Kentucky basketball next year

#51
#51
bleedingTNorange said:
That'd be dumb for both. Stein's stock won't get much higher than it is, top 15 and harrow will be a bench player next year.
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Right now Stein is only getting drafted off of athleticism and defense. He can easily raise stock if gets his offense game better. Then again, I would go if I were Stein. This years talent is down and better to go now than potentially ruin it next year. It's just a gut feeling I have.

Harrow wouldn't be drafted imo this year. He'd be smart to stay and back-up for the Harrisons but I don't know if would want that.
 
#52
#52
VKAman said:
I understand completely. You're saying guys like Trey Burke and Otto Porter should be slaves to the system instead of being allowed to make decisions for themselves. I just think that's about as idiotic as it gets.
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In the baseball model, they could skip college entirely if drafted out of high school. The beauty of that system is that you don't have to declare for the draft (and become ineligible going forward) - if you are eligible, you are on the draft board. If you get picked lower than you want, don't sign. If you don't like the organization that picks you, don't sign. If you think it's a good fit, but want a bigger signing bonus, you can threaten going to college. If everyone deems 3 years to be too long (God forbid, a student-athlete actually making progress on a degree), let's make it 2 years for argument's sake.

In that model, guys like Trey Burke and Otto Porter would have MORE options and opportunities, not less. I don't understand how you are interpreting things the way you are. How would that model make them "slaves to the system" and take away their ability to "make decisions for themselves"? I don't think I'm the one being idiotic here...
 
#53
#53
E-Tizzle said:
In the baseball model, they could skip college entirely if drafted out of high school. The beauty of that system is that you don't have to declare for the draft (and become ineligible going forward) - if you are eligible, you are on the draft board. If you get picked lower than you want, don't sign. If you don't like the organization that picks you, don't sign. If you think it's a good fit, but want a bigger signing bonus, you can threaten going to college.
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This is acceptable in baseball because the draft has approximately 50 million rounds and each team has 10 minor league teams. NBA teams don't have the margin for error to have years without ANY first round picks, especially if they traded for said picks.

If everyone deems 3 years to be too long (God forbid, a student-athlete actually making progress on a degree), let's make it 2 years for argument's sake.

In that model, guys like Trey Burke and Otto Porter would have MORE options and opportunities, not less. I don't understand how you are interpreting things the way you are. How would that model make them "slaves to the system" and take away their ability to "make decisions for themselves"? I don't think I'm the one being idiotic here...
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Since you apparently don't watch any college basketball, neither of those guys would have been drafted after high school. Neither would Russell Westbrook, Deron Williams or Eric Bledsoe. For those guys, your rule would be even more restrictive than the current one is.

But, yeah, let's take two years of making tens of millions away from Westbrook so we can force him to sit through the same easy classes he could attend at literally any time in his life. Since you're already backing off your system, go ahead and shorten it to one year and then you might have a point.
 
#54
#54
VKAman said:
This is acceptable in baseball because the draft has approximately 50 million rounds and each team has 10 minor league teams. NBA teams don't have the margin for error to have years without ANY first round picks, especially if they traded for said picks.
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That would be a good reason to add some rounds to the draft and grow the minor league (D-League) system. I'm also a fan of draft pick compensation for top-tier free agents (again, like baseball); Miami would have forfeited a first round pick to Cleveland for signing LeBron, for instance. That would keep a team from stocking up on top free agents AND first round picks as well as expedite the rebuilding process for those teams that lose big time free agents.

VKAman said:
Since you apparently don't watch any college basketball, neither of those guys would have been drafted after high school. Neither would Russell Westbrook, Deron Williams or Eric Bledsoe. For those guys, your rule would be even more restrictive than the current one is.

But, yeah, let's take two years of making tens of millions away from Westbrook so we can force him to sit through the same easy classes he could attend at literally any time in his life. Since you're already backing off your system, go ahead and shorten it to one year and then you might have a point.
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I actually watch a fair amount of college basketball - the talent is way down from 15-20 years ago. It's not restrictive - because being draft eligible automatically out of high school (with added rounds), all of those guys listed would have been drafted (albeit in later rounds) and would be able to sign or go to college (or overseas). I really don't see how that is more restrictive outside of the one-and-done vs at least 2 or 3 years in the college route. But again, if a player wants to play one year without having to worry much about academics, he could always go the JUCO route.

The money thing is a bad argument - if NBA teams had a choice to draft Eric Bledsoe after 1 year at UK vs after 2 or 3 years of developing at UK, they prefer the latter and would take him much higher (equating to more $$$). If money was that tight, sign right out of high school and take a chance in the D-League making $35k a year.

I'm not trying to argue that the MLB model is the best ever and would be perfect for basketball as I'm sure there are even better configurations. I am, however, trying to point out that it beats the hell out of the current set up. I don't think either of us is going to change the other's mind, so we can agree to disagree about the appropriateness of the MLB model for basketball.
 
#55
#55
Cal, on the SEC conf. call this morning, lends some weight that Noel may return to UK.

Sucks for ya'll if he does, but I disagree. Kid should go pro.
 
#56
#56
E-Tizzle said:
That would be a good reason to add some rounds to the draft and grow the minor league (D-League) system. I'm also a fan of draft pick compensation for top-tier free agents (again, like baseball); Miami would have forfeited a first round pick to Cleveland for signing LeBron, for instance. That would keep a team from stocking up on top free agents AND first round picks as well as expedite the rebuilding process for those teams that lose big time free agents.
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The problem with that is that very few want to play for the D-League salary when they can play in Europe, and European leagues aren't going to want to become official minor leagues to the NBA.

I actually watch a fair amount of college basketball - the talent is way down from 15-20 years ago. It's not restrictive - because being draft eligible automatically out of high school (with added rounds), all of those guys listed would have been drafted (albeit in later rounds) and would be able to sign or go to college (or overseas). I really don't see how that is more restrictive outside of the one-and-done vs at least 2 or 3 years in the college route. But again, if a player wants to play one year without having to worry much about academics, he could always go the JUCO route.
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Unlike baseball, getting drafted in the 5th round would give someone a very different path to the bigs than getting drafted in the first. If you get drafted after the first couple of rounds, it's a guaranteed trip to the D-League which is already an option for high schoolers. And no one outside of the top 10 picks is going to want to spend a high pick on someone who might not even sign with them. Maybe 5 high schoolers would be drafted, and everyone else would have a mandated 3 year college stay. That's why it's more restrictive than this system is.

The money thing is a bad argument - if NBA teams had a choice to draft Eric Bledsoe after 1 year at UK vs after 2 or 3 years of developing at UK, they prefer the latter and would take him much higher (equating to more $$$). If money was that tight, sign right out of high school and take a chance in the D-League making $35k a year.
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The assumption contained in the first sentence is fundamentally wrong. Since coaching in the NBA is orders of magnitude better than college coaching, teams would rather get good players at a young age.

Guys like Burke and Williams especially would absolutely not be higher picks if they stayed an extra year. So you're not only taking money off of their first contract, you're depriving them of a year of NBA salary to make them sit in classes that neither they nor their professors think they have any business in.

Like I said, the D-League is already an option. But $35K in the D-League is nowhere near the sure thing that a million dollar guaranteed contract is.
 
#57
#57
VKAman said:
The problem with that is that very few want to play for the D-League salary when they can play in Europe, and European leagues aren't going to want to become official minor leagues to the NBA.
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That's why the D-League needs to be developed into a more robust minor league that is more attractive than the European leagues.

VKAman said:
Unlike baseball, getting drafted in the 5th round would give someone a very different path to the bigs than getting drafted in the first. If you get drafted after the first couple of rounds, it's a guaranteed trip to the D-League which is already an option for high schoolers. And no one outside of the top 10 picks is going to want to spend a high pick on someone who might not even sign with them. Maybe 5 high schoolers would be drafted, and everyone else would have a mandated 3 year college stay. That's why it's more restrictive than this system is.
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I see your point. Each system has its pros and cons. I prefer the MLB model, you do not. Agree to disagree.

VKAman said:
The assumption contained in the first sentence is fundamentally wrong. Since coaching in the NBA is orders of magnitude better than college coaching, teams would rather get good players at a young age.
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While NBA coaching is likely a bit better than that at the college level (understatement alert), getting a younger but raw, undeveloped player is only preferable to getting a slightly older, more developed and physically mature player if they have a place for them to develop (a minor league). Young, undeveloped players need playing time to progress and maximize their potential.

You can't tell me that Darko wouldn't have been better served to have played 2 or 3 years in college then go to the Association rather than sit on the end of the bench not improving until his contract ran out. Sure, that's one example out of many, but the point is that a guy sitting on the bench isn't improving as much as one who is getting lots of minutes.

VKAman said:
Guys like Burke and Williams especially would absolutely not be higher picks if they stayed an extra year. So you're not only taking money off of their first contract, you're depriving them of a year of NBA salary to make them sit in classes that neither they nor their professors think they have any business in.

Like I said, the D-League is already an option. But $35K in the D-League is nowhere near the sure thing that a million dollar guaranteed contract is.
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I readily admit that this model could push back the time in which a player would first see some real money, but if he is really that cash-strapped, play a couple years in the D-League or Europe instead of college. $35k is most definitely less than potential millions in the NBA, but it's a heck of a lot more than most college students make while in school.
 
#60
#60
Need room and board for a year for free and to be on national tv, go to UK
Need your SATs taken for you in Highschool, go to UK
Wanna learn how to play basketball at a higher level, if your not exactly blessed with the tools out of highschool, do NOT go to UK.

Lol. Kidding cat fans.

They will be loaded and very, very good next year.
 
#62
#62
Brian McCat said:
We'll see. He's getting his surgery done over spring break to "minimize missed classes."

Again, I think he needs to take the money and run.
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I don't know if you're suggesting this, but that's not a hint he's coming back. He needs to go to class whether he's leaving or not to keep Kentucky's APR from going down the drain. Ignoring schoolwork is also the easiest way to prove to NBA teams that you have zero work ethic (see Daniel Orton).
 
#63
#63
VKAman said:
I don't know if you're suggesting this, but that's not a hint he's coming back. He needs to go to class whether he's leaving or not to keep Kentucky's APR from going down the drain. Ignoring schoolwork is also the easiest way to prove to NBA teams that you have zero work ethic (see Daniel Orton).
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Daniel Orton. Perfect comparison.
 
#66
#66
LittleCat said:
Guess it's my choice of words that has been bad tonight. Should have said "example". My bad.
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Yeah, I thought I could have been reading it wrong, but I jumped all over you just in case I wasn't. Haha. People always use Orton as evidence that Cal's system fails sometimes, without realizing that he spent his entire career doing the exact opposite of what Cal wanted him to do.
 
#69
#69
Noel is lucky after 1 injury he is still a top 5 pick. If he goes back next year and gets hurt again he won't come close to top 5.
 
#70
#70
865dude said:
Noel is lucky after 1 injury he is still a top 5 pick. If he goes back next year and gets hurt again he won't come close to top 5.
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It's a weak draft class. There have been some players that have come and really shown themselves to be good. Wouldn't be surprised if Noel somehow falls out of top 5.
 
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