Knecht, Barnes, NIL, Development [split from Portal Thread]

#76
#76
tev.sm said:
I do agree that if Knecht dropped 30+ PPG in the Big Sky, he'd likely see some interest by NBA scouts, but its very unlikely that he would've been considered a top 10 pick, because of the level of competition and lower visibility in the Big Sky versus the SEC. Its very rare to see a four year, mid-major player get drafted, regardless of how many PPG they put up, because of this.

Dillon Jones, a senior, 6'6" 235 lb wing who scored 20.8 PPG in the Big Sky for Weber State on 49% FG, 33% 3PT FG is projected as a 2nd round pick this year in a weak draft class.

There are always a few players who put up 25+ PPG in weaker conferences who go undrafted every year. Antoine Davis, a 4 year player from Detroit Mercy during the '22-'23 season scored 28.2 PPG, and went undrafted. He's in the G League currently.

The visibility from NBA scouts at the P5 level matters, especially since they're more likely to attend the nationally televised games against top-25, or even top-10 teams, given there's usually multiple NBA prospects on either team.
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Yes his main reason for shooting up the draft boards was the exposure by joining a major program and proving he can do it against high level competition. So he really could’ve gotten that at a number of other programs and still be a lottery pick imo.

Barnes did help his defense I’m sure. DK is built different though and has an unmatched drive and work ethic.

Calipari gets credit for “developing” all these players that came through his program. But I think that concept is overvalued, especially when talking about 1 year guys. The NBA is going to identify talent.
 
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#80
#80
LeannaVol said:
I had neve put anyone on ignore before. I always thought no one could be so annoying that you cant just skip over their posts and move on. I stand corrected RudyVol. Well done.
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What I don't get is why people keep responding to him. If you think you're going to somehow 'win' the debate using facts and logic, or to shame them, it can't be done. They automatically win just by you taking the bait.

Want to eliminate a troll? Starve them of the single thing they crave - attention.
 
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#83
#83
turbovol said:
I'm a big Barnes fan--but let's stop with this notion that he or our staff "developed" Knecht. Knecht was obviously an excellent player from the first moment he stepped on the UT basketball practice floor. We didn't develop his skills. They were fully developed when he got here--obviously. What he got from UT was high-level exposure---exposure in a big conference, and TV exposure. He had the talent, we offered exposure--and we can be proud that Barnes and his staff were smart enough to recognize his talent at Northern Colorado and savvy and sharp enough to get him signed. It was a coup. He might also have benefited somewhat from Barnes's system--but he was a very talented player who was able to showcase his big skill set by joining a major program. What I found unusual about Knecht was his amazing self-confidence from day one. He was not only not fazed by joining UT and the SEC, he was confident and good from the jump.
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Def zero development...LMAO

Suggest you go back and watch the season and also listen to DK's own interviews
 
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#84
#84
cncchris33 said:
So you really don't believe a situation exists where a kid playing in what amounts to his "contract year" would turn down $1.7 mil to play somewhere else where they get more playing time, they're more of an offensive focus, they play for a staff with a proven track record of player development, and they have a greater chance of winning at a higher level...for say, $1.5 mil?

You really think it's that black and white? These kids have financial advisors and NIL reps for a reason.
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Are draft picks worried about playing time? Maybe, if they thought they wouldn't play. Seems like an unlikely scenario paying a guy 1.5M+ to not play as many minutes as he'd like.

I don't think it's that black and white but again, we're comparing Tennessee and Kentucky here. Not Tennessee and DePaul. It'd be foolish not to admit that Kentucky can offer the same exact thing we are minus proven coaching staff. 200k less to play with a more proven coach. Just not seeing it. There's more proven coaches than Barnes too.
 
#85
#85
turbovol said:
I'm a big Barnes fan--but let's stop with this notion that he or our staff "developed" Knecht. Knecht was obviously an excellent player from the first moment he stepped on the UT basketball practice floor. We didn't develop his skills. They were fully developed when he got here--obviously. What he got from UT was high-level exposure---exposure in a big conference, and TV exposure. He had the talent, we offered exposure--and we can be proud that Barnes and his staff were smart enough to recognize his talent at Northern Colorado and savvy and sharp enough to get him signed. It was a coup. He might also have benefited somewhat from Barnes's system--but he was a very talented player who was able to showcase his big skill set by joining a major program. What I found unusual about Knecht was his amazing self-confidence from day one. He was not only not fazed by joining UT and the SEC, he was confident and good from the jump.
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Found my burner account
 
#86
#86
pimo1 said:
I think everyone inside and outside the program realizes that Knecht and Barnes were a match made in heaven but, such a perfect match is highly unlikely to happen again. Knecht was the perfect guy that picked the perfect situation. There were questions about him as a defensive player and if he could produce at a high level. He came to a team that had a huge void at scorer and a staff known for making guys better defensive players. Every player that went through this program came out a better defensive player and most guys that left here contributed at their next stops to some extent if healthy. But, there is one really big but. There are not a lot of guys built like that.

Why do so many kids leave here early? It's because Barnes is old school and only players with that type of mentality that want to be coached hard can take it. Even Grant Williams said the idea of coming back his senior year was never in his mind. That is not on any level a knock on Barnes its just how kids are these days.. they cant take hard coaching. Most of them don't want to be team players they want to be the man. Barnes attracts smart realistic guys likely to make good business decisions. Like DK. I have a feeling like every year once this roster is finalized things will be fine. HE will get his guys like he always does.
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I posted comments yesterday that were made from a player in the portal. He said the exact same thing. He thought Barnes “rode the players” too much and “talked out of his a$$. He had a lot of animosity towards Barnes and stated some of the players weren’t as good as he was. He said Aidoo was soft…. The same player also said he should’ve started last year.
 
#87
#87
tev.sm said:
There are always a few players who put up 25+ PPG in weaker conferences who go undrafted every year. Antoine Davis, a 4 year player from Detroit Mercy during the '22-'23 season scored 28.2 PPG, and went undrafted. He's in the G League currently.

The visibility from NBA scouts at the P5 level matters, especially since they're more likely to attend the nationally televised games against top-25, or even top-10 teams, given there's usually multiple NBA prospects on either team.
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I disagree. Not saying the visibility can't help at all, but NBA teams aren't unfamiliar with prospects. Sounds like they were correct in their evaluation of Antoine Davis.
 
#90
#90
vol94 said:
I posted comments yesterday that were made from a player in the portal. He said the exact same thing. He thought Barnes “rode the players” too much and “talked out of his a$$. He had a lot of animosity towards Barnes and stated some of the players weren’t as good as he was. He said Aidoo was soft…. The same player also said he should’ve started last year.
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and that is an indictment of the players not Barnes they are SOFT primadonnas
 
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#91
#91
Delmar said:
Surely that’s not the best you’ve got. But I’ll never know because you just hit the Ignore list. No time for trolls or foolish posts.
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You're a softie that got upset over an opinion and then got even more upset when I replied generically and moved on from the question. You block people online, which is also soft. You felt the need to tell me you were blocking me so you could get the last word to spare your fragile ego. You quote posts and comment on them to garner likes and add nothing to a conversation, again for your ego. Your avatar is ugly, probably like you.

There you go.
 
#92
#92
pimo1 said:
and that is an indictment of the players not Barnes they are SOFT primadonnas
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Agree. I wasn’t going to say the name but most will most won’t go back and reread my posts.

The player I was referring to is Jefferson.

He was on campus all spring so kudos to UT for letting him complete the semester. Maybe that’s the policy for all universities.
 
#93
#93
RudyVol said:
Are draft picks worried about playing time? Maybe, if they thought they wouldn't play. Seems like an unlikely scenario paying a guy 1.5M+ to not play as many minutes as he'd like.

I don't think it's that black and white but again, we're comparing Tennessee and Kentucky here. Not Tennessee and DePaul. It'd be foolish not to admit that Kentucky can offer the same exact thing we are minus proven coaching staff. 200k less to play with a more proven coach. Just not seeing it. There's more proven coaches than Barnes too.
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A couple of things...
1.) In Kentucky, Lanier is going to pay a 6% state income tax ($107,000) so, a $200k difference now becomes a $93k difference.

2.) We don't know how much of a draft pick Lanier really is. We know he wasn't enough of one this year to even get an invite to the combine. With an entirely new roster at UK, I'd think he might find the stability and established order of Tennessee more appealing, even for an unknown lesser amount of money.

3.) You can maybe count the number of coaches more proven in the player development department than Rick Barnes on two hands, but Mark Pope isn't one of them. If $200k (which is really much less as noted above) is the difference in being the #20 overall pick, and the #40 overall pick (just as an example), then that's a 4-year contract difference of $16 million and whatever a mid 2nd-rd pick would make. Seems like a small sacrifice for a potentially huge return.
 
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#94
#94
cncchris33 said:
A couple of things...
1.) In Kentucky, Lanier is going to pay a 6% state income tax ($107,000) so, a $200k difference now becomes a $93k difference.

2.) We don't know how much of a draft pick Lanier really is. We know he wasn't enough of one this year to even get an invite to the combine. With an entirely new roster at UK, I'd think he might find the stability and established order of Tennessee more appealing, even for an unknown lesser amount of money.

3.) You can maybe count the number of coaches more proven in the player development department than Rick Barnes on two hands, but Mark Pope isn't one of them. If $200k (which is really much less as noted above) is the difference in being the #20 overall pick, and the #40 overall pick (just as an example), then that's a 4-year contract difference of $16 million and whatever a mid 2nd-rd pick would make. Seems like a small sacrifice for a potentially huge return.
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1. For sure. I think all players only compare the bottom line of their deals. $93k difference in a 1.5M contract isn't a deal breaker. For smaller deals in the 500k range that becomes a bit more significant.
2/3. Agree to an extent. I imagine most highly sought players are confident in their abilities and work ethic. Agree Barnes is one of the best at developing talent but I'm not convinced the difference in him and Mark Pope is as drastic as it's being made out to be.
 
#95
#95
RudyVol said:
I disagree. Not saying the visibility can't help at all, but NBA teams aren't unfamiliar with prospects. Sounds like they were correct in their evaluation of Antoine Davis.
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If NBA scouts were familiar with Knecht's talent & potential when he was at Northern Colorado, they would've identified him as a first or second round NBA draft prospect and given him feedback that would've encouraged him to declare for the NBA draft and forego his last year of eligibility.

Knecht did a lot of what he did at Tennessee at Northern Colorado, so he should have been identified by NBA scouts as a draft prospect last year, based on your opinion.
 
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#96
#96
vol94 said:
Agree. I wasn’t going to say the name but most will most won’t go back and reread my posts.

The player I was referring to is Jefferson.

He was on campus all spring so kudos to UT for letting him complete the semester. Maybe that’s the policy for all universities.
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Of all the guys on the team, a red shirt freshman who still wasn’t playing any minutes due to rumored academic issues talking trash about the coach and some teammates at a bar on the strip doesn’t strike me as reliable information. JMO
 
#98
#98
walkenvol said:
Of all the guys on the team, a red shirt freshman who still wasn’t playing any minutes due to rumored academic issues talking trash about the coach and some teammates at a bar on the strip doesn’t strike me as reliable information. JMO
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Its not that what he said isn't 'true' it's about context. We all know Barnes is old school and that's one reason why all the players we have seen on his teams that did well were blue-collar, gym rat, coach-me-hard type guys. If you're not that type and are one of these new age soft arse me first guys.... you're gonna have problems. Most high-profile players are not gonna be on board with that type of coach/program. Most of them do not have the structure around them to say hey you need this to get better. most of them wont have the sense to know taking less can often lead to a lot more gains down the road. The tax thing however much true is lost on most players... they see that number on the contract and fall for it. If you're a player in the NBA and the Grizzlies offered max contract and get a supermax offer from the Lakers most players would take the Lakers contract without a thought not knowing its way less money because of CA taxes and not only that cost of living. I remember having a really long conversation with my ex wife explaining to her that 140k a year in Atlanta is less than 100k a year in Chattanooga because of cost of living and state taxes. Comparing money at UK and UT there is state tax and also the fact that inc-st is contagious and those big ass possums up there. You'd have to pay me twice as much to play there and guarantee me starters minutes.
 
#99
#99
tev.sm said:
If NBA scouts were familiar with Knecht's talent & potential when he was at Northern Colorado, they would've identified him as a first or second round NBA draft prospect and given him feedback that would've encouraged him to declare for the NBA draft and forego his last year of eligibility.

Knecht did a lot of what he did at Tennessee at Northern Colorado, so he should have been identified by NBA scouts as a draft prospect last year, based on your opinion.
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Similar stats at Northern Colorado and Tennessee are not equal. 21 ppg (including a stretch of games he was not 100% healthy dragging down his average) in the SEC doesn't translate to 21 ppg in the Big Sky imo. The scale is speculative but averaging 21 ppg in the SEC could translate to 30+ ppg in the Big Sky. Does that translate to a top 10 NBA draft projection? Discuss away. I've probably beaten it to death at this point and there will never be an answer. My answer is yes. Dalton Knecht was going to be Dalton Knecht whether he wore orange or any other color. Barnes helped obviously but I think he'd still be a 1st rounder at minimum bc NBA scouts are not dummies.
 
#100
#100
pimo1 said:
Its not that what he said isn't 'true' it's about context. We all know Barnes is old school and that's one reason why all the players we have seen on his teams that did well were blue-collar, gym rat, coach-me-hard type guys. If you're not that type and are one of these new age soft arse me first guys.... you're gonna have problems. Most high-profile players are not gonna be on board with that type of coach/program. Most of them do not have the structure around them to say hey you need this to get better. most of them wont have the sense to know taking less can often lead to a lot more gains down the road. The tax thing however much true is lost on most players... they see that number on the contract and fall for it. If you're a player in the NBA and the Grizzlies offered max contract and get a supermax offer from the Lakers most players would take the Lakers contract without a thought not knowing its way less money because of CA taxes and not only that cost of living. I remember having a really long conversation with my ex wife explaining to her that 140k a year in Atlanta is less than 100k a year in Chattanooga because of cost of living and state taxes. Comparing money at UK and UT there is state tax and also the fact that inc-st is contagious and those big ass possums up there. You'd have to pay me twice as much to play there and guarantee me starters minutes.
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Not sure how you got all that from my simple statement that Jefferson talking trash about his coach and some teammates holds zero weight with me as I’d view him as a disgruntled ex player who never saw the court. Doesn’t mean everything Jefferson said is incorrect, just that I’m not believing anything disparaging he says on his way out the door on his word alone. Has nothing in the world to do with everything else you said which is clearly your opinion of things.
 
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