Kirk Herbstreit on VOls during live chat

#52
#52
i was watching the louisville/PItt game and listened to mark may say it was almost all the coaches fault and we have been sliding down the sec for 3 years. there is plenty of blame to go around, to me the play calling stinks, when we have a chance to make a play we don't, the team has no confidence they look confused, QB situation has ruined the team this year and is the coaches fault. but the players haven't helped things along, fumbling, dropping balls, interceptions, the offense is a boring joke and that is the coaches fault. even if we make some plays, don't fumble we are 4-3 maybe 5-2 at best. we can all make excuses, if you want to look at it that way alabama's QB missed two sure touchdown passes that he overthrew. if you don't win games they are not going to punish the players they are going to fire the coaches they get paid the big bucks. they get paid to win games and make the university money.
 
#53
#53
Originally posted by smokedog#3@Nov 3, 2005 9:47 PM
i was watching the louisville/PItt game and listened to mark may say it was almost all the coaches fault and we have been sliding down the sec for 3 years.  there is plenty of blame to go around, to me the play calling stinks,  when we have a chance to make a play we don't,  the team has no confidence they look confused,  QB situation has ruined the team this year and is the coaches fault.  but the players haven't helped things along,  fumbling, dropping balls,  interceptions,  the offense is a boring joke and that is the coaches fault.  even if we make some plays, don't fumble we are 4-3 maybe 5-2 at best.  we can all make excuses,  if you want to look at it that way alabama's QB missed two sure touchdown passes that he overthrew.  if you don't win games they are not going to punish the players they are going to fire the coaches they get paid the big bucks.  they get paid to win games and make the university money.
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Those were some long sentences man. :crazy:
 
#54
#54
I was at UT when Al, Tee, Raynoch and all the other fellows were there, and they were some real warriors. The one who stands out the most was Al Wilson. Talking about killer instincts, this cat had so much intensity that if affected all of us. With that attitude, UT felt like they could defeat anybody in the country, and we did in '98.

Most of these young cats are great players, but they lack the warrior attitude to conquer all.
 
#55
#55
Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 4:29 PM
Have you been in the locker room?  How about team meetings?...No one on this site has any Idea what any of the coaches have done or not done to try to fix the offensive problems, it is all speculation...Do you honestly believe the coaching staff has not done everything they can to get these kids to execute?
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Well, if all of the above represent necessary involvement to evaluate our staff and team, it also stands to reason that you have no basis for defending for them. Defenders of the staff/blame the players camp isn't in those meeting either.

It's clear that players have to make plays. That's why we all fight like heck to get the best players.

But great talent and a great tradition cannot make up for bad coaching.

FL couldn't win before or after Spurrier, even though they have the "dream resources."

GA couldn't win before Richt, even though they had great talent, a great recruiting base, etc.

USC hasn't won in 25 years until Carroll got there.

If coaching didn't matter, we wouldn't care who the coaches were; and there wouldn't be good coaches worth defending, i.e. Fulmer & Co.
 
#56
#56
Originally posted by Jmxvol@Nov 3, 2005 3:59 PM
If it's one or two players repeatedly screwing up then it's their own fault and they are just bad apples....but when it's happening at every position every week, it's a sign of an undisciplined, poorly coached team.
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I wholly agree. I would also venture to say that PF's clapping come hell or high water is part of a "just do your best, honey" mentality that is about as far gone from "killer" as one can get.

That said, I do not presently advocate PF's leaving...yet.
 
#57
#57
Originally posted by Vol-In-Bama@Nov 3, 2005 4:13 PM
There is, as I have said before, plenty of blame to go around... The players do need to step up and be leaders.
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Got that right! :clapping: The coach can help, but it's the players that need to step up and be counted.
 
#58
#58
Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 3, 2005 5:31 PM
Another part of that is Clausen's tendency to check down every time a deep route is called. 
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Um...maybe I'm dim, but how do we know that RC is checking down on "deep route"? It appears to me that we check down (RC & EA) on one out of every 2 plays regardless of field position or down.

I'd have thought that his tendency to check out of a called play this often would have resulted in his being benched, especially when he so often checks into one of 3 plays.
 
#59
#59
Kirk is not necessarily blaming the players. In fact, he's actually point the finger at Fulmer. The head coach is responsible for the warrior attitude, or the killer mentality. UT has the talent, they don't have the right mindset. That's the coach's job.

We've all heard of coaches who could "take his and beat your's", and "take your's and beat his", and that's been lacking at UT lately.

Consider how much time Fulmer has spent on the Alabama mess. Not only literal lost time, but emotional time. Consider the personal attacks he has received. How many times have we heard the names "Phatlock", "Phattimus", etc...? That kind of stuff will affect a human being.

It's obvious from watching UT, that they have tremendous talent on both sides of the ball. But how many of the UT players have been arrested over the past few years? Lots. Fulmer got too caught up in this stuff, trying to help his players, instead of laying the law down to them and culling them. How many hours with lawyers?

Fulmer needs to focus on developing character in the squad. Look at the kids on almost any college football team today. Isn't it obvious that they need love, guidance, encouragement, and from time to time a swift kick in the fanny? And what do these players think when they read all of the stuff that's been in the press over the past few years?

The head coach is the one responsible, and I don't think Kirk is saying otherwise.
 
#60
#60
Originally posted by Liper@Nov 3, 2005 10:35 PM
Well, if all of the above represent necessary involvement to evaluate our staff and team, it also stands to reason that you have no basis for defending for them.  Defenders of the staff/blame the players camp isn't in those meeting either.

It's clear that players have to make plays.  That's why we all fight like heck to get the best players.

But great talent and a great tradition cannot make up for bad coaching.

FL couldn't win before or after Spurrier, even though they have the "dream resources."

GA couldn't win before Richt, even though they had great talent, a great recruiting base, etc.

USC hasn't won in 25 years until Carroll got there.

If coaching didn't matter, we wouldn't care who the coaches were; and there wouldn't be good coaches worth defending, i.e. Fulmer & Co.
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First of all, my only "defense" of the coaching staff is that SOME and I repeat SOME of the blame should go on the players. My stance is not that everything is the players fault and I have stated over and over again that there is plenty of blame to go on the coaching staff, but the players should ALSO be responsible for stupid mistakes they make. I do have a basis for putting SOME of the blame on the players because I watch them drop passes, fumble, and just make generally dumb mistakes week in and week out. I have seen what the players are doing, but no one on this board to my knowledge has been in the locker room and seen first hand what the coaching staff is or is not doing. The coaching staff is ultimately responsible for what has happened (I don't know how many times I have to point that out in defending my stance) but to give the players a free pass and just say "It's ALL bad coaching" is simplistic and just not right. Secondly, I have never stated that coaching did not matter and you actually help my case in defending Fulmer with your post. You are right, FLA and GA could not win when they did not have good coaching even with all SEC talent. Tennessee however has managed to win 9-10 games on a regular basis with comparable talent (this year being an exception). If our coaching is so bad, how do we manage to win all of these games year in and year out? Again, the coaches are at fault for plenty of what has gone on, but the players should also bear some responsibility for what they do on that field, especially when we are talking about something as simple as catching a pass. Am I way off base by saying the players should be held accountable to at least some degree for the sloppy play?
 
#61
#61
Originally posted by VolsWinRLose@Nov 3, 2005 10:47 PM
Um...maybe I'm dim, but how do we know that RC is checking down on "deep route"? It appears to me that we check down (RC & EA) on one out of every 2 plays regardless of field position or down.

I'd have thought that his tendency to check out of a called play this often would have resulted in his being benched, especially when he so often checks into one of 3 plays.
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By checking down I do not mean checking off the play at the line, I mean constantly dumping the ball off to his safety valve.
 
#62
#62
Originally posted by JennVols@Nov 3, 2005 4:12 PM
Kirk is right.  There is only so much a coach can do and then it's up to the players.  A lot of the players haven't done what was expected of them this year.
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Just a question, not a judgement. Does the coach have to keep playing guys who don't produce or does he drop them down on the depth chart and give the pine riders a shot at stardom? Ex: Cooter. In business, the sub-ordinates who don't produce get demoted or fired. And hasn't been stated here before that Division I football is biog business?
 
#63
#63
Originally posted by wncvolfan@Nov 4, 2005 7:30 PM
Just a question, not a judgement.  Does the coach have to keep playing guys who don't produce or does he drop them down on the depth chart and give the pine riders a shot at stardom?  Ex:  Cooter.  In business, the sub-ordinates who don't produce get demoted or fired.  And hasn't been stated here before that Division I football is biog business?
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I don't think Cooter would be an upgrade even as bad as UT's QB play has been. I would, however like to see Hannon benched and get a couple freshman some reps. Hannon's effort has been pathetic.
 
#64
#64
Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 4, 2005 7:34 PM
I don't think Cooter would be an upgrade even as bad as UT's QB play has been.  I would, however like to see Hannon benched and get a couple freshman some reps.  Hannon's effort has been pathetic.
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I guess we'll never know, will we. To my knowledge, Cooter hasn't played a down this year.
 
#65
#65
Originally posted by wncvolfan@Nov 4, 2005 7:40 PM
I guess we'll never know, will we.  To my knowledge, Cooter hasn't played a down this year.
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We probably won't know, and I don't claim to know what his ability is. We do know, however, that last year Fulmer let 2 freshman come in and win the QB position over a JR. and a SR. so I think it is safe to say that they are all given an opportunity to win the job in practice.
 
#66
#66
Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 4, 2005 7:49 PM
We probably won't know, and I don't claim to know what his ability is.  We do know, however, that last year Fulmer let 2 freshman come in and win the QB position over a JR. and a  SR. so I think it is safe to say that they are all given an opportunity to win the job in practice.
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I don't have an idea what he can do either, but you're all the time hearing about guys who look great in practice and then fold up during a game. At this point, I don't see that we have a lot to lose by giving JBC a couple of series. He might fool us and do some big things in a real game. Probably not, but when you're in our position, a little experimentation can't hurt us any worse than what's going on on the field right now. I'd like to see PF take the risk. It couldn't be any worse than going for it on 4th down when the situation screams "PUNT!".
 
#69
#69
:banghead: :bad: Works for ESPN.Played for Big Ten. Yea I'll listen to him.........................................when I'm ten feet under!
 
#70
#70
Originally posted by holdemvol@Nov 4, 2005 5:50 PM
By checking down I do not mean checking off the play at the line, I mean constantly dumping the ball off to his safety valve.
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My bad. But having seen EA do the same, I have always assumed it was actually the called play.
 
#71
#71
Originally posted by VolsWinRLose@Nov 5, 2005 12:10 AM
My bad. But having seen EA do the same, I have always assumed it was actually the called play.
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I think Clausen does it too much and Ainge doesn't do it enough. When RC checks down, there are already 9, 10, or 11 players close because they aren't worried about getting beat long. That results in not much happening yardage after the catch wise.

When Ainge has that option, the defense is playing out of the box a little more and he could get big gains from the back. Instead, he looks for the knockout punch and forces or overthrows. I don't blame him for looking for it. Lord knows we need it. It's just sometimes, that knockout punch looks a lot like our RB or FB.
 
#72
#72
Originally posted by USAF_Vol@Nov 4, 2005 9:11 PM
Is it wrong of me to want to punch Kirk in the throat??  :rolleyes:
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I guess just as long as you don't leave a mark...wait, no, go ahead, that way he won't be on TV today embarrassing himself
 
#73
#73
Originally posted by RockyTopEmpire@Nov 5, 2005 5:35 AM
I guess just as long as you don't leave a mark...wait, no, go ahead, that way he won't be on TV today embarrassing himself
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somebody needing the services of a ninja? :ninja:
 
#74
#74
Originally posted by volmanjr@Nov 5, 2005 8:01 AM
somebody needing the services of a ninja? :ninja:
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You will be contacted soon. Look for the midget by the oak tree in the west side of the park. Clap twice. He will know what to do :ninja:

 
#75
#75
Originally posted by RockyTopEmpire@Nov 5, 2005 8:09 AM
You will be contacted soon. Look for the midget by the oak tree in the west side of the park. Clap twice. He will know what to do :ninja:
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will he be wearin green and have a pot o gold? (ninjas don't come cheap you know) :ninja:
 

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