.
 
#755
#755
MemphisCanes said:
Pretty good. Got Adonis returning next season, plus a solid class. People are excited.
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Talent level IS NOT your problem....I think you know of what I speak!!!! For the games I attended coach DOES NOT have control of his bench in timeouts...team MUST take him serious...
 
#756
#756
UTFanForLife said:
Isn't Memphis going to big east? That road to the NCAAs might be a little tougher than the rec league they are used to.
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I don't think the "road to the NCAA's" will be tougher. Conference play will be tougher, but hell, USF made it to the dance out of the Big East last season, and UConn the season before. UConn was in 9th place in the Big East and was still projected in the field before they tore through the BE tourney.
 
#757
#757
cncchris33 said:
Wall was not committed. Cousins I don't think was officially. He had been committed to UAB for a time I believe to play for Mike Anderson. He did decommit, and it was expected he would choose Memphis. Xavier Henry was committed to Memphis.

Point still being, Pastner came into a situation at a program coming off of a recent appearance in the national championship game. So, without regard to Cal's grotesque pillaging of Memphis' recruiting class, Pastner's introduction to the head coaching job was a far cry from losing 4 starters from a fringe tournament team, that was still facing the real possibility of getting hammered by the NCAA. This further hindered any recruiting effort CCM could have possibly mustered at the last minute.

Which job opening would have been more appealing to you? One with the momentum of coming off a recent national championship appearance, or the one potentially losing 85% of its offense, coming off a 30-point blowout in the first round of the tourney, and facing some potentially stiff penalties from the NCAA that you had no hand in?
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Memphis made the sweet 16 the season before Cal left. Pastner lost Tyreke Evans, Antonio Anderson, Robert Dozier and Shawn Taggert as starters the year he took over, and was only able to sign 1 freshman in that year's recruiting class. Memphis was also facing looming NCAA punishments at the time.
 
#758
#758
tennrich1 said:
Talent level IS NOT your problem....I think you know of what I speak!!!! For the games I attended coach DOES NOT have control of his bench in timeouts...team MUST take him serious...
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I understand what you're saying. Team chemistry has been improving and the players are seeing Pastner more as a coach than an "ex-assistant" more every season.

The last of Cal's recruits have graduated and all of our plyers are now Pastner guys. We'll see if that helps the situation.
 
#759
#759
bleedingTNorange said:
But the program was much closer to succes than Tennessee he's saying I believe. Tennessee had the possible hammer coming, possible bans and scholarship losses. Meanwhile, yes Memphis' recruiting class was trashed but the returned a team that was ranked pre season top 25 still. Pastners 1st Memphis team was picked to win the conference, make the tourney, and be a top 25 team. What was Tennessee picked to do in CCMs first year?

Allso, you can recruit Memphis, which in itself led Memphis to the #2 class in Pastners 2nd year, something CCM doesn't have the benefit of.

Memphis was definitely the more appealing job of the 2, but I wouldn't say either one was a top notch situation.
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Memphis wasn't ranked top 25 Pastner's first year (that was his second year) and a lot of people picked UTEP and Tulsa to win C-USA that year.
 
#760
#760
MemphisCanes said:
Memphis made the sweet 16 the season before Cal left. Pastner lost Tyreke Evans, Antonio Anderson, Robert Dozier and Shawn Taggert as starters the year he took over, and was only able to sign 1 freshman in that year's recruiting class. Memphis was also facing looming NCAA punishments at the time.
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Sweet Sixteen sure beats a 30-point blowout in the first round. Memphis was being investigated for potential violations. Not much came of it. Tennessee had already faced judge and jury, and awaited the executioner. The looming possibilities of what might happen was punishment enough. Anyone with any sort of other options wasn't going to come within 100 miles of Knoxville.
 
#761
#761
MemphisCanes said:
I don't think the "road to the NCAA's" will be tougher. Conference play will be tougher, but hell, USF made it to the dance out of the Big East last season, and UConn the season before. UConn was in 9th place in the Big East and was still projected in the field before they tore through the BE tourney.
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Well it will be tougher, top to bottom the BE is way more competitive than anything Memphis is used to in Conference play. Pastner doesn't exactly strike me as an Xs and Os type guy, he has had talent and that talent was enough for teams in the CUSA. That talent will be matched or exceeded in the BE for the most part.
 
#762
#762
cncchris33 said:
Sweet Sixteen sure beats a 30-point blowout in the first round. Memphis was being investigated for potential violations. Not much came of it. Tennessee had already faced judge and jury, and awaited the executioner. The looming possibilities of what might happen was punishment enough. Anyone with any sort of other options wasn't going to come within 100 miles of Knoxville.
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The NCAA investigations were similar for each new coach, although Pastner actually took the job before he found out that an NCAA investigation was incoming.

CCM's first eyar and Pastner's first year are almost complete parallels of one another, down to the talent left on the roster and the exact moment of exit in the post season.

Elliot Williams - Jarnell Stokes- 5 star newcomer who probably saved each team from an invitation to the CBI.

Willie Kemp - Cam Tatum- 4 star seniors with starting experience. Neither ever lived up to their potential.

Roburt Sallie- Jeronne Maymon- 4 star junior. Shouldered a lot of scoring load and minutes.

Wesley Witherspoon- Trae Golden- 4 star sophomore. Flourished, although played out of position.

Will Coleman- Kenny Hall- 4 star junior. Somewhat soft for a post, but capable of solid games.

Angel Garcia- Renaldo Woolridge- 4 star. Never reached potential.

Doneal Mack- Jordan Mcrae- 4 star. Scorer, but streaky and not reliable.

Pierre Niles- Skyler McBee- Neither should've seen significant minutes on a high-major team, but each filled a desperate need.

Even both team's exits in the NIT (second round) were similar.
 
#763
#763
UTFanForLife said:
Well it will be tougher, top to bottom the BE is way more competitive than anything Memphis is used to in Conference play. Pastner doesn't exactly strike me as an Xs and Os type guy, he has had talent and that talent was enough for teams in the CUSA. That talent will be matched or exceeded in the BE for the most part.
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We'll definitely get more shots at that elusive top 25 win.
 
#764
#764
MemphisCanes said:
The NCAA investigations were similar for each new coach, although Pastner actually took the job before he found out that an NCAA investigation was incoming.

CCM's first eyar and Pastner's first year are almost complete parallels of one another, down to the talent left on the roster and the exact moment of exit in the post season.

Elliot Williams - Jarnell Stokes- 5 star newcomer who probably saved each team from an invitation to the CBI.

Willie Kemp - Cam Tatum- 4 star seniors with starting experience. Neither ever lived up to their potential.

Roburt Sallie- Jeronne Maymon- 4 star junior. Shouldered a lot of scoring load and minutes.

Wesley Witherspoon- Trae Golden- 4 star sophomore. Flourished, although played out of position.

Will Coleman- Kenny Hall- 4 star junior. Somewhat soft for a post, but capable of solid games.

Angel Garcia- Renaldo Woolridge- 4 star. Never reached potential.

Doneal Mack- Jordan Mcrae- 4 star. Scorer, but streaky and not reliable.

Pierre Niles- Skyler McBee- Neither should've seen significant minutes on a high-major team, but each filled a desperate need.

Even both team's exits in the NIT (second round) were similar.
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I'll concede there are some parallels. However, in terms of talent, Memphis knew what they had in players like Kemp, Williams, Mack, and Witherspoon. They had played extensively the year(s) prior. Tennessee had no idea with Golden, McRae, and Maymon, because they had not played hardly at all in their first season at UT. So, while in hindsight, two of those three ended performing rather well, it was a total unknown prior to this season.

Secondly, the University of Memphis is located in Memphis. Plenty of talent to pull from there locally for the hometown university. Tennessee would have a tough time drawing that type talent from Karns, Halls, South-Doyle high schools locally. Memphis had an easier fix than Tennessee with regards to recruiting because of the talent available in their backyard, and the expidited nature of the NCAA's decision for them. The NCAA dragged their feet with regard to Tennessee sabotaging any respectable recruiting effort for Martin from the start.

Thirdly, the NCAA issues were not similar at all. The issues at Tennessee were already proven, admitted, and awaiting the hand of justice from the NCAA. Pastner was already coaching Memphis, as you states, before anything broke on Cal's misdeeds.
 
#765
#765
cncchris33 said:
I'll concede there are some parallels. However, in terms of talent, Memphis knew what they had in players like Kemp, Williams, Mack, and Witherspoon. They had played extensively the year(s) prior. Tennessee had no idea with Golden, McRae, and Maymon, because they had not played hardly at all in their first season at UT. So, while in hindsight, two of those three ended performing rather well, it was a total unknown prior to this season.

Well, Williams hadn't played at all at Memphis (or Duke for that matter) and Witherspoon played minimally his freshman year.

Secondly, the University of Memphis is located in Memphis. Plenty of talent to pull from there locally for the hometown university. Tennessee would have a tough time drawing that type talent from Karns, Halls, South-Doyle high schools locally. Memphis had an easier fix than Tennessee with regards to recruiting because of the talent available in their backyard, and the expidited nature of the NCAA's decision for them. The NCAA dragged their feet with regard to Tennessee sabotaging any respectable recruiting effort for Martin from the start.

I was just talking about their first seasons. Recruiting between them since has been different.

Thirdly, the NCAA issues were not similar at all. The issues at Tennessee were already proven, admitted, and awaiting the hand of justice from the NCAA. Pastner was already coaching Memphis, as you states, before anything broke on Cal's misdeeds.

I don't see how it matters how far along in the process th investigations were. If anything, that makes it worse for Pastner because the investigation process (and all the negative recruiting that comes with it) was worse than the punishments for either school.
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.
 
#767
#767
MemphisCanes said:
Memphis wasn't ranked top 25 Pastner's first year (that was his second year) and a lot of people picked UTEP and Tulsa to win C-USA that year.
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My apologies I thought they were, however they did receive votes for top 25. Show me 1 vote by ANYONE that had Tennessee as top 25 this year...


This is 2009-2010 preseason ranking where Memphis did receive votes.
NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls - ESPN

Point being if you're atleast receiving top 25 votes your program is in much better shape for succes than another program picked to finish last in the SEC.
 
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#768
#768
bleedingTNorange said:
My apologies I thought they were, however they did receive votes for top 25. Show me 1 vote by ANYONE that had Tennessee as top 25 this year...


This is 2009-2010 preseason ranking where Memphis did receive votes.
NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls - ESPN

Point being if you're atleast receiving top 25 votes your program is in much better shape for succes than another program picked to finish last in the SEC.
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3. 3 votes.

Cornell received 3 votes in that poll as well.

Some idiot even gave South Carolina a vote.

3 top 25 votes doesn't mean much. There's a lot of infatuation with pollsters by you guys (both positive and negative). I've never understood it. They're just people. Sometimes, people who don't even pay much attention to basketball.
 
#769
#769
MemphisCanes said:
3. 3 votes.

Cornell received 3 votes in that poll as well.

Some idiot even gave South Carolina a vote.

3 top 25 votes doesn't mean much. There's a lot of infatuation with pollsters by you guys (both positive and negative). I've never understood it. They're just people. Sometimes, people who don't even pay much attention to basketball.
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I'm not saying theyre always right, but people thought they atleast had a team worthy of getting some votes.

Tennessee couldn't say the same.

As I've said neither was an ideal situation, but Memphis was the much more attractive job and closer to success IMO than Tennessee.
 
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