"Lack of high school talent in TN"

[Maximum Jack]

In regards to the 3 states of Tennessee tangent: are there any other Chattanoogans here? I have always felt like fandom in this city is pretty evenly divided between UGA, Bama and UT (and Auburn coming in a step or two behind those three programs . In the 90s, Gator fans even started to come out of the woodwork.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I said "many", I did not say "all" or even "most".

That being said, I think Tennessee (at least Middle and West TN) is one of the more diverse states in the South when it comes to college fandom. The Vols don't have a monopoly on the state to the degree that Bama/Auburn, Ole Miss/MSU, Arkansas, LSU, etc have in their home states.

And that is a credit to the state of Tennessee. People move to places like Nashville because of the solid jobs available and the quality of life in the area. But that also means that a lot of kids don't grow up in Volunteer households.

Having grown up in Bama, I am going to call BS on you. Alabama has a diverse fanbase made up of almost equally Bama/Barner fans with many others, notably UT, thrown in the mix. Yes that have a Majority of in state school fans, but they are split. Tenn on the other hand is made up PRIMARILY of UT fans. There are the 3 or 4 Vandy fans as well as a few fans of MTSU, UofM, ETSU, UTChat thrown in there that same as Bama has UAB, Troy, etc. Your state though is split down the middel, ours is predominately orange. Any given Saturday in Athens, AL I will see mostly Bama and Auburn, followed by a good number of UT fans. The orange outnumbers those of other schools in the state like (as mentioned above) Troy, UAB, etc.

Yes, Bama is number two in my team list, but don't try coming on this board talking about something that you don't know about. Tennessee is nearly all orange from end to end, Bama, well you guys can't decided on Crimson and white or orange and blue.

 

[bamawriter]

Having grown up in Bama, I am going to call BS on you. Alabama has a diverse fanbase made up of almost equally Bama/Barner fans with many others, notably UT, thrown in the mix. Yes that have a Majority of in state school fans, but they are split. Tenn on the other hand is made up PRIMARILY of UT fans. There are the 3 or 4 Vandy fans as well as a few fans of MTSU, UofM, ETSU, UTChat thrown in there that same as Bama has UAB, Troy, etc. Your state though is split down the middel, ours is predominately orange. Any given Saturday in Athens, AL I will see mostly Bama and Auburn, followed by a good number of UT fans. The orange outnumbers those of other schools in the state like (as mentioned above) Troy, UAB, etc.

Yes, Bama is number two in my team list, but don't try coming on this board talking about something that you don't know about. Tennessee is nearly all orange from end to end, Bama, well you guys can't decided on Crimson and white or orange and blue.

Glen, I live in Nashville, and I have for pretty much my entire life. While Tennessee has a clear majority, they do not have anywhere close to the monopoly that Bama and AU have in Alabama. Memphis is much the same way.

Yes, there are fans of other schools in every state, but the state of Tennessee is much more diverse once you get west of the Cumberland Plateau.

To reinforce my point: the Vol Radio Network is carried on one radio station in the state of Alabama, in Huntsville. The Crimson Tide network is carried on three stations in Middle TN and another in Chattanooga. There's obviously enough Bama fans in TN that it's in the financial interest of those stations to carry Bama's games.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Glen, I live in Nashville, and I have for pretty much my entire life. While Tennessee has a clear majority, they do not have anywhere close to the monopoly that Bama and AU have in Alabama. Memphis is much the same way.

Yes, there are fans of other schools in every state, but the state of Tennessee is much more diverse once you get west of the Cumberland Plateau.

See, you are missing the point. Tennessee has a higher percentage of fans in the state than Bama has in Alabama. You are split nearly even with the cow college. With the advent of Troy playing some pretty good ball, you are erroded even further. UT doesn't have the in state adversary for fans that Alabama does. While you see a smattering of fans for different schools here in TN, they are primarily UT fans. You keep throwing Bama and AU together as a fan base, I can understand to some degree me pulling for UT everygame they play but pulling for the team I grew up with the other times. You putting Bama and the Barners in the same group is just wrong. The same with MSU/UM, they don't get along at all and represent a SPLIT fanbase. If you are trying to say that there is a higher % of the population of Bama fans in Alabama than there are UT fans in Tenn, you are wrong. If you want to say that there are a higher % of AL/AU fans in Alabama than UT fans in Tenn, I would say they would about be a tie.

 

[Biopsyman]

Bandwagon fans are the worst

 

[bamawriter]

See, you are missing the point. Tennessee has a higher percentage of fans in the state than Bama has in Alabama. You are split nearly even with the cow college.

You just lost all credibility right there. The fan population in Alabama is nowhere close to evenly split between Bama and AU. It was maybe 60-40 Bama during Bama's worst times in the early 00s. On average Bama pulls about 65% or more.

With the advent of Troy playing some pretty good ball, you are erroded even further.

This is absurd. Even alums of Troy, UAB, USA, etc are typically Bama or Auburn fans.

UT doesn't have the in state adversary for fans that Alabama does. While you see a smattering of fans for different schools here in TN, they are primarily UT fans. You keep throwing Bama and AU together as a fan base, I can understand to some degree me pulling for UT everygame they play but pulling for the team I grew up with the other times. You putting Bama and the Barners in the same group is just wrong. The same with MSU/UM, they don't get along at all and represent a SPLIT fanbase.

You are missing the point. What I'm saying is that Tennessee, as a state, is more diverse in its fan population. There are large populations of fans of MANY schools in Middle and West TN. I'm not saying that Bama carries a higher percentage of its home state than Tennessee, nor am I making the completely stupid suggestion that people are rooting for both Bama and Auburn, or Ole Miss and MSU.

What I am saying is that in the state of Alabama, it's pretty much Bama and Auburn, and other fanbases make up 5% at best. Same goes for Ole Miss and MSU in Mississippi. LSU probably carries a similar percentage all by itself in LA. Same goes for Arkansas.

Tennessee doesn't have any in-state competition outside of Vandy. But the Vols carry, at best, 70% of Middle and West TN, and that's probably being generous. So the point is, if you grew up in Alabama, you were either a Bama or Auburn fan, or an Ole Miss or MSU fan in MS, or an LSU fan in LA, or an Arkansas fan in AR. The same cannot be said for the Vols outside of East TN.

If you are trying to say that there is a higher % of the population of Bama fans in Alabama than there are UT fans in Tenn, you are wrong.

Not what I'm saying.

If you want to say that there are a higher % of AL/AU fans in Alabama than UT fans in Tenn, I would say they would about be a tie.

That is ridiculous. In East TN? Sure. In Middle or West? It's not even close.

 

[volinSmyrna]

How about Randall Cobb. He's not even on the list, but had an outstanding career at UK and he was from ALCOA.

Dang...how'd I forget that one. I guess I had that memory supressed so deep I didn't want to acknowledge it. However, I don't think we actually fumbled that recruiting. We told the truth and told him he wouldn't be a QB....UK lied to him, so he signed with them where he ultimately played what position??? oh yeah, WR. Sometimes we forget that recruiting is simply telling an 18 year old boy what he wants to hear.

 

[rocky top buzz]

You just lost all credibility right there. The fan population in Alabama is nowhere close to evenly split between Bama and AU. It was maybe 60-40 Bama during Bama's worst times in the early 00s. On average Bama pulls about 65% or more.

I think it's all perspective. I have family on my side and my wife's side who live in Alabubba, a couple of dozen people in total if you want a number and ALL of them are Auburn fans. I've got one ex cousin-in-law (yes, only in the state of Alabama) who was a cheerleader at Alabubba but she's crazy like most of them.

You're right about the non-local fans being reflective of Tennessee being a great state. I had an Alabubba fan come up to me at my kids baseball game and say "I'd cheer for Afghanistan before I'd cheer for the Vols." So I said "oh really, If Alabubba is so great, why are you living in Tennessee? There is plenty of great real estate available down there, and what's even better, if you don't like your neighbors you just hitch up and move your house down the road!"

 

[orangetitanfan]

tennessee produces some exceptional players, but tennessee does not produce enough. in short, that's the problem. that 1998 team had all kinds of talent not from tennessee. here are a list of recruits who made the rivals 250 list in recent years and were from the state of tennessee. if not indicated in parentheses, the player signed with tennessee.

2012
chad voytik (pittsburgh)
drae bowles
jovon robinson (auburn)
brian kimbrow (vandy)
graham shuler (stanford)
caleb azubike (vandy)

2011
antonio richardson
cameron clear

2010
jacques smith
barry brunetti (west virginia)
keiwone malone (alabama)

2009
marlon brown (georgia)
austin long (georgia)

2008
barrett jones (alabama)
aaron douglas

2007
bj coleman
chris donald
rashad mason (north carolina)
harrison smith (notre dame)
golden tate (notre dame)
alex watkins (alabama)

2006
mike berry (auburn)
jacques mcclendon
brandon warren (fsu)

in 2013, jalen ramsey, frank herron, cornelius elder, christian morris, jason carr, jalen reeves-mabin, and austin sanders are in the rivals 250.

reeves-mabin, carr, and sanders are current tennessee commits

Voytik (Pitt) was not all that great at Cleveland. I remember ESPN coming to do the Bradley/Cleveland game a couple of years ago and Bradley ran all over them. Bryce Copeland made Voytik look like a Pee Wee league player!

 

[vol-un-tear]

Funny thing is you can make a National Champion Team with talent from Tennessee. Even all Vols. Add the kids from Tennessee who went to other schools...

 

[iluvsmesumdooley]

I think it's all perspective. I have family on my side and my wife's side who live in Alabubba, a couple of dozen people in total if you want a number and ALL of them are Auburn fans. I've got one ex cousin-in-law (yes, only in the state of Alabama) who was a cheerleader at Alabubba but she's crazy like most of them.

You're right about the non-local fans being reflective of Tennessee being a great state. I had an Alabubba fan come up to me at my kids baseball game and say "I'd cheer for Afghanistan before I'd cheer for the Vols." So I said "oh really, If Alabubba is so great, why are you living in Tennessee? There is plenty of great real estate available down there, and what's even better, if you don't like your neighbors you just hitch up and move your house down the road!"

'

Stupid, toothless rednecks won't move to that Third World sh**hole because there are no jobs down there.
If you have no degree and have lived your whole life around Knoxville, you have a God-given duty to pull for UT. If not, move dat arse out, beeeoch!!!

 

[volmansam]

Being a high school student, I know Tennessee has a lot of underrated talent. I wouldn't say we are at the level of other states, yet there is definitely a lot of talent within the state

 

[Boca Vol]

Being a high school student, I know Tennessee has a lot of underrated talent. I wouldn't say we are at the level of other states, yet there is definitely a lot of talent within the state

In today's world of YouTube highlights and the nature of the recruiting industry, I would disagree with you. There is some talent in TN and the top talent is very good but the number of top players in CA, TX, & FL far outnumber the total a state like TN produces.

 

[RichRollin]

JMO, but the biggest issue I see in the greater Knoxville area is "daddy ball". I say this because I've seen daddys who were bad coaches coach the same group of kids from the age of 7-12 more times than I can count. The only reason daddy coaches in these situations is because his son sucks and daddy coaching is the only way to know his son won't ride the pine. This causes a lot of kids to be played out of position and vastly undercoached due to lack of knowledge from daddy/coach. And while kids are playing for legit middle school programs in other states they are playing daddy ball up to the 7th or 8th grade around here in many cases.

On the other hand, I've said this before and I'll say it again. Places like D-1 and Johnny Long's academy are heaven sent for Knoxville area. In due time these facilities will have an impact on the talent level locally, they already are. Kids can now get on legit strength and conditioning programs as well as getting sport specific, at times position specific training from a very young age. Something that's been going on in more advanced areas for decades. This isn't just football, various sports. The young baseball talent in this area is pretty impressive. I've seen some fabulous young athletes in this area that just needed the right coaching. But they don't get it and end up never heard of when it's all said and done.

Just my take on things.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

The supposed LACK OF TALENT is a direct result of poor Daddy Ball Coaching in Youth Leagues and poor and poorer Coaching in Middle and High Schools.
Face it..............few if any are getting in and staying in the Coaching Profession locally.
Most good ones go on to College or get into Admin where they can make some money!!

thats also not true. It is obviously a numbers game, lets look at populations for some of the nations "hot beds"

Ranked by 50 the 50 states

1. california 38million
2. texas 26million
4. Florida 19million
8. Georgia 10million
9. NC 10million
17. Tn 6.5million
23 Alabama 5million

there is just a few of the big hotbeds. to sound unbiased I stuck bama in there which we know has some good talent, but the other big hotbeds we try to hit, cali, tx, fl, ga, nc are all top 10 in the nation by population, the fact is the more people that are in the state the more likely they will have more (better) athletes.


to the guy calling d1 and such saviors i think is ignorant, lets just be realistic some of the best athletes in football are coming out of extremely poor areas that even if they wanted to could NOT afford high level training like that. I'm not saying that it will not help, because it cannot hurt, but to assume most big name players are coming through arenas of such is silly.

 

[volfan2024]

Of all the players I see playing in highschool a lot of them do go to other schools. UT use to not recruit in state unless a player was great back when we were a great team. Now it seems a lot of the good players such as the rb from Blackman (who's name escapes me) is playing rb for Ole Miss. He actually scored a big td the last time I saw him playing for Ole Miss. There always seems to be great players on Ensworth as well that go somewhere else to play.

 

[jps2194]

thats also not true. It is obviously a numbers game, lets look at populations for some of the nations "hot beds"

Ranked by 50 the 50 states

1. california 38million
2. texas 26million
4. Florida 19million
8. Georgia 10million
9. NC 10million
17. Tn 6.5million
23 Alabama 5million

there is just a few of the big hotbeds. to sound unbiased I stuck bama in there which we know has some good talent, but the other big hotbeds we try to hit, cali, tx, fl, ga, nc are all top 10 in the nation by population, the fact is the more people that are in the state the more likely they will have more (better) athletes.


to the guy calling d1 and such saviors i think is ignorant, lets just be realistic some of the best athletes in football are coming out of extremely poor areas that even if they wanted to could NOT afford high level training like that. I'm not saying that it will not help, because it cannot hurt, but to assume most big name players are coming through arenas of such is silly.

Yes, you stated the obvious about a numbers game. But, regardless of how good of a raw athlete you are, without some quality coaching at some point in your career, you will not amount to much. A lesser athlete with sound technique will beat an athlete with no technique. When you combine a great athlete with quality coaching, you get a D-1 prospect. They both (coaching and talent) have to exist to make it to the next level. That is the point the poster was attempting to make and I think you missed the point.

Also, as a side note to your comment about affordability, some of the athletes are sponsored or provided use of the facility free of charge. It is great for their marketing to put a D1 player up on their wall.

Finally, the poster never said most big names are coming out of D1?

 

[RichRollin]

thats also not true. It is obviously a numbers game, lets look at populations for some of the nations "hot beds"

Ranked by 50 the 50 states

1. california 38million
2. texas 26million
4. Florida 19million
8. Georgia 10million
9. NC 10million
17. Tn 6.5million
23 Alabama 5million

there is just a few of the big hotbeds. to sound unbiased I stuck bama in there which we know has some good talent, but the other big hotbeds we try to hit, cali, tx, fl, ga, nc are all top 10 in the nation by population, the fact is the more people that are in the state the more likely they will have more (better) athletes.


to the guy calling d1 and such saviors i think is ignorant, lets just be realistic some of the best athletes in football are coming out of extremely poor areas that even if they wanted to could NOT afford high level training like that. I'm not saying that it will not help, because it cannot hurt, but to assume most big name players are coming through arenas of such is silly.

You're an idiot. Sport specific training from a young age makes a huge difference. That doesn't mean every great player does it. But it makes a huge diffence in a lot of other players. And your comment about "inner city" kids not affording it, I'm not sure where to go with that. Just seems a bit stereotypical to me. Don't think because someone is from a rough area that they don't have money. East Knoxville is rough as hell. But when I used to work in healthcare, I was shocked to see how many people from out east had nursing and pharmacy jobs, or we're an attending physician, or a resident training to be a physician. Again, they lived in the roughest side of town and were college grads with a career. That's simply where they're from and where they choose to continue living. Funny how alot of these inner coty kids you speak of make it to all these camps, unofficial visits, etc. And you don't have to be from the ghetto to be a D-1 athlete. There are plenty people who can in fact afford the training.

On the other hand...daddy ball is in fact a HUGE hinderance for a lot of local kids. Get off your high horse and quit trying to tell me what's going on in my area.

 

[RichRollin]

Yes, you stated the obvious about a numbers game. But, regardless of how good of a raw athlete you are, without some quality coaching at some point in your career, you will not amount to much. A lesser athlete with sound technique will beat an athlete with no technique. When you combine a great athlete with quality coaching, you get a D-1 prospect. They both (coaching and talent) have to exist to make it to the next level. That is the point the poster was attempting to make and I think you missed the point.

Also, as a side note to your comment about affordability, some of the athletes are sponsored or provided use of the facility free of charge. It is great for their marketing to put a D1 player up on their wall.

Finally, the poster never said most big names are coming out of D1?

Good post. Plus I pay attention to all sports...baseball, hoops, and football. If one thinks hitting lessons from 7-18 years old doesnt make a difference they are hopeless. Or workout programs. Not going to the field house and working out with the teammates. I'm talking legit programs focusing on strength, agility, and proper dieting. Also, sport specific and position specific training. Position specific training can very well help a kid who goes to camps. In no way does that mean a kid who doesn't do that can't or won't make it. Many kids are born to do it. But these programs do in fact make a HUGE difference in what would be the "borderline athlete" without it. I've seen it happen.

 

[playaut0785]

Tennessee produces great football players. Just not in the quantity that other states in the SEC do. And as of late, the cream of the crop is going elsewhere. And, don't forget that if Tennessee football gets back to it's winning ways, then younger people in our state will gain more interest in playing the sport. I bet if you went down to Alabama, they'd have record numbers of youth signing up to play football.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

Of all the players I see playing in highschool a lot of them do go to other schools. UT use to not recruit in state unless a player was great back when we were a great team. Now it seems a lot of the good players such as the rb from Blackman (who's name escapes me) is playing rb for Ole Miss. He actually scored a big td the last time I saw him playing for Ole Miss. There always seems to be great players on Ensworth as well that go somewhere else to play.

I'Tavius Mathers

 

[EastTN28]

Tennessee produces great football players. Just not in the quantity that other states in the SEC do. And as of late, the cream of the crop is going elsewhere. And, don't forget that if Tennessee football gets back to it's winning ways, then younger people in our state will gain more interest in playing the sport. I bet if you went down to Alabama, they'd have record numbers of youth signing up to play football.

Hmmm interesting theory, but I disagree. The problem is partly demographics. Demographically, East TN and even Middle TN to a certain extent (outside of Nashville) is predominantly a very rural, white state. More similar to say, Kentucky demographically than Alabama. TN is just not going to produce the talent at skill positions you find in South Florida.

The best football, which has already been mentioned, is played in Memphis which is recruited very heavily by every SEC West school and even some in the East.

 

[treedogvol]

Did you read the post on here about Willis being snubbed by UT...as is always the thinking about Tennessee HS players.... The university head is not Tennessee and they could care less about TN in my oppenion .... It just big Millions of $$$ to them... AL WILSON was a small LB with a big TN heart...:hi:

 

[jps2194]

Did you read the post on here about Willis being snubbed by UT...as is always the thinking about Tennessee HS players.... The university head is not Tennessee and they could care less about TN in my oppenion .... It just big Millions of $$$ to them... AL WILSON was a small LB with a big TN heart...:hi:

Al Wilson was not small - 6'0 240. The average LB size in the 2011 combine was 6'2 242.

He had a huge heart, but was definitely not small.

 

[slatermclean]

Tennessee does have some great talent but we need to win the state back like CBJ wants to, then we will see it. No reason that Golden Tate and Pat Willis should ever have gone anywhere else..