Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Volinnooga]

I don’t have anyone in particular in mind but just think that KJH is not the person to move the program to the level of past years. I also acknowledge that perhaps that person doesn’t exist anymore. However, Staley, Mulkey and Vanderveer have done very well over the years. Why? Because good, smart players want to play for them as they did with Summit. Not so with Harper.

So, in other words, I can pinpoint what I think is the problem but I got no solution.

 

[madtownvol]

Should’ve been Hammon from the jump

Could have easily happened if Fulmer had just sent a SWAT team to kidnap her and then force her to coach the team at gunpoint. Otherwise, this job was not one she was the least bit interested in.

 

[Majors]

More negative sports press today. 1:08:45secs, they talk Lady Vols and why it’s time to pull the plug. Interesting comment, “they should hire someone who never met Pat Summitt.”

That’s an honest assessment on the state of the program. From losing the two big stage games to losing with majority of your players now.

 

[Spook1]

The jury is still out on Kellie , if she didn't lose senior Keys for the season it might be a different scenario. My problem is I don't see any plays being implemented, no Xs and Os , no rotation certainties, damn she really seem lose this year. She wasn't all that bad when she had Rennia , Sugar Rae , Jordan , Key and that squad. But that's a wide gap between that team and this team, take a guess where the difference is. Can we say also that she took two damaged players out the portal , a pg that's not better than the players (Wynn, Miles)she already had, a freshman she seem to not have playing time for , and slow flat footed players she starts and have too much loyalty towards.
IDK...I'm not a coach but I believe I can do better in some areas than them. She need to purge her coaching staff ( especially her husband) and bring in a better staff ( development, Xs and Os) , if she wants to continue because the fanbase is starting to sound like the Holly warlick era ( real fed up ). Show people you know what to do with talent you have.
IDK buy its the first time I turned from a lady vols game , it was hard to watch ,really.

The possibility exists that the LV may not make the championship games for the first time ever. Remember when Pat Summit needed a couple of players and went to the Junior Colleges for two and won two national championships with them....maybe CH needs to do the same.

 

[volfanstuckinga]

Becky Hammon. Throw a boatload of cash at her and bring her into the NCAA. Promise her the world, it would be worth it.

I am ok with this as well

 

[volfanstuckinga]

In my humble opinion, Kellie deserves at least two more years. Rome was not built in a day. GBO.

Well she's in year FOUR....have you noticed what's happened in Baton Rouge in TWO YEARS? And we aren't exactly trending up now are we?

 

[volforlife10]

Well she's in year FOUR....have you noticed what's happened in Baton Rouge in TWO YEARS? And we aren't exactly trending up now are we?

with the schedule lsu has, i’d expect any decent team to be close to undefeated. no excuse not to be.

 

[mudcat1973]

He should of been an advisor/analyst from the start.

What’s crazy in all of this is the X factor of March Madness. The latest bracketology released today with TN a 7seed in a bracket they could absolutely ride all the way to a Final4View attachment 533966

wrong with that. most of you all wants tenn miss ncaa so danny white drops the hammer for sure.

 

[volfanstuckinga]

with the schedule lsu has, i’d expect any decent team to be close to undefeated. no excuse not to be.

AND they just beat us....so there's that

 

[Volstylexx]

wrong with that. most of you all wants tenn miss ncaa so danny white drops the hammer for sure.

I haven’t seen a single poster say they hope we lose so they fire her. An elite8 run would absolutely save her.

 

[mudcat1973]

That’s an honest assessment on the state of the program. From losing the two big stage games to losing with majority of your players now.

didn't pat have from four ast coaches during kellie playing days? demoss,hollie,al brown,and maybe dean? maybe time to bring in offence coach who can run offence like stanford can tess, sara , pissott open threes .

 

[spojo13]

If I’m Danny White, I’d take a look at Teri Moren. Has done a great job at a school that really has no women’s basketball support and does the best with the recruits that she has been getting. Has won more games, made an elite eight and I think a few sweet sixteens with nowhere near the support UT has. Has her current team in the mix for a 1 seed at 20-1. You’d probably not have to break the bank to pull her away from IU.

 

[spojo13]

Posted this is in a different thread so sorry for redundancy. But what about Teri Moren? Has done a great job at a school that really has no women’s basketball support and does the best with the recruits that she has been getting. Has won more games, made an elite eight and I think a few sweet sixteens with nowhere near the support UT has. Has her current team in the mix for a 1 seed at 20-1. You’d probably not have to break the bank to pull her away from IU.

 

[Rixxx]

Could have easily happened if Fulmer had just sent a SWAT team to kidnap her and then force her to coach the team at gunpoint. Otherwise, this job was not one she was the least bit interested in.

I don't know if any pro coaches would be interested. I think recruiting would not be their most favorite thing to do.

 

[GameTime]

Mud, our offense is similar to the kind of offense you see ran at your local rec center....It's the non motion offense...

 

[Majors]

didn't pat have from four ast coaches during kellie playing days? demoss,hollie,al brown,and maybe dean? maybe time to bring in offence coach who can run offence like stanford can tess, sara , pissott open threes .

Al Brown was later on. I could be wrong but thought Al came on after Demoss left. Leaving Dean and Holly

 

[Orange_Mamba]

Could have easily happened if Fulmer had just sent a SWAT team to kidnap her and then force her to coach the team at gunpoint. Otherwise, this job was not one she was the least bit interested in.

But wasn’t she interested in the Vandy or Duke job. I forgot which one it was when it came open.

 

[Majors]

AND they just beat us....so there's that

Not really understanding how anyone wants to go the route of LSU’s schedule when they knocked us off. Now 21-0

 

[madtownvol]

But wasn’t she interested in the Vandy or Duke job. I forgot which one it was when it came open.

I could be wrong but I don't think so, When Kara left her assistant coach role with the Boston Celtics to go to Duke, there was some buzz that Boston might go after Hammond as her replacement. So maybe that is the connection you are recalling.

I think BH's main goal is to become an NBA head coach but she took the Las Vegas WNBA job because it was her fastest path to becoming a pro head coach.

 

[Coach Jumper]

wrong with that. most of you all wants tenn miss ncaa so danny white drops the hammer for sure.

not all of us mudcat.

I will give my personal take for what it's worth...

I have stated several times and I back Kellie 100% and do.
But I have also said I am UT-program #1,,the players #2,,the coaches #3
Both are true
Have I been critical of her, absolutely, and will be until she coaches to the Tennessee level she signed up for.

I want to see Coach Kellie Harper stop trying to be a "players coach" and start being a "winner coach."
Yes we have won a lot of games,, but none of the wins were games suppose to lose.
And therein is the problem
To be a true elite program you have to win the games you are supposed to and steal some of the games you are not supposed to win.

we have done A,,,not B

Here's my take...
Our losses (in order) and their present rank per AP-poll and their preseason rankings:
Ohio ST #10 (Preseason # 14)
Indiana #4 (Preseason # 11)
UCLA #14 (Preseason # unranked)
Gonzaga #17 (Preseason # unranked)
Va Tech #13 (Preseason # 13)
Stanford #2 (Preseason # 2)
UCONN #5 (Preseason # 6)
LSU #3 (Preseason # 16)
** Tennessee (Preseason # 5) **

Only one was ranked above us preseason
Every one of them has achieved or overachieved
We haven't
in fact we have severely underachieved
Further...
Several of those games were very winnable during their playing.

Yes we lost Tamari Key and to a lesser extent (Suarez and Rennie)
But we still have two players projected to be lottery picks (Horston and Jackson),,and some of those teams we lost to, cannot say that!

Finally
This is Tennessee
that used to mean something to everyone,,,the very mention of having to play us instilled fear in every opponent....Now, it seems, they look forward to "payback city" and that makes my fur stand on end!

Personally I see the same 4 things happening in every one of those losses:

1. Going home with timeouts that could have been used to try to stop double digit runs
2. Substitutions without purpose
3. Not recognizing when we are going into stagnation on offense and doing something about it right then.
4. Not starting the five players who are playing the best basketball at the time of each event and continuing to start those five until someone TAKES their spot

 

[madtownvol]

Jon Grudin.

Gruden would be the LVs coach right now if not for the "blue hair" mafia!!!!

 

[J-Dog 1313]

This anaysis

not all of us mudcat.

I will give my personal take for what it's worth...

I have stated several times and I back Kellie 100% and do.
But I have also said I am UT-program #1,,the players #2,,the coaches #3
Both are true
Have I been critical of her, absolutely, and will be until she coaches to the Tennessee level she signed up for.

I want to see Coach Kellie Harper stop trying to be a "players coach" and start being a "winner coach."
Yes we have won a lot of games,, but none of the wins were games suppose to lose.
And therein is the problem
To be a true elite program you have to win the games you are supposed to and steal some of the games you are not supposed to win.

we have done A,,,not B

Here's my take...
Our losses (in order) and their present rank per AP-poll and their preseason rankings:
Ohio ST #10 (Preseason # 14)
Indiana #4 (Preseason # 11)
UCLA #14 (Preseason # unranked)
Gonzaga #17 (Preseason # unranked)
Va Tech #13 (Preseason # 13)
Stanford #2 (Preseason # 2)
UCONN #5 (Preseason # 6)
LSU #3 (Preseason # 16)
** Tennessee (Preseason # 5) **

Only one was ranked above us preseason
Every one of them has achieved or overachieved
We haven't
in fact we have severely underachieved
Further...
Several of those games were very winnable during their playing.

Yes we lost Tamari Key and to a lesser extent (Suarez and Rennie)
But we still have two players projected to be lottery picks (Horston and Jackson),,and some of those teams we lost to, cannot say that!

Finally
This is Tennessee
that used to mean something to everyone,,,the very mention of having to play us instilled fear in every opponent....Now, it seems, they look forward to "payback city" and that makes my fur stand on end!

Personally I see the same 4 things happening in every one of those losses:

1. Going home with timeouts that could have been used to try to stop double digit runs
2. Substitutions without purpose
3. Not recognizing when we are going into stagnation on offense and doing something about it right then.
4. Not starting the five players who are playing the best basketball at the time of each event and continuing to start those five until someone TAKES their spot

This analysis is spot on. Going forward, I see the key to the rest of the season, on the offensive side, is Jordan W. If Jordan W gives us double-digit production (which she is capable of--see her stats at Western Michigan and last night's performance), as well as her assists and rebounding, and we do not have any off nights from Rickea and Jordan H (she was off her game last night), the LVs can go on a significant run. GBO.

 

[glv98]

Al Brown was later on. I could be wrong but thought Al came on after Demoss left. Leaving Dean and Holly

During the Magical Meek run of 3 nattys, it was Holly, Mickie, and Al (and his sweaters). I believe Dean came when Al left early 2000s? Dean Mickie Holly the rest of the Pat run?

I always find it interesting when people say Pat would never have wanted a male coach. She almost always had one.

 

[pasadenavol]

To admit we got this Lady Vol coaching hire wrong. Recruiting sms to be down....we don't win big games anymore....we lose games we shouldn't....and this program is quickly becoming an afterthought on the UT landscape. Softball and soccer are surpassing a program that once commanded respect. I said when we hired Harper that I felt Kara Lawson was the better choice. I was told she was inexperienced and not ready for this job. Well she's got NBA experience, international experience, a media presence, and she's got HER team ranked. Time to end this before it gets worse and bring Kara home.

Don't disagree with needing a change. I do however, disagree with the concept of keeping it in the UT family. We tried that in Football and look at the 15 years of irrelevance. Kara might be a good answer, but let's not stick with the 'has to be a UT alum' mentality. That's what has tore this proud program down. This is a JOB that requires accountability...not sentimentality!

 

[spojo13]

Her resume looks good. But she isn't the home run hire that folks want - Like Mulkey.

I would think quite a few could get on board with her. There’s only a handful of coaches that have won championships, and they aren’t leaving UConn, Stanford, SC, or LSU. However, she is definitely around the same level as Walz or Moore these days.