Kirk Herbstreit on VOls during live chat

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:14 PM
These are the same players being coached by the same staff as last year, and we did not have a problem holding onto the ball like this then.  I guess the staff "made them worse" which is another popular theory around here.

[snapback]181376[/snapback]​

Well, one thing that has been proven...they didn't make them any better. :biggrin2:

 

[Jmxvol]

This is a performance industry. When the job is not getting done, coaches get canned because it's their job to see that it gets done. These players are soft on offense because they are poorly coached.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:14 PM
In the locker room Ainge said that (eight weeks into the season mind you) that the only BEFORE the SC game, did receivers have to start running whenever they missed a pass.

As for last year, how many games did the defense lose? 

Answer: two both to arguably the best team in the country.

Did they make a stop when the team needed it most? Yes.

Based on performance, the onus is on you to prove that they are coaching catching, and holding on to the ball. 

Based on performance (I have seen every minute of every game) I can rightfully conclude that this is an offense that has not gelled, and is improperly coached.

[snapback]181374[/snapback]​

How many games did the offense win last year?

Catching a pass is a very basic function that most players can perform before they ever step foot on campus. You cannot really believe that somehow the coaching staff is causing the dropped balls. If so, you are nuts. I will agree that they should have been running all year for dropped passes, in fact I think Chris Hannon should be benched at this point. Do you really believe that every problem this offense has had was a direct effect of poor coaching? The players have not been at fault at all?

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:17 PM
Well, one thing that has been proven...they didn't make them any better. :biggrin2:

[snapback]181378[/snapback]​

I guess you got me there.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:20 PM
How many games did the offense win last year?

Catching a pass is a very basic function that most players can perform before they ever step foot on campus.  You cannot really believe that somehow the coaching staff is causing the dropped balls.  If so, you are nuts.  I will agree that they should have been running all year for dropped passes, in fact I think Chris Hannon should be benched at this point.  Do you really believe that every problem this offense has had was a direct effect of poor coaching?  The players have not been at fault at all?

[snapback]181381[/snapback]​

I truly hope that they can catch the ball before they set foot on campus.

I truly believe that the offense won a few games last year against Vandy and UK. They came through when they needed to. But...they should have put 45 on the board, and the game should not have been close.

Last year the defense was a patchwork defense, that still came through. They turned into arguably the best defense in the nation that is still solid after losing their best player.

The offense has not had a personality, and have played not to lose for the last 5 years. Does CPF have something to do with that...yes.

They know they are playing "not to lose" and they take on that very personality. I am not nuts. If the offense had improved this year as they should, and the talent had developed as it should, I would have admitted that I was wrong. Based on what I have seen I cannot.

 

[hatvol96]

The marketplace will prove who is correct in this argument. Let's see which programs come looking for the services of Sanders, Washington, and Stephens. That will speak volumes about their abilities as coaches.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 3, 2005 5:28 PM
The marketplace will prove who is correct in this argument. Let's see which programs come looking for the services of Sanders, Washington, and Stephens. That will speak volumes about their abilities as coaches.

[snapback]181388[/snapback]​

Again, I am glad Sanders is gone I just think he took to much of the heat. As for Washington and Stephens I would not want them coaching My 6 year old son's team.

 

[Lexvol]

We agree. Sanders was set up to take the fall. I felt bad because he is all Vol.

Why didn't he insist on being surrounded by better coaches? We will never know.

I hope your Six year old suits up in Orange one day. Teach the kid to kick. It is a wonderful free ride.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:26 PM
I truly hope that they can catch the ball before they set foot on campus.

I truly believe that the offense won a few games last year against Vandy and UK.  They came through when they needed to.  But...they should have put 45 on the board, and the game should not have been close. 

Last year the defense was a patchwork defense, that still came through.  They turned into arguably the best defense in the nation that is still solid after losing their best player.

The offense has not had a personality, and have played not to lose for the last 5 years.  Does CPF have something to do with that...yes.

They know they are playing "not to lose" and they take on that very personality.  I am not nuts.  If the offense had improved this year as they should, and the talent had developed as it should, I would have admitted that I was wrong.  Based on what I have seen I cannot.

[snapback]181387[/snapback]​

As for last year, patchwork or not the defense was supposed to carry that team and for a good part of the year it was the other way around. I will ask you again, do you think the players are responible at all for the offensive woes? I know when I was growing up and playing sports there were plenty of times I made mistakes that were just that....my mistakes and had nothing to do with being poorly coached. I just think it is absurd for the staff to take ALL of the blame.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:35 PM
As for last year, patchwork or not the defense was supposed to carry that team and for a good part of the year it was the other way around.  I will ask you again, do you think the players are responible at all for the offensive woes?  I know when I was growing up and playing sports there were plenty of times I made mistakes that were just that....my mistakes and had nothing to do with being poorly coached.  I just think it is absurd for the staff to take ALL of the blame.

[snapback]181395[/snapback]​

I would say, if mistakes were isolated, that it was the athletes responsibility.

As it stands, to answer your question directly..the players are making the same mistakes repetitively. Good coaching should always decrease errors like that. We have seen the same mistakes over and over again. Therefore, the blame ratio is 20% players and 80% coaches.

Same errors by the same players= not enough corrective measures by the coaches.

 

[gonygonygo]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:35 PM
As for last year, patchwork or not the defense was supposed to carry that team and for a good part of the year it was the other way around.  I will ask you again, do you think the players are responible at all for the offensive woes?  I know when I was growing up and playing sports there were plenty of times I made mistakes that were just that....my mistakes and had nothing to do with being poorly coached.  I just think it is absurd for the staff to take ALL of the blame.

[snapback]181395[/snapback]​

no need to keep asking the question because Lexvol refuses to answer (about the players being somewhat responsible).

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:39 PM
I would say, if mistakes were isolated, that it was the athletes responsibility.

As it stands, to answer your question directly..the players are making the same mistakes repetitively.  Good coaching should always decrease errors like that.  We have seen the same mistakes over and over again.  Therefore, the blame ratio is 20% players and 80% coaches.

Same errors by the same players= not enough corrective measures by the coaches.

[snapback]181398[/snapback]​

I will agree that there have not been enough corrective measures, but we are talking about catching a ball. CATCHING A BALL! There should be no excuse for a starting receiver at a top tier D1 school dropping easy passes. Maybe we will see some improvement now that they are running. Like I said, I think it is time to bench a couple of these guys, hannon in particular. Don't get me wrong, I think Fulmer needs to do a lot more to show these players that the drops, penalties, and fumbles are unacceptable....and it makes me sick to see him clap and pat someone on the back after a stupid mistake, but when it comes to something as simple as catching a ball I think the players should bear a little more responsibility than 20%

 

[gonygonygo]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:39 PM
I would say, if mistakes were isolated, that it was the athletes responsibility.

As it stands, to answer your question directly..the players are making the same mistakes repetitively.  Good coaching should always decrease errors like that.  We have seen the same mistakes over and over again.  Therefore, the blame ratio is 20% players and 80% coaches.

Same errors by the same players= not enough corrective measures by the coaches.

[snapback]181398[/snapback]​

it's more than 20 - 80 percentages. IMO, it's 50/50.

coaches put you in position and players actually have to make the plays. if it were all in the coaching, every player that steps on the field would be equally capable of doing what the next guy can do. or you could have a team of mediocre talent whooping on a heavily talented team just because of coaching.

 

[gonygonygo]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:46 PM
I will agree that there have not been enough corrective measures, but we are talking about catching a ball.  CATCHING A BALL!  There should be no excuse for a starting receiver at a top tier D1 school dropping easy passes.  Maybe we will see some improvement now that they are running.  Like I said, I think it is time to bench a couple of these guys, hannon in particular.  Don't get me wrong, I think Fulmer needs to do a lot more to show these players that the drops, penalties, and fumbles are unacceptable....and it makes me sick to see him clap and pat someone on the back after a stupid mistake, but when it comes to something as simple as catching a ball I think the players should bear a little more responsibility than 20%

[snapback]181403[/snapback]​

you are dealing with someone (Lexvol) that has an elementary education when it comes to knowing anything about football.

 

[gonygonygo]

And to me coaching has more to do with Sunday thru Friday...

Saturday, it's our players vs. other players. coaches just make personnel changes and call plays. the other players are performing better than ours.

there IS a such thing as players of one team being BETTER than another.
IMO, Alabama and Georgia has BETTER players than us right now. coaching doesn't fix everything.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by gonygonygo@Nov 3, 2005 5:47 PM
it's more than 20 - 80 percentages.  IMO, it's 50/50.

coaches put you in position and players actually have to make the plays.  if it were all in the coaching, every player that steps on the field would be equally capable of doing what the next guy can do.  or you could have a team of mediocre talent whooping on a heavily talented team just because of coaching.

[snapback]181405[/snapback]​

I would hate to see were that puts your intellect or IQ. Coaches have not put people in position to make many plays.

By the way...the SC team is a team with mediocre talent who beat a heavily talented team...as you so eloquently put it.

 

[Vol4ever]

I just think sometimes getting players that are not from the eastern part of the US say California do not understand what football in TN is all about. If you grow up in the south a VOL and become lucky enough to play in Knoxville you understand what being a VOl is all about.


just my .02

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by gonygonygo@Nov 3, 2005 5:41 PM
no need to keep asking the question because Lexvol refuses to answer (about the players being somewhat responsible).

[snapback]181399[/snapback]​

Lets discuss something more to your level...How bout them there Dawgs.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 6:10 PM
I would hate to see were that puts your intellect or IQ.  Coaches have not put people in position to make many plays.

By the way...the SC team is a team with mediocre talent who beat a heavily talented team...as you so eloquently put it.

[snapback]181450[/snapback]​

I don't know lex. I can't even count the occasions this season(multiple times each game) that there has been a good call and an opportunity for a big play, only to have a dropped pass or bad throw. We could argue all night about whether the drops and miscues have been the fault of the players or the coaches , but the opportunities have been there each and every game as a result of playcalling.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 6:18 PM
I don't know lex.  I can't even count the occasions this season(multiple times each game) that there has been a good call and an opportunity for a big play, only to have a dropped pass or bad throw.  We could argue all night about whether the drops and miscues have been the fault of the players or the coaches , but the opportunities have been there each and every game as a result of playcalling.

[snapback]181465[/snapback]​

I cannot understand why we cannot get our receivers isolated on a weak corner or a linebacker. It seems like every team I have watched this year is able to get a receiver open in space, at least once in a while.

I also cannot understand why we have not thrown more jump balls to receivers. It goes back to my playing not to lose theory.

I do not deny that there have been opportunities, but based on what CPF said before the season, and what Ainge and Clausen were saying in the spring we should have several gamebreaking opportunities, rather than the one or two a game.

For every good play call we have had, there has been another to stop the drive.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 6:23 PM
I cannot understand why we cannot get our receivers isolated on a weak corner or a linebacker.  It seems like every team I have watched this year is able to get a receiver open in space, at least once in a while. 

I also cannot understand why we have not thrown more jump balls to receivers.  It goes back to my playing not to lose theory.

I do not deny that there have been opportunities, but based on what CPF said before the season, and what Ainge and Clausen were saying in the spring we should have several gamebreaking opportunities, rather than the one or two a game. 

For every good play call we have had, there has been another to stop the drive.

[snapback]181470[/snapback]​

I think there have been a lot more opportunities than one or two a game, we have had more drops and bad throws than that. Another part of that is Clausen's tendency to check down every time a deep route is called. I don't blame him because he has shown he simply does not have the arm to make those type plays and I think had Ainge played better and coincidentally played more, there would have been a lot more attempts downfield. I don't mean to bash Clausen, but he really could not throw a deep ball to save his life....not his fault, just physical limitations. I really think the staff has tried to open things up this year and we have tried to hit the deep play even more than in previous years, but bad QB and WR play have limited the results to say the least.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 6:31 PM
I think there have been a lot more opportunities than one or two a game, we have had more drops and bad throws than that.  Another part of that is Clausen's tendency to check down every time a deep route is called.  I don't blame him because he has shown he simply does not have the arm to make those type plays and I think had Ainge played better and coincidentally played more, there would have been a lot more attempts downfield.  I don't mean to bash Clausen, but he really could not throw a deep ball to save his life....not his fault, just physical limitations.  I really think the staff has tried to open things up this year and we have tried to hit the deep play even more than in previous years, but bad QB and WR play have limited the results to say the least.

[snapback]181478[/snapback]​

Another point where we agree to disagree. IMO UTs scoring and big play opportunities have not been as plentiful as they should be.

 

[holdemvol]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Nov 3, 2005 6:34 PM
Another point where we agree to disagree.  IMO UTs scoring and big play opportunities have not been as plentiful as they should be.

[snapback]181480[/snapback]​

Umm......OK......I am not sure we have been watching the same games or maybe we have differing opinions how how many opportunities merit "plentiful". As I am sure you know, just because the QB does not throw deep does not mean a play was not called for a deep ball. UT has taken shot after shot, just with no results. You cannot be serious when claiming we only go deep 1 or 2 times a game, otherwise I must question if you have watched every minute of every game as you said in a previous post.

 

[wilburnVol]

Originally posted by brg72@Nov 3, 2005 6:23 PM
I challenge any Tennessee fan to show me a collective corps of players that have the personality of the Al Wilsons, Raynoch Thompsons, Deon Grants......

[snapback]181284[/snapback]​

:lolabove:
Deon Grant? The same Deon Gran who limped through his final season so he wouldn't get hurt? :realmad:

 

[USAF_Vol]

My wife saw him announcing the Louisville/Pitt game. She said he was "nice" looking. :shakehead: