Jon Gruden thread (merged)

[GmanTN]

Didn't watch the game huh?

I was at the game, your point?

I saw players frustrated and a lack of leadership on the field, that has more to do with maturity of the players to react to adversity and over come verses quitting.

 

[BigOrangeFanatic]

No, crawling into a shell is backing away from pressure. One doesn't go in a shell cause they quit, they go in a shell cause they are scared.

And Why in the freaking world are they scared?

 

['Boro-vol]

No, crawling into a shell is backing away from pressure. One doesn't go in a shell cause they quit, they go in a shell cause they are scared.

Putting kind of a fine point on it aren't you?

 

[Burger]

No, crawling into a shell is backing away from pressure. One doesn't go in a shell cause they quit, they go in a shell cause they are scared.

What's the difference between that and quitting? Either way your losing.

 

[orangetanker11]

Neither of those say they quit. I would go with couldn't handle the pressure before I went with quit on those quotes.

Right, because you can really put up a fight in a shell.

 

[UTFanForLife]

Comes from the top down. I say this because this isn't a one game occurrence. It's a trend.

I'm not disagreeing with that. But the words in that quote doesn't suggest quitting. Lack of leadership, lack of confidence, lack of composure. I would have used any of those. And yes those start at the top.

 

['Boro-vol]

I was at the game, your point?

I saw players frustrated and a lack of leadership on the field, that has more to do with maturity of the players to react to adversity and over come verses quitting.

My point is that it was evident mid 3rd quarter that they quit. They certainly didn't follow the maxim and "put on more steam" when the breaks went against them. They folded, like Dooley led teams have always done when faced with that situation.

 

[UTFanForLife]

What's the difference between that and quitting? Either way your losing.

Big difference. One can teach how to handle adversity, one can learn too.

 

[Burger]

I'm not disagreeing with that. But the words in that quote doesn't suggest quitting. Lack of leadership, lack of confidence, lack of composure. I would have used any of those. And yes those start at the top.

Is rather have quitters than puppies.. Quitting is when you lay by the side and take the ass kickin

 

[GmanTN]

If we had beaten Florida, we would have shown improvement and this thread would never have been started....until we sleepwalked through the Akron game, or lost all 3 in October.

Nobody wants this simply for the sake of change. Not even the people who are reaching out to guage the interest of several possible replacements. It's happening because of a pattern.

Ever occur to you that Hart is simply trying to guage interest and create a list of possible coaches in the event a change is needed. I do not think an AD would be very good if they were not prepared in the event a coach change is needed whether it be football, basketball or baseball and did not have an action plan in place.

 

[orangetanker11]

I'm not disagreeing with that. But the words in that quote doesn't suggest quitting. Lack of leadership, lack of confidence, lack of composure. I would have used any of those. And yes those start at the top.

In his third year, those things shouldn't be an issue. Especially in the Florida game where Dooley had his best shot of winning a "big one."

 

[UTFanForLife]

Putting kind of a fine point on it aren't you?

Not a fine point, that's the very definition of going into a shell. Someone has to step up and lead on the field, someone has to come out of that shell. Too many followers.

 

[BigT_Chief]

Big difference. One can teach how to handle adversity, one can learn too.

But it hasn't happened in 3 years. What makes you think it will magically happen now?

 

['Boro-vol]

Ever occur to you that Hart is simply trying to guage interest and create a list of possible coaches in the event a change is needed. I do not think an AD would be very good if they were not prepared in the event a coach change is needed whether it be football, basketball or baseball and did not have an action plan in place.

Yes it has. Isn't it strange when we agree?

Makes me feel funny.

 

[VOLnMiami]

So you Grudites want to hire as a College football coach a guy whos biggest flaw as a HC is that he totally sucks a$$ at developing young talent? Brilliant.

I'll take my chances :thumbsup:

 

['Boro-vol]

Not a fine point, that's the very definition of going into a shell. Someone has to step up and lead on the field, someone has to come out of that shell. Too many followers.

You're leaving out a very large component....willfully I think. The coach.

 

[UTFanForLife]

In his third year, those things shouldn't be an issue. Especially in the Florida game where Dooley had his best shot of winning a "big one."

Sure it can. How many senior leaders we have? Your QB is supposed to be your leader, but that's not his mental makeup. I can lead you all day, up to you to follow in my footsteps. Dooley can drill responsibility and leadership into these kids heads all day long, its up to one of them to step up to the challenge.

The buck stops with Dooley, I'm not disputing that. I can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink.

 

['Boro-vol]

Sure it can. How many senior leaders we have? Your QB is supposed to be your leader, but that's not his mental makeup. I can lead you all day, up to you to follow in my footsteps. Dooley can drill responsibility and leadership into these kids heads all day long, its up to one of them to step up to the challenge.

The buck stops with Dooley, I'm not disputing that. I can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink.

Maybe another coach can.

 

[UTFanForLife]

You're leaving out a very large component....willfully I think. The coach.

Nope, have said twice now that it stops with Dooley. But again, one can only lead so far, eventually someone has to step up.

 

[UTFanForLife]

Maybe another coach can.

No coach can. It's up to the individual

 

[UTFanForLife]

But it hasn't happened in 3 years. What makes you think it will magically happen now?

We will find out in 5 weeks.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

I'm not disagreeing with that. But the words in that quote doesn't suggest quitting. Lack of leadership, lack of confidence, lack of composure. I would have used any of those. And yes those start at the top.

Got it. I'm talking about the lack of focus late in games.

 

['Boro-vol]

Nope, have said twice now that it stops with Dooley. But again, one can only lead so far, eventually someone has to step up.

See reponse above. I won't flog the deceased equine.

We agree, but are in different places about it.

 

[BigOrangeFanatic]

Sure it can. How many senior leaders we have? Your QB is supposed to be your leader, but that's not his mental makeup. I can lead you all day, up to you to follow in my footsteps. Dooley can drill responsibility and leadership into these kids heads all day long, its up to one of them to step up to the challenge.

The buck stops with Dooley, I'm not disputing that. I can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink.

Since when does being a Senior have to do with leadership? I understand experience helps, but we have plenty of Juniors who have played a lot of football that can also be leaders.

 

['Boro-vol]

No coach can. It's up to the individual

We disagree here....and that is ok. I've seen the difference new coaching blood can make, in my own son. Styles are different, personas are different, and they effect kids differently.