Kim Caldwell Media Day

[VOLtaism]

I am not expecting much from this team for a while. Even coach was lowering immediate expectations in this presser. The style is tough to master. I am excited to see her try it out live on another team. Maybe they can be ready for SEC conference play.

 

[lvocd]

Good gawd, Travis, that was a lot of work. Thank you!

Despite all the fair warnings Kim has given about the way the early season is likely to shake out, and that these Marshall numbers clearly show was true for them, I'm going to start crossing my fingers that our players may be just enough bigger, stronger, better athletes and shooters than Marshall platers were and that our numbers will be at least SLIGHTLY better than theirs.

I'm with glv98 in wondering what their competition was like. It's hard for me to quantify differences between whole divisions of play to try to make comparisons. And Istink at crunching numbers.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

It is obvious at this point some posters will look for anything to critique.
This is really about just trying to push a narrative at this point. A video highlight weeks ago was posted showing exactly where the expectations are for this coach and nothing she ever has said could be framed as her having low expectations.
The way the team practices and the buzz they are generating is as good as it’s been heading into a new season in years.
Attempting to discredit the actual footage with these kind of repetitive posts is just wishful thinking.

 

[travis929]

I'm with glv98 in wondering what their competition was like. It's hard for me to quantify differences between whole divisions of play to try to make comparisons. And Istink at crunching numbers.

Looks like their non-conference SOS was 167, compared to their overall SOS of 95, so it seems like their schedule actually got a little harder in conference play as their numbers improved. Though the only two top-100 NET teams they faced were in their non-conference schedule (George Mason and Florida).

 

[glv98]

nothing she ever has said could be framed as her having low expectations.

Oh I must have misunderstood when she literally just said (and has said many times) her teams are "horrendous" (her word) early on but get better later in the season.

 

[glv98]

Looks like their non-conference SOS was 167, compared to their overall SOS of 95, so it seems like their schedule actually got a little harder in conference play as their numbers improved. Though the only two top-100 NET teams they faced were in their non-conference schedule (George Mason and Florida).

Quick look at Marshall's preseason last yr looks like they went 7-5 and could be described as uneven. Beat Florida and Chattanooga, lost by 10 to Northern Ky and Wright State.

 

[37620VOL]

Last season, Marshall shot worse than 40% on FGs in 40% of their Nov./Dec. games, compared to only 10% of the time in their regular season games in Jan.-Mar. And they didn't shoot above 50% on FGs in their Nov./Dec. games at all, compared to 16% of the time in the Jan.-Mar.

For 3-point %, they shot better than 30% in only 40% of their Nov./Dec. games, compared to 84% of their games in Jan.-Mar.

For fouls, they committed less than 20 fouls only once (10%) in their Nov./Dec. games, compared to 63% of the time in their Jan.-Mar. games.

For offensive rebounds, they got 20 or more zero times in their Nov./Dec. games, compared to 21% of the time in their Jan.-Mar. games.

For steals, they got 10 or more in 60% of their Nov./Dec. games, compared to 80% of their Jan.-Mar. games.

I think all of these are pretty good indicators of Kim's team getting increasingly comfortable shooting at pace, pressing without fouling, and going for offensive boards.

Hang this analysis in the Louvre

 

[37620VOL]

Oh I must have misunderstood when she literally just said (and has said many times) her teams are "horrendous" (her word) early on but get better later in the season.

The PR external expectations are completely separate from the Lockerroom internal expectations at this level of athletics.

 

[glv98]

The PR external expectations are completely separate from the Lockerroom internal expectations at this level of athletics.

Yes I understand that untruthfullness has taken over the world. I'm a boomer, it still bothers me. Also, it's interesting that CKC's PR fibs are the direct opposite of her boss's PR fibs the day he introduced her. All over the place.

That said, I do think CKC's repeated downplaying of what the preseason is going to be like is hyperbole. No way it ends up "horrendous" with this roster and a schedule this much easier than previous years. What matters is if they win at least a couple of the more challenging games they do have.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

Oh I must have misunderstood when she literally just said (and has said many times) her teams are "horrendous" (her word) early on but get better later in the season.

You lack common sense.

 

[37620VOL]

Yes I understand that untruthfullness has taken over the world. I'm a boomer, it still bothers me. Also, it's interesting that CKC's PR fibs are the direct opposite of her boss's PR fibs the day he introduced her. All over the place.

That said, I do think CKC's repeated downplaying of what the preseason is going to be like is hyperbole. No way it ends up "horrendous" with this roster and a schedule this much easier than previous years. What matters is if they win at least a couple of the more challenging games they do have.

It's not untruthfulness, it's managing a heartless media that wants to destroy you and your team. It's protecting your team. It's also exactly my personality. I don't want to be told it's all going to be sunshine and rainbows. I want an honest assessment of how bad it could suck, then we embrace it, we overcome it, and we are pleasantly surprised at the end result.

 

[glv98]

It's not untruthfulness, it's managing a heartless media that wants to destroy you and your team. It's protecting your team. It's also exactly my personality. I don't want to be told it's all going to be sunshine and rainbows. I want an honest assessment of how bad it could suck, then we embrace it, we overcome it, and we are pleasantly surprised at the end result.

Agree to disagree. For me, it's untruthfullness, followed by excuses for untruthfullness. Can't anyone just say wtf they mean the first time anymore? It's one of the many reasons I love Rick Barnes. He does none of that crap.

 

[37620VOL]

Agree to disagree. For me, it's untruthfullness, followed by excuses for untruthfullness. And it's destroying our society bc we no longer have any grounding in "fact". It's not an "honest" assessment you want. As you say, it's what you want to hear and then you mold it to what you want the outcome to be.

I get that it's an old fashioned view. It's also one of the many reasons I love Rick Barnes. He does none of this crap.

These aren't facts. These are opinions ... on sports. I am auditing a financial report right now. The facts very much matter, honesty matters, and there's no room for speculative opinions. Even so, there is a principle of conservatism. If there are two reasonable ways to present a statement, it is usually best to publically present the more conservative outlook so as not to mislead the investors. Your internal discussions and reports have much more latitude for optimism.

Your opinions or CKC's opinions about the early season outlook could be completely wrong, but as trav has nicely documented her statements are nowhere near baseless. Wait for the first 20 TO or 25% 3-point shooting game, you'll hear much more colorful language than "horrendous" on this very forum.

 

[glv98]

These aren't facts. These are opinions ... on sports.

I know it's all convuluted now, but the original question was fact based. It was said that CKC has never said anything to indicate she has lowered expectations. The indisputable fact was she literally just did, several times, on video at her team's media day. That seemed like fact to me.

 

[37620VOL]

I really appreciate you @glv98 . We can go back and forth respectfully which makes the forum fun.

 

[glv98]

I really appreciate you @glv98 . We can go back and forth respectfully which makes the forum fun.

Your kind to say that.

Bottom line for me, no matter how PR paints it, we're going to actually know something about this team on Nov 12 and then on Dec 4 and 7. Until then, it might be sloppy and disorganized, but we already know what we're getting - speed and athleticism. That should be enough against the early schedule.

Those underestimating MTSU must have been in a coma last year. They'll struggle to match our athleticism of course, but that is an incredibly well coached team with lots of skill. Then Florida St and Iowa will tell us where we stand nationally.

 

[VOLLeeann]

Love Kim's finger nails !!

 

[knoxvol52]

Love Kim's finger nails !!

Tennessee is winning the National Championship.

 

[Mafiaboss]

I also got a little nervous when she said she anticipates a horrendous start. However, CKC does strike me as a perfectionist, so I’m eager to see what her version of horrendous looks like.

A lot of great coaches talk about how unhappy they are and how far the team is from THEIR standard of excellence even if the team’s winning games by 20 plus. I hope that’s what we have in CKC.

I think this is her self-admitted perfectionist expectations response. Sounds like Pat.

 

[Mafiaboss]

Oh I must have misunderstood when she literally just said (and has said many times) her teams are "horrendous" (her word) early on but get better later in the season.

You don’t catch nuance. It’s her perspective they have been horrendous. For all you know, her teams could win by 200 and she would deem the performances horrendous.

 

[Mafiaboss]

We’re going to win all of the early games except perhaps the UConn game. But we’ll give them a game.

 

[madtownvol]

Let's not overlook the really important thing. CKC wore orange during this Presser. The natty is now guaranteed!

 

[glv98]

You don’t catch nuance. It’s her perspective they have been horrendous. For all you know, her teams could win by 200 and she would deem the performances horrendous.

I’ve missed the nuance the dozens of times she’s said it since she’s been here. Last yr she was right about it w Marshall. They were 7-5 non conf w double digit losses to some cupcakes. Also a couple of good wins. Then won their reg and tourney conference championships. Sounds like it played out exactly the way Kim is describing it.

 

[madtownvol]

I’ve missed the nuance the dozens of times she’s said it since she’s been here. Last yr she was right about it w Marshall. They were 7-5 non conf w double digit losses to some cupcakes. Also a couple of good wins. Then won their reg and tourney conference championships. Sounds like it played out exactly the way Kim is describing it.

We will soon see exactly how this plays out. One thing, CKC, at Marshall, was not under the same kind of media spotlight where a slow start is bound to incite a media (and social media) feeding frenzy.

I do agree that CKC's constant emphasis on "my teams are not at their best in November" is unnecessary . First off, that concession is true for every team. I have never seen a WCBB coach proclaim, "my team will peak by Thanksgiving!!!"

It is expected that a given team will improve as the season goes along. I get managing early season expectations but just say we are a work-in-progress with a lot of new players who are learning a new system but I am happy with progress and effort I am seeing.

Coach speak sometimes can be your friend.

 

[glv98]

I do agree that CKC's constant emphasis on "my teams are not at their best in November" is unnecessary .

Not sure I’d say unnecessary. And understandable w new teams learning a new system like Marshall last yr and now the LVs.

I just don’t like when she implies it always happens w her teams. We can’t have that.