Jewish groups alarmed by Arizona's potential gas executions

#26
#26
Grand Vol said:
You're speaking to a former cop and investigator... Trust me, I know all about how unreliable eyewitness testimony is which is why I really never liked using it. This day in the digital age where nearly everything is captured on camera, eyewitness testimony should be a last resort and only needed by the victims in the crime as opposed to bystanders that "thought" they saw something.

I'm talking real, tangible, irrefutable evidence that removes the "probable" and makes it "certain" cause. Evidence so good it makes lawyers like you ask a client "what's your preferred last meal?"
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Even so, there will always be marginal cases.

And I still don't believe the government should be in the business of murdering its citizens.
 
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#27
#27
K-town Vol Fan said:
I dont recall seeing people in these professions being murdered in cold blood
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Well, the media loves to fan the flames of division with cop killers; so, you probably haven't heard about them. I'm pretty sure they happened.

Regardless, what's the difference in murdering a cop in cold blood and murdering a normal citizen in cold blood?
 
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#28
#28
ClearwaterVol said:
Even so, there will always be marginal cases.

And I still don't believe the government should be in the business of murdering its citizens.
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Again, I doubt there as many marginal cases as there were 30 years ago with as far as crime scene investigations has come.
 
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#31
#31
AshG said:
Pro-life, my ass.

I know I've run afoul of the party purity police with that comment, but I cannot reconcile killing one person for the death of others with my faith. Life without the possibility of parole is much more humane.

And a gas chamber at that. Apparently we have learned nothing from history.
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Eric Boyd deserves zero in terms of being 'humane' I understand where you are coming from but that POS deserves to be burned at the stake. He is evil incarnate. If I were Ms Christian's father I would be waiting for Vanessa Coleman to get out of prison and I'd put one right square in her face.
 
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#33
#33
allvol123 said:
Great example.
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Whenever I hear anyone argue against the death penalty, that pops right into my mind. How anyone can defend those scum as being remotely human is beyond me. I'd put them thru a wood chipper... anything as long as it was painful and slow.
 
#34
#34
SpaceCoastVol said:
Whenever I hear anyone argue against the death penalty, that pops right into my mind. How anyone can defend those scum as being remotely human is beyond me. I'd put them thru a wood chipper... anything as long as it was painful and slow.
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Totally agree. That taxpayers sustain their life for decades is a disgrace.
 
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#35
#35
My fallen core would love to see in-kind executions. But I can't let myself think that way. We are all Imago Dei, even those who commit the most heinous of crimes. Eric Boyd may have committed the crime physically, but how many of us have committed similar crimes in our hearts and minds?

That is why I push back so hard on othering and binary thought - when we highlight and focus on the differences and make them into insurmountable obstacles for those who differ from us to cross, we are only a step away from no longer seeing those different than us as not being Imago Dei.

Othering is the oxygen supply that feeds the flames of tyranny.
 
#36
#36
AshG said:
My fallen core would love to see in-kind executions. But I can't let myself think that way. We are all Imago Dei, even those who commit the most heinous of crimes. Eric Boyd may have committed the crime physically, but how many of us have committed similar crimes in our hearts and minds?

That is why I push back so hard on othering and binary thought - when we highlight and focus on the differences and make them into insurmountable obstacles for those who differ from us to cross, we are only a step away from no longer seeing those different than us as not being Imago Dei.
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I have never though anything remotely close to what he and that band of thugs did. We can agree to disagree if you want, but they should either be in complete solitary in a 6x5 forever or d.e.a.d.
 
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#37
#37
AshG said:
but how many of us have committed similar crimes in our hearts and minds?.
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Difference in thinking and doing. Everyone has a dark side to them. Everyone is capable of doing vile things.

Our minds keep us from doing things we knew to be morally or ethically wrong.
 
#38
#38
Grand Vol said:
Difference in thinking and doing. Everyone has a dark side to them. Everyone is capable of doing vile things.

Our minds keep us from doing things we knew to be morally or ethically wrong.
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ie..conscience
 
#39
#39
Two things.

There is a tendency to try leaning heavily on the "but what if we're wrong?" approach and it's real. It also dismisses the idea that there are those where there isn't even an argument of being wrong. While only one way to look at it one of the canaries in the mine is if the lawyers are even attempting to argue "wasn't me". You know the ones...everybody knows they did it BUT it needs explained to you how twinkies, talking dogs and growing up rich made them do it. Yes there are some iffy cases out there, the more historical generally the most iffy. There are also absolutely, positively with zero ambiguity.

I've more than once offered up that just killing people is generally a waste no matter the certainty of savagery of the crime. Damn near every part of a human can be anywhere from helpful to life saving for people much more deserving. Be it lungs/kidneys/livers/hearts/corneas/bone marrow/whatever there are good people out there that can make the world a better place if given the opportunity. Those other "people"? Part 'em out like cars after matching the DNA.
 
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#40
#40
SpaceCoastVol said:
I have never though anything remotely close to what he and that band of thugs did. We can agree to disagree if you want, but they should either be in complete solitary in a 6x5 forever or d.e.a.d.
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To kill is to kill, no matter how heinous or disgusting. A life has ended.
 
#42
#42
SpaceCoastVol said:
You should read about what they did.
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I have. It disgusts me to this day. My first thought was that they should be chopped up and put into barrels while alive and left to die, as they did their victims. But my faith reminds me that God will take care of them in the fullness of time. Vengeance is not ours, but God's. Until that time, they should be incarcerated.
 
#44
#44
I think we should let the victims family decide what sentence they get. If someone killed my mother why should some bleeding heart liberal like AshG get to decide whether he lives or dies? After all it wasn't his mother was it?
 
#45
#45
VolStrom said:
I think we should let the victims family decide what sentence they get. If someone killed my mother why should some bleeding heart liberal like AshG get to decide whether he lives or dies? After all it wasn't his mother was it?
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If my Christian faith makes me liberal, then so be it.

I say again: othering is the oxygen that feeds the fires of tyranny.
 
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#46
#46
Grand Vol said:
You know Ash, I respect your position here, I really do.

But you should be grateful knowing there are people in this world that are more than happy to arrange an early meeting for the application of that vengeance.
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If someone believes they are the hand of God and expedites their judgement, then that is between them and the Almighty.
 
#48
#48
AshG said:
I have. It disgusts me to this day. My first thought was that they should be chopped up and put into barrels while alive and left to die, as they did their victims. But my faith reminds me that God will take care of them in the fullness of time. Vengeance is not ours, but God's. Until that time, they should be incarcerated.
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The death penalty shouldn't be about vengeance. It's about punishment, but it's also a form of self-defense. And I'm not sure I see life imprisonment as adequate punishment when there's a fair argument to be made those guys have it better than our homeless population.
 
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#49
#49
AshG said:
If someone believes they are the hand of God and expedites their judgement, then that is between them and the Almighty.
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There's an old saying about how the Lord has the ability to pick the tools He needs for the job. Or something like that.

Doesn't have to be someone believing they are the Hand of God..
 
#50
#50
Grand Vol said:
There's an old saying about how the Lord has the ability to pick the tools He needs for the job. Or something like that.

Doesn't have to be someone believing they are the Hand of God..
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Job Ch 38- Ch 42 is where that comes from.
 
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