Josh Pate insults Pat Forde

[Okie]

It very well could lead to salary caps, but NIL isn’t salary, so it wouldn’t be cheating to make money for appearances, signatures, etc. The collectives would still offer NIL deals that go above and beyond the salary caps.

I see collectives and everything else that is trying to get money from "regular guys" (not big money donors) really struggling if players are employees. IMO, most people are not going to give any more than they have to in order to get their tickets (ticket fee plus donor requirement).

 

[VFL-82-JP]

That's going to happen all over college sports when it's all said and done. Many smaller colleges and universities will have no choice but to shut down their athletic programs.

I don't get this viewpoint, at all.

Think how the law of supply and demand translates to recruiting:

There are far more high school football players (and basketball, and track, and lacrosse, and so on) who want to play at the college level than there are universities with big academic budgets. The best players will go to the schools whose NIL co-ops have deep pockets, sure, but that will still leave tons of high school wannabes to fill the rosters of all the other schools.

In short, there is no shortage of supply. Which means demand will be satisfied. The rich will eat first, but there are still plenty of leftovers for even the tightest budget schools.

And how those smaller schools survive financially won't change, either: they'll get 80% of their whole university athletic budget for the year by playing an away game against Tennessee or Texas.

So I'm not getting how any of this changes, really. Explain?

Thanks.

 

[VolBalla2014]

The ON3 college guy is annoying and his show is over produced. But Pate is amazing

I like the subjects he covers, but JD should not be on camera. He slurs his words so much

 

[UTodd01]

I like the subjects he covers, but JD should not be on camera. He slurs his words so much

JD and Pate are still better than anything on mainstream media.

 

[Vol737]

I don't get this viewpoint, at all.

The law of supply and demand says, those rich people who are willing to spend big bucks, they'll get first choice. When they've bought their fill, then the middle class people will buy what they can afford from what's left. And after they're all done in the market, the lower class folks will buy the more cheaply made, cost-effective alternative stuff, and the "good stuff" that has been marked down to sell.

Translate that to the supply and demand of recruiting:

There are far more high school football players (and basketball, and track, and lacrosse, and so on) who want to play at the college level than there are universities with big academic budgets. The best players will go to the schools whose NIL co-ops have deep pockets, sure, but that will still leave tons of high school wannabes to fill the rosters of all the other schools.

And how those smaller schools survive financially won't change, either: they'll get 80% of their whole university athletic budget for the year by playing an away game against Tennessee or Texas.

So I'm not getting how any of this changes, really. Explain?

Thanks.

I think it comes down to budgets with smaller colleges and universities. If the NLRB is saying these athletes are all employees, where is the money going to come from at the Division III or NAIA to fund all of their sports? Most all of these schools don't have the opportunity to go collect a pay day from a game against Tennessee or Texas. How do collective bargaining outcomes play into this if these schools are held to that standard? With a smaller alumni base, I don't think a lot of these schools can count on donations/boosters to carry the load in many cases. Sure, the larger universities will be able to adapt and still adjust to supply and demand issues, but I was really referring to the types of schools I just mentioned. A lot of smaller schools don't even offer scholarships unless it's a money making sport. I'm not sure how the pie gets divided up in those instances. Just a lot of moving parts that I don't have the answers to, but I can see where this could become a problem for schools that are already strapped for funds.

 

[Vol8188]

I like the subjects he covers, but JD should not be on camera. He slurs his words so much

His face is too punchable, his show is overproduced, and he seems to bring up TN constantly for the clicks. Just feels disingenuous

 

[Vol8188]

I don't get this viewpoint, at all.

Think how the law of supply and demand translates to recruiting:

There are far more high school football players (and basketball, and track, and lacrosse, and so on) who want to play at the college level than there are universities with big academic budgets. The best players will go to the schools whose NIL co-ops have deep pockets, sure, but that will still leave tons of high school wannabes to fill the rosters of all the other schools.

In short, there is no shortage of supply. Which means demand will be satisfied. The rich will eat first, but there are still plenty of leftovers for even the tightest budget schools.

And how those smaller schools survive financially won't change, either: they'll get 80% of their whole university athletic budget for the year by playing an away game against Tennessee or Texas.

So I'm not getting how any of this changes, really. Explain?

Thanks.

The problem is if you label them as employees, how many schools can afford to pay even a small salary? Especially to non revenue sports. Can Dartmouth provide a minimum wage salary to their rowing team? I doubt it.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I think it comes down to budgets with smaller colleges and universities. If the NLRB is saying these athletes are all employees, where is the money going to come from at the Division III or NAIA to fund all of their sports? Most all of these schools don't have the opportunity to go collect a pay day from a game against Tennessee or Texas. How do collective bargaining outcomes play into this if these schools are held to that standard? With a smaller alumni base, I don't think a lot of these schools can count on donations/boosters to carry the load in many cases. Sure, the larger universities will be able to adapt and still adjust to supply and demand issues, but I was really referring to the types of schools I just mentioned. A lot of smaller schools don't even offer scholarships unless it's a money making sport. I'm not sure how the pie gets divided up in those instances. Just a lot of moving parts that I don't have the answers to, but I can see where this could become a problem for schools that are already strapped for funds.

But what standard are they being held to? If they're poor, they're poor. They only pay what they can afford to pay. If they can't afford to pay anything, they take the players who are willing to play sports without pay, just for the love of it. And there are a LOT of players out there, in all sports (yes, including football and basketball) who would still play if no one were willing to pay them.

The problem is if you label them as employees, how many schools can afford to pay even a small salary? Especially to non revenue sports. Can Dartmouth provide a minimum wage salary to their rowing team? I doubt it.

Ditto. And keep in mind: the players with NIL deals, they're employees of the NIL co-ops (or, in many cases, self-employed under contract). They're not employees of the universities, and I don't believe they ever will be. That's not the model we're evolving toward.

The smaller schools are gonna be fine, I think. They'll compete at their own level and be fine.

 

[Vol8188]

But what standard are they being held to? If they're poor, they're poor. They only pay what they can afford to pay. If they can't afford to pay anything, they take the players who are willing to play sports without pay

You’re assuming this will be allowed. Minimum wage laws and laws requiring you make x amount if a salaried employee, could destroy those programs.

Granted, we will have to see if the courts try applying those laws here or if they allow players at smaller programs to accept “volunteer” status

 

[sjt18]

Why would it lead to salary caps

It empowers them... and it is what many fans and the universities want.

If you work for someone else then you are subject to a salary cap whether you realize it or not. I have a pay scale with medians for each position. We typically start people at 80-85% of their median. High performers achieve the median faster but they all move toward the median. After getting there the resistance grows. Only in very special cases can I ever pay someone more than about 110% of their median.

Eventually the scale moves and loosens things up due to inflation. But even the best employees have their raises slow as they move past the median. That's an effective salary cap.

Another way of looking at it is that my labor budget is limited to a certain amount. Even if the above were not true I would have to find a way to distribute those limited funds equitably. To pay one QB $5 million... you might have to pay your back up $1 million and accept a lower quality player.

Why do you think they WANT to have them become employees?

Oh, if declared employees then the "employers" also gain more power over what they can do for a side gig... like NIL.

 

[Vol8188]

It empowers them... and it is what many fans and the universities want.

If you work for someone else then you are subject to a salary cap whether you realize it or not. I have a pay scale with medians for each position. We typically start people at 80-85% of their median. High performers achieve the median faster but they all move toward the median. After getting there the resistance grows. Only in very special cases can I ever pay someone more than about 110% of their median.

Eventually the scale moves and loosens things up due to inflation. But even the best employees have their raises slow as they move past the median. That's an effective salary cap.

Another way of looking at it is that my labor budget is limited to a certain amount. Even if the above were not true I would have to find a way to distribute those limited funds equitably. To pay one QB $5 million... you might have to pay your back up $1 million and accept a lower quality player.

Why do you think they WANT to have them become employees?

Oh, if declared employees then the "employers" also gain more power over what they can do for a side gig... like NIL.

I don’t think a salary cap empowers anyone. Nor is it needed. Allocate your own resources as you see fit. Each team is capable of self regulating or that extent the same way each company already does

 

[feathersax]

I've recently become a Josh Pate fan. He NAILED sick pseudo-journalist Pat Forde to the wall. Kudos! GO BIG ORANGE;

 

[VolDave53]

The problem is if you label them as employees, how many schools can afford to pay even a small salary? Especially to non revenue sports. Can Dartmouth provide a minimum wage salary to their rowing team? I doubt it.

Just my humble opinion, but I believe that any of these schools can afford to pay for anything they really desire. The cost of tuition, the fortunes being willed by the alumni, the non-profit status on huge profit making all point to the fact that schools, like individual people, can afford anything thy put their mind to.

 

[Vol8188]

Just my humble opinion, but I believe that any of these schools can afford to pay for anything they really desire. The cost of tuition, the fortunes being willed by the alumni, the non-profit status on huge profit making all point to the fact that schools, like individual people, can afford anything thy put their mind to.

You’re very mistaken if you think all programs have those things you listed. I’m not sure Grand Valley State has “fortunes being willed by the alumni” nor “huge profit making”

My point isn’t “Michigan can’t afford to play players”. It’s that there’s many schools who cannot. And even the ones who can, may not be able to afford the sports that aren’t making profits

 

[OrangeTsar]

I hadn’t thought about how no state income tax would be a recruiting advantage for us. Nice.

Another benefit of fiscal sanity by the Legislature. They don’t always get things right so let’s celebrate them when they do

 

[OrangeTsar]

Just my humble opinion, but I believe that any of these schools can afford to pay for anything they really desire. The cost of tuition, the fortunes being willed by the alumni, the non-profit status on huge profit making all point to the fact that schools, like individual people, can afford anything thy put their mind to.

Yeah, just check out the average salaries for college “administrators”. Most major colleges are awash in funds. They just don’t like to spread them around outside the admin building.

 

[turbovol]

Remember, while some media agencies has hated on us, other media has had our back like On3, Late Kick, etc. Support the media that has defend us.

For example, Andy Staples at On3 has had our back throughout.

Who gives a flip what some guy on YouTube says? Your noun/verb agreements are not quite right......

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Josh Pate joins too many other people in missing the obvious.

He insists on presuming the universities and/or conferences will eventually enter into financial relationships with the players. As employers, or independent contractors, or whatever.

But that's not how things have evolved so far. That's not how they will evolve if the schools don't want to become employers of student-athletes.

It can stay with NIL co-ops forever. Just as it is now.

It can even evolve so that the universities and/or conferences cost-share their profits out, like pirate booty...THROUGH the NIL co-ops.

Say Tennessee nets $10m in profit in the football program after all expenses (including paying for the olympic sports, as they do today). They can send half of that to Spyre, with a stipulation: equal shares to all 120 players on the football roster.

And voila, the university never pays any player a penny. Never opens any contracts. Never worries about labor unions or collectective bargaining or any of that. Just donates money to the NIL cause, much as any rich booster would.

If I were a university president or athletic director, continuing down the road WE'RE ALREADY ON, via NIL collectives, would by far be my #1 choice.

On campus, the student-athletes remain amateurs.

Off campus, they are professional athletes selling their NIL value.

And never the twain need meet.

Josh missed that. Too many people seem to be missing that.

Makes me scratch my head, it does.

Go Vols!

 

[Other_Guy]

It's the same guy IMO. They even have the same t-shirt mess going on.

What??? They aren't even close lol

 

[fossilfiction]

What??? They aren't even close lol

To me they are. Both have the same pep, the same topics, just different hair.

 

[WillisWG]

pay players a game day per diem

 

[LittleVol]

Josh Pate joins too many other people in missing the obvious.

He insists on presuming the universities and/or conferences will eventually enter into financial relationships with the players. As employers, or independent contractors, or whatever.

But that's not how things have evolved so far. That's not how they will evolve if the schools don't want to become employers of student-athletes.

It can stay with NIL co-ops forever. Just as it is now.

It can even evolve so that the universities and/or conferences cost-share their profits out, like pirate booty...THROUGH the NIL co-ops.

Say Tennessee nets $10m in profit in the football program after all expenses (including paying for the olympic sports, as they do today). They can send half of that to Spyre, with a stipulation: equal shares to all 120 players on the football roster.

And voila, the university never pays any player a penny. Never opens any contracts. Never worries about labor unions or collectective bargaining or any of that. Just donates money to the NIL cause, much as any rich booster would.

If I were a university president or athletic director, continuing down the road WE'RE ALREADY ON, via NIL collectives, would by far be my #1 choice.

On campus, the student-athletes remain amateurs.

Off campus, they are professional athletes selling their NIL value.

And never the twain need meet.

Josh missed that. Too many people seem to be missing that.

Makes me scratch my head, it does.

Go Vols!

well said.

 

[Vol8188]

Who gives a flip what some guy on YouTube says? Your noun/verb agreements are not quite right......

Grandpa, that “guy on YouTube”, has a larger viewership than ESPN could dream about

 

[OrangeInKy]

I lived near Louisville, Ky growing up. So I had to read that communist Courier Journal. Pat Forde was a sports writer at the time. He HATES the SEC, and especially Tennessee. Anytime he opens his mouth shut off the sound.

I was there when he wrote for them too. Over 20 years ago. Him and Rick Bozich, whom I didn’t mind. Never liked Forde though. Always pompous.

 

[Mccage]

The problem is if you label them as employees, how many schools can afford to pay even a small salary? Especially to non revenue sports. Can Dartmouth provide a minimum wage salary to their rowing team? I doubt it.

So those Dartmouth Alumni are poor?