Kirby Smart and Josh Heupel

#26
#26
KTrain said:
Did Kirby take over a 3-win team that was under sanctions and still is and Mark Richt was in the Top 10 in recruiting all 15 years except 2 years he finished #11 & #12 his lowest. He had the #5 recruiting Class the year before Kirby took over. In other words, he recruited well enough to win a Championship but didn't and left the Cupboard teeming with top notch players when Kirby took over. Kirby is a better coach than Richt but Richt wasn't terrible HC like Pruitt Butch & Dooley. Hype has a much steeper climb.
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As I said next years class will be the telltale. He has to finish well within the top 10.
 
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#27
#27
docterjaws said:
I would like to remind all the worrying and Debby downers of Tennessee football that Kirby Smart widely considered the king of college football right now was 32 and 10 in his first 3 years at Georgia. He inherited a much more favorable condition than JH by far but rose to the occasion. JH is now 26 and 12 in his first 3 years and will be 27 and 12 if we win the Citrus bowl. I keep hearing about how poor the offense was this year - ranked 17th in the nation is not too shabby. I keep hearing about can JH recruit but has consistently been a top 15 recruiting class. For all those who continue to really want Tennessee to win and win big - STOP WITH ALL THE POSTED NEGATIVE ISSUES - You are only hurting the Tennessee football team.
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Looking at just records is foolish. Kirby’s 32-10 included 2 ATL appearances (1 title), 1 CFPCG appearance and another NY6 bowl.
 
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#28
#28
MurphyVol said:
Have we covered them all....dumpster fire, looming sanctions, geographical disadvantage....feels like we're missing one.

Based on what I'm hearing we'll likely never compete for the SEC again. I'll have to admit, after a quarter of a century it certainly nis starting to feel that way.
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They are disadvantages but they don't keep us from necessarily competing again. The biggest factor is probably Saban. I get the Vibe that Tennessee's program is going to take a shot of adrenaline once he steps away from Alabama. This happened with Bryant. Only 2 years after Bryant retired, Tennessee won the SEC (1985).
 
#29
#29
RDU VOL#14 said:
Not entirely. Kirby took over an outstanding program that was tired of going 9-3 and 10-2 under Mark Richt. Heupel followed dumpster fire after dumpster fire . The mountain Heupel has to climb is much steeper.
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definitely. A better comparison would have been if JH took over for Fulmer. JH just needs to keep making progress, and not for nothing, but it's about to get tougher for everyone to get to and remain in upper tier b/c of adding TX/OK to the SEC mix. Outside of probably Bama, TX, UGA, LSU, OM, I'd say we're in a good spot of having a coach to build with. Would hate to be back in the coaching carousel game, on the fence with "do we have the right guy or not"...UF, SC, etc
 
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#30
#30
RDU VOL#14 said:
Not entirely. Kirby took over an outstanding program that was tired of going 9-3 and 10-2 under Mark Richt. Heupel followed dumpster fire after dumpster fire . The mountain Heupel has to climb is much steeper.
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Which is WHY we need to recruit better.

Nobody - at least not me- is saying Heupel is in danger of losing his job.

But to get in striking distance to compete for the SEC we need to take it up a notch in recruiting.
That's the truth. It's not a condemnation or Heupel, but in order to consistently even best Florida, we have to recruit better in the secondary and linebacker.
 
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#32
#32
how many years does it take for you all to run out of excuses and start expecting high level football? Going into year 4 and some are already making excuses. Are you guys going to be satisfied with 8 wins again?
 
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#35
#35
Volfan76 said:
Thank you for posting these. I was just about to look those up. We've got to recruit better.
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Staffing (the verb) has changed though. The portal can (will?) be a huge source of good mercenaries. VFLs going forward are going to be few and far between. It is what it is.
 
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#38
#38
EastTNVol423 said:
how many years does it take for you all to run out of excuses and start expecting high level football? Going into year 4 and some are already making excuses. Are you guys going to be satisfied with 8 wins again?
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Going to ruffle some feathers but it’s probably past time to start being more realistic about expectations. We’ve won one legitimate national title since black players were allowed in the SEC. The chances of UT ever having a dynastic run like Bama/UGA are pretty much zero. It’s a lot harder to recruit here than those two places because of the vast difference in in-state talent. Winning a national title here is just an aspiration. It isn’t the standard.
 
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#39
#39
SGMVols said:
Going to ruffle some feathers but it’s probably past time to start being more realistic about expectations. We’ve won one legitimate national title since black players were allowed in the SEC. The chances of UT ever having a dynastic run like Bama/UGA are pretty much zero. It’s a lot harder to recruit here than those two places because of the vast difference in in-state talent. Winning a national title here is just an aspiration. It isn’t the standard.
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What people should prepare for is a world where no one has dynastic runs. Good Lord, look at Florida's schedule next year. Miami, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida State, LSU, and Texas. And that's everyone's problem in the SEC now, either one year or the next. There's no escaping the heavyweights. That's what adding teams like Texas and Oklahoma does to a conference that was already THE BEST IN THE NATION. The mantra of the future is gonna be "10-2 will have to do," because nobody's gonna pull an Alabama or a UGA in this Frakenstein of a conference.

Seriously. Ain't nobody gonna be Alabama in the future. Not even Alabama will be Alabama.

It's like Syndrome said - when everybody's super, no one will be.
 
#40
#40
The Original Fade said:
I’ve yet to hear any convincing argument that message board negativity actually hurts the team.
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To pretend we post here in a vacuum, is to deny the obvious.

Example: You think the people outside of Twitter and forums like these werent aware of the fan outcry regarding Schiano?
Fron the other side of things; what do you think Saban was talking about when he referenced rat poison?

This type forum has, does and will influence players and recruits. Fell free to continually spew negativity if you wish. However, you shouldn't pretend there is no reaction to your words.
 
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#41
#41
I have to disagree with the prevailing sentiment in this thread. I concur with the OP. However I think that the key will be the Neyland Entertainment District. When that is completed,we will have a trump card nobody else has in the NCAA. Moreover our revenue is going to skyrocket. What do you lads believe the effect is going to be? We are going to have shekels a plenty for NIL,we are going to have publicity on par with the Cowboys or Yankees, and the recruits are going to be brawling one another to be the first to sign. I am having a hard time believing that we are just going to be mediocre for the foreseeable future. I am very sad the referees costed the team 2-3 wins this year. Now people are going cuckoo for cocoa puffs against our brilliant coach and AD. CALM THE FLIP DOWN!! WE FIXING TO WHIPP ALL THEIR DANG AZZZES! GO BIG ORANGE!!!
 
#42
#42
GetYouSomeofThat said:
To pretend we post here in a vacuum, is to deny the obvious.

Example: You think the people outside of Twitter and forums like these werent aware of the fan outcry regarding Schiano?
Fron the other side of things; what do you think Saban was talking about when he referenced rat poison?

This type forum has, does and will influence players and recruits. Fell free to continually spew negativity if you wish. However, you shouldn't pretend there is no reaction to your words.
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Google "Joe Milton isn't good" and the fourth topic that shows up is a Volnation thread. I didn't try anything else, but we're definitely not completely "under the radar" when we post here.

What do recruits, coaches, parents, etc look at? I've no real idea but thinking Volnation messages are somehow cloistered is not correct.
 
#43
#43
Webbvol32 said:
I have to disagree with the prevailing sentiment in this thread. I concur with the OP. However I think that the key will be the Neyland Entertainment District. When that is completed,we will have a trump card nobody else has in the NCAA. Moreover our revenue is going to skyrocket. What do you lads believe the effect is going to be? We are going to have shekels a plenty for NIL,we are going to have publicity on par with the Cowboys or Yankees, and the recruits are going to be brawling one another to be the first to sign. I am having a hard time believing that we are just going to be mediocre for the foreseeable future. I am very sad the referees costed the team 2-3 wins this year. Now people are going cuckoo for cocoa puffs against our brilliant coach and AD. CALM THE FLIP DOWN!! WE FIXING TO WHIPP ALL THEIR DANG AZZZES! GO BIG ORANGE!!!
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I laughed hard at the part about Tennessee having publicity on par with the Cowboys and Yankees.
 
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#44
#44
I’m convinced that Heupel has already stabilized the program and will leave it in better condition than what he stepped into. I’m not convinced he will be the coach to get the program beyond mid-SEC level.
 
#45
#45
I’m optimistic on a ten year timeline due to the demographic changes that are happening in TN. The state is becoming wealthier and instate talent is improving. IMO it’s only a matter of time before Alabama and Louisiana can brag about having better instate talent. We won’t catch Georgia but we won’t need to.

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#46
#46
Fatman Photos said:
Kirby also DIDN't come into a dumpster fire. Georgia had been winning. Their WORST season that had under Richt was 6-7 in 2010 and most of the seasons under him were 9-4 and 10-3 Seasons where under our coached over that same period we had 6 losing seasons. It's so much easier to recruit top notch when you are winning and winning big.
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For many a reminder is needed. Georgia as a state is loaded with lots of futbol talent. In that state a high percentage want to play for the home state university. Tennessee by comparison is not as loaded and dedication to the top university is not very strong after the plethora of mediocre years prior Heupel. Butch Jones had a couple of decent years. Nevertheless we(many) are attempting to compare bulldawgs to oranges and it doesn't work. Jawga continually gets top talent in their home state. Thus in the Fulmer years we had to recruit more on a national basis. It is what it is. GBO!
 
#47
#47
RDU VOL#14 said:
Not entirely. Kirby took over an outstanding program that was tired of going 9-3 and 10-2 under Mark Richt. Heupel followed dumpster fire after dumpster fire . The mountain Heupel has to climb is much steeper.
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Ok so by definition we’re comparing two different situations. Some might say apples and oranges.
 
#48
#48
Ratvol said:
But Kirby followed a much better coach/recruiter than Cornbread. Plus Kirby didn't have NCAA sanctions/loss of scollys looming over his head. Kirby had it much much much better/easier.
Relax, things are looking much better than originally thought.

GO VOLS!!!!!
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Sanctions/ dumpster fire etc. Thats all fine but if we’re going to keep using those excuses then we should stop comparing their records. You are what your Record is. Sean Connery had a pretty famous quote about winners and losers. Kirby has 4 rings as a coordinator, one as an assistant and two as a head coach. Starting a thread comparing he and JH is silly at this point.
 
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#50
#50
docterjaws said:
I would like to remind all the worrying and Debby downers of Tennessee football that Kirby Smart widely considered the king of college football right now was 32 and 10 in his first 3 years at Georgia. He inherited a much more favorable condition than JH by far but rose to the occasion. JH is now 26 and 12 in his first 3 years and will be 27 and 12 if we win the Citrus bowl. I keep hearing about how poor the offense was this year - ranked 17th in the nation is not too shabby. I keep hearing about can JH recruit but has consistently been a top 15 recruiting class. For all those who continue to really want Tennessee to win and win big - STOP WITH ALL THE POSTED NEGATIVE ISSUES - You are only hurting the Tennessee football team.
Click to expand...
Yeah but couldn't you make that argument with other coaches like Tom Herman, Dan Mullin, etc.? I'm still in wait and see mode, the recruiting and his loyalty to players/coaches still concerns me. But truth be told, I have no problem with fans point out negative issues. I don't agree that it hurts, I'd rather be a program that expects perfection than one that makes it ok to play only pretty good or make it ok not to grow and improve.
 
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