Kirk Herbstreit on VOls during live chat

[Low Country Vol]

Do you agree that the most disappointing team of the season is Tennessee? There has been already one shake-up in coaching with Randy Sanders stepping down, is there any hope for Tennesse at Notre Dame? Is Fulmer losing his touch?

Kirk Herbstreit: (3:23 PM ET ) I don't think that Phil Fulmer's job is in jeopardy. Although, Tennessee fans are freaking out over a 3-4 season start, you're still talking about a head coach who is one of the winningest among active coaches in the country. With that said, the think that has bothered me about the Vols in the last few years has been their lack of unity and killer instinct. Granted, you could come up with isolated cases where the Vols played with tremendous heart, but the thing that I've noticed in recent years is that these Tenn teams have not seemed to have the warriors of the Tenn teams in the mid to late 90s. To me, that falls on the players and their leadership as much as anything or anyone else. I challenge any Tennessee fan to show me a collective corps of players that have the personality of the Al Wilsons, Raynoch Thompsons, Deon Grants, Sean Brysons, T Martins, etc. etc. It's so easy to put the blame on Randy Sanders for the obvious lack of offensive production. While I agree, the offense has struggled, I'm still looking for that warrior mentality as a GROUP week in and week out.

 

[pedigovolfan]

:bow: As bad as I hate ESPN, that is one of the more thoughtful veiwpoints on the situation that I have read

 

[pedigovolfan]

viewpoint...sorry

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by brg72@Nov 3, 2005 3:53 PM
Do you agree that the most disappointing team of the season is Tennessee? There has been already one shake-up in coaching with Randy Sanders stepping down, is there any hope for Tennesse at Notre Dame? Is Fulmer losing his touch?

Kirk Herbstreit: (3:23 PM ET ) I don't think that Phil Fulmer's job is in jeopardy. Although, Tennessee fans are freaking out over a 3-4 season start, you're still talking about a head coach who is one of the winningest among active coaches in the country. With that said, the think that has bothered me about the Vols in the last few years has been their lack of unity and killer instinct. Granted, you could come up with isolated cases where the Vols played with tremendous heart, but the thing that I've noticed in recent years is that these Tenn teams have not seemed to have the warriors of the Tenn teams in the mid to late 90s. To me, that falls on the players and their leadership as much as anything or anyone else. I challenge any Tennessee fan to show me a collective corps of players that have the personality of the Al Wilsons, Raynoch Thompsons, Deon Grants, Sean Brysons, T Martins, etc. etc. It's so easy to put the blame on Randy Sanders for the obvious lack of offensive production. While I agree, the offense has struggled, I'm still looking for that warrior mentality as a GROUP week in and week out.

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Oh my god! Does he realize he just suggested that PLAYERS may bear some responsibility for what has gone on? Someone better hurry up and tell him that players can never be responsible, if the team screws up it is ALL because they were poorly coached. How dare he!?!?

 

[gonygonygo]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 3:57 PM
Oh my god!  Does he realize he just suggested that PLAYERS may bear some responsibility for what has gone on?  Someone better hurry up and tell him that players can never be responsible, if the team screws up it is ALL because they were poorly coached.  How dare he!?!?

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I believe we are the two most knowlegeable people on this site when it comes to football knowledge. You are the man!

 

[JennVols]

Kirk is right. There is only so much a coach can do and then it's up to the players. A lot of the players haven't done what was expected of them this year.

 

[Vol-In-Bama]

There is, as I have said before, plenty of blame to go around... The players do need to step up and be leaders.

 

[gonygonygo]

Originally posted by JennVols@Nov 3, 2005 4:12 PM
Kirk is right.  There is only so much a coach can do and then it's up to the players.  A lot of the players haven't done what was expected of them this year.

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too bad people around here dont know better. they think these players are gods and can't do any wrong. if they do, it's always the coach's fault. just forgive their ignorance. (guys like Lexvol are whom I am referring to).

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by gonygonygo@Nov 3, 2005 4:07 PM
I believe we are the two most knowlegeable people on this site when it comes to football knowledge.  You are the man!

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You are not bashful either. I would dare to point out that we have those types of leaders that have been DEVELOPED on defense....Kevin Burnett, Jason Allen, Jesse Mahelona, Omar Gaither. Are they the caliber of Al Wilson or Raynoch Thompson? I would argue that Mahelona and Jason Allen are of the same Ilk.

I would argue then that the defense plays together, and takes on the personality of JC. He imparts responsibility.

On the other hand, when you look at the offense you see that there is arguably no one that has developed the same killer instinct. Dare I say we have not had a cohesive offensive unit since we have had a Clausen on campus, and RS at OC?

 

[KYVolFan]

Obviously, I believe Herbstreit has reitterated what I have, at least partially, been saying all year long. The players bear the responsibility. Jesus Christ on the sideline can't make players catch passes or want to tear the opposition's ball carrier in half. Intensity, heart and reckless abandon can't be coached in this sport. Either a player has it or he doesn't. There is an attitude that has to be there to drive a player to make the hard plays. The coaches can talk about intensity and so can the players but the players have to display it.

The coaches can verbalize their pep talks with great oratory skills but the players have to throw their bodies around the gridiron. The players have to knock the jock straps and shoe laces off the opponents. For players to accomplish their tasks they have to have an almost inbred eye of tiger. Pride, a touch of savagery and refusing to fail are the character traits that VOL players must have.

I can't think of a game that Randy called badly. Except for one half (LSU game) I can think of about 7 games the offensive team has played well below their ability and their coaches expectations.

 

[Lexvol]

Read my previous post. RS may be an average playcaller, but he has failed to impart any responsibility for the offense to be an aggressive cohesive unit.

 

[JennVols]

Originally posted by gonygonygo@Nov 3, 2005 4:14 PM
too bad people around here dont know better.  they think these players are gods and can't do any wrong.  if they do, it's always the coach's fault.  just forgive their ignorance.  (guys like Lexvol are whom I am referring to).

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I have seen Lexvol make a lot of valid points. I may not agree with him all the time, but I respect his opinion.

 

[allvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 4:16 PM
You are not bashful either.  I would dare to point out that we have those types of leaders that have been DEVELOPED on defense....Kevin Burnett, Jason Allen, Jesse Mahelona, Omar Gaither.  Are they the caliber of Al Wilson or Raynoch Thompson? I would argue that Mahelona and Jason Allen are of the same Ilk.

I would argue then that the defense plays together, and takes on the personality of JC.  He imparts responsibility.

On the other hand, when you look at the offense you see that there is arguably no one that has developed the same killer instinct.  Dare I say we have not had a cohesive offensive unit since we have had a Clausen on campus, and RS at OC?

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I quite agree. While many have harped on the ranking of the Vols recruiting classes over the years.... many have not pointed out that a good many of the highly touted recruits ended up on defense. Could be the trend in the SEC as some of the top defenses in the nation are in the SEC this year. The UT seniors this season are part of the #2 signing class from 5 years ago. 15 of the 25 signees are defensive players. They make up the core of the Vols current defense. Offensive players like James Banks are gone.

To further what Herbstreit said. You've only got to look toward the Philadelphia Eagles this year to see something. It takes a collective "team" effort to win a championship. However, it only takes 1 player to spoil the entire team chemistry. Not to say that is what is happening at UT, but it has seemed odd to me how some of the players play differently when Clausen is in the game. This may be a team divided? With a new OC and Clausen gone next season, I think the offense may improve quite a bit? :cross:

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 4:17 PM
Read my previous post.  RS may be an average playcaller, but he has failed to impart any responsibility for the offense to be an aggressive cohesive unit.

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Have you been in the locker room? How about team meetings? You have no Idea what Sanders has tried to do except what you see on the TV screen. The guy has resigned as OC and it is time to give him a break. No one on this site has any Idea what any of the coaches have done or not done to try to fix the offensive problems, it is all speculation. The offensive problems have obviously been players simply not doing thier jobs on gameday. That may be a simplistic way of thinking, but it is what it all boils down to. Ultimately the coaches are responsible for what happens which is why RS called it quits.....but he said it himself, the players need to take responsiblility for what they do on the field. Why is it so far fetched that maybe a player on offense needs to step up and be a leader, make plays, and lead by example? Chris Hannon is a senior who loves to toot his own horn for example, but the effort he has been giving makes me want to vomit! Do you honestly believe the coaching staff has not done everything they can to get these kids to execute?

 

[CSpindizzy]

All of you 'player haters' as I would call them fail to realize that it is the coach's purpose to bring in that high school kid and turn them into a top calibre college player. You can't expect these kids to come out of high school and have the instinct to play full force every week. It's the reason they have coaches....even at the PRO level.

For all of you who blast us who have faulted the coaches you fail to grasp a simple concept that it is the coach who molds raw talent into top talent. I've used this example before with Ainge coming in out of high school hungry and determined. A year under Sanders' tutelage has made a fiery and determined player into mush.

Look at Corey Dillon in the pros. He has a coaching change and becomes a better player. The talent is there but it takes leadership, discipline, motivation, and inspiration to light the proverbial fire up under these guys rears.

Yeah, you're right. The players fumbled the ball. But these coaches are creating a mindset week in and week out for this. It's repeated mental mistakes. It's mediocrity...not just one year but since 99. There is no hunger on the O side like the D side. The D side goes out there to play and win. But when they have to play 40 out of 60 minutes they can only do so much.

So you can keep whining about us who think this ultimately falls on the shoulders of the coaches. It's where the blame ultimately belongs. I didn't say FULLY but I said ULTIMATELY.

 

[orangetd88]

IMO, he's right one there. The problem is, that killer instinct is something that can be instilled Monday-Friday on the practice field. I think that is where RS seriously lacked something. I don't think he ran the best practice. Of course, that goes back to Fulmer being the hc, too.

The defense certainly exihibits this, though. I've heard time and again how Chavis runs a much better practice than RS did.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 4:29 PM
Have you been in the locker room?  How about team meetings?  You have no Idea what Sanders has tried to do except what you see on the TV screen.  The guy has resigned as OC and it is time to give him a break.  No one on this site has any Idea what any of the coaches have done or not done to try to fix the offensive problems, it is all speculation.  The offensive problems have obviously been players simply not doing thier jobs on gameday.  That may be a simplistic way of thinking, but it is what it all boils down to.  Ultimately the coaches are responsible for what happens which is why RS called it quits.....but he said it himself, the players need to take responsiblility for what they do on the field.  Why is it so far fetched that maybe a player on offense needs to step up and be a leader, make plays, and lead by example?  Chris Hannon is a senior who loves to toot his own horn for example, but the effort he has been giving makes me want to vomit!  Do you honestly believe the coaching staff has not done everything they can to get these kids to execute?

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It is not speculation that we have not had a cohesive unit since a Clausen and RS has been together.

I know much more about the locker room than you think.

Why does the defense almost always gel, while the offense always looks discombobulated? I am sorry, but that is just they way it is.

 

[afanalso]

He makes a solid point.

 

[allvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 4:32 PM
It is not speculation that we have not had a cohesive unit since a Clausen and RS has been together. 

I know much more about the locker room than you think.

Why does the defense almost always gel, while the offense always looks discombobulated?  I am sorry, but that is just they way it is.

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I agree, if it was just one season I might tend to disagree... but it was plainly clear after this season that even the blowout victories we had been accustomed to in the '90s were a thing of the past. Its been like going back to the early '80s, when the Vols regularly barely beat teams like Wichita State (24-21), Iowa State (23-21), Washington State (10-3), Rutgers (7-0), Utah (27-21), Army (24-24).... and dare I say it - - even lost to Vanderbilt (21-28) and Kentucky (10-21).

Tennessee 1980-1984

 

[Jmxvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 3:57 PM
Oh my god!  Does he realize he just suggested that PLAYERS may bear some responsibility for what has gone on?  Someone better hurry up and tell him that players can never be responsible, if the team screws up it is ALL because they were poorly coached.  How dare he!?!?

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If it's one or two players repeatedly screwing up then it's their own fault and they are just bad apples....but when it's happening at every position every week, it's a sign of an undisciplined, poorly coached team. Pat Washington, Jimmy Ray Stephens, and Randy Sanders would not be hired on any other major top 25 program. I'm just tired of the inbred system over there.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by Jmxvol@Nov 3, 2005 4:59 PM
If it's one or two players repeatedly screwing up then it's their own fault and they are just bad apples....but when it's happening at every position every week, it's a sign of an undisciplined, poorly coached team. Pat Washington, Jimmy Ray Stephens, and Randy Sanders would not be hired on any other major top 25 program.  I'm just tired of the inbred system over there.

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No sense in arguing JMX, they like to call people out and run.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:01 PM
No sense in arguing JMX, they like to call people out and run.

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Here here.....

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 4:32 PM
It is not speculation that we have not had a cohesive unit since a Clausen and RS has been together. 

I know much more about the locker room than you think.

Why does the defense almost always gel, while the offense always looks discombobulated?  I am sorry, but that is just they way it is.

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How about last year? The offense had to carry the defense on numerous occasions. As for past years, we have not had quite the horses the last few years as in years before. You are not going to convince me that Casey Clausen had anywhere near the talent that Peyton and some of the previous QB's had. Sanders is gone, and it is time to stop kicking the guy. My point is that I am tired of hearing that the coaching staff is at fault for ALL of the offensive problems and the players are at no fault whatsoever. That is just plain stupid, if it were that simple the most talented team with a decent coach would win the NC every single year. And while you may think you know plenty about the locker room, unless you are there or have a transcript of everything that is said, you have no right to act like you KNOW exactly where the problems have stemmed. All I am saying is that the responsibility falls on everyone players included, not just the staff. You will never convince me that these players have not been properly taught how to catch a pass, or not fumble. When coach Fulmer says his team has practiced well I tend to believe it, and for whatever reason the players have not put forth the effort on Saturday. I have said on many occasions that ultimately the staff is responsible, I am glad Sanders is gone, and this team needs to be shown some discipline, but this Idea that the players are at no fault is just ridiculous.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:07 PM
  And while you may think you know plenty about the locker room, unless you are there or have a transcript of everything that is said, you have no right to act like you KNOW exactly where the problems have stemmed.  All I am saying is that the responsibility falls on everyone players included, not just the staff.  You will never convince me that these players have not been properly taught how to catch a pass, or not fumble. 

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In the locker room Ainge said that (eight weeks into the season mind you) that the only BEFORE the SC game, did receivers have to start running whenever they missed a pass.

As for last year, how many games did the defense lose?

Answer: two both to arguably the best team in the country.

Did they make a stop when the team needed it most? Yes.

Based on performance, the onus is on you to prove that they are coaching catching, and holding on to the ball.

Based on performance (I have seen every minute of every game) I can rightfully conclude that this is an offense that has not gelled, and is improperly coached.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Jmxvol@Nov 3, 2005 4:59 PM
If it's one or two players repeatedly screwing up then it's their own fault and they are just bad apples....but when it's happening at every position every week, it's a sign of an undisciplined, poorly coached team. Pat Washington, Jimmy Ray Stephens, and Randy Sanders would not be hired on any other major top 25 program.  I'm just tired of the inbred system over there.

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These are the same players being coached by the same staff as last year, and we did not have a problem holding onto the ball like this then. I guess the staff "made them worse" which is another popular theory around here.