Lack of talent??

[Plateauvol]

We will see next year. I thimk its a combination right now. The players are not that good and the coaching is average. Good players make good coaching. This team would be a lot different with maymon out there. You throw him in with the freshman for next year and there isnt any excuses.

:mf_surrender::huh: I Agree

 

[Plateauvol]

Hasn't had time to build a ton of relationships so he has focused on only one or two per year. Look at the 2014 class. He is going after a ton of 4 stars and some 5 stars. He is building relationships with them.

opcorn: Sure hope so, for his sake and for the future of the BB program. opcorn:

 

[cncchris33]

This is the only part I disagree with. I'd say they're pretty much even in that category. I've seen Yemi run into our own players and blow plenty of assignments on defense. Hall can draw the charge and swat shots too. Not trying to diss Yemi, because he plays with tenacity, but I think I'd take Hall at the 5 over Yemi any day. Almost solely because of his length and athleticism advantages. JMO.

Considering their pedigree, opportunity, and amount of experience, Yemi is three times the player Hall is.

 

[volbeast33]

Yea..stokes.

You'll have some guys who, fall into your lap because of circumstances, but recruiting is relationship based.

I don't buy that it takes three to four yrs to talk a high school.kid to come.to your school. Other coaches have had much better success in yr two recruiting at other schools.

 

[cncchris33]

Jarnell Stokes 4*
Trae Golden 3*
Jordan McRae 4*
Kenny Hall 2*
Josh Richardson 3-4*
Yemi Makanjoula 3*
Derek Reese 3*
Armani Moore 2*
Quinton Chievous 2*
D'montre Edwards 2*
Dwight Miller 2*
Skylar Mcbee 2*
Brandon Lopez 2*

This is how I would rank them.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I don't buy that it takes three to four yrs to talk a high school.kid to come.to your school. Other coaches have had much better success in yr two recruiting at other schools.

Coming from a mid major and to a school with NCAA black cloud....who?

 

[calban]

Sorry BTO.
No cigar.
There's plenty of talent on this team.
What you have at this point is a young coach that's lost and his players sense it.
They've struggled all season and just been told to come out and do the same thing.
Example: the 3 pt shot for this team is just another turnover. 26 last night. I mean give me a break.
Martin can salvage an NIT run, but he has got to get his head on right.
Find a system that uses the strengths of his players.
It ain't slug ball and it ain't motion offense that his players don't understand.

 

[volbeast33]

Coming from a mid major and to a school with NCAA black cloud....who?

The NCAA black cloud was gone the summer before his first signing day. It had zero effect on his second class.

 

[knowthevols]

Sorry BTO.
No cigar.
There's plenty of talent on this team.
What you have at this point is a young coach that's lost and his players sense it.
They've struggled all season and just been told to come out and do the same thing.
Example: the 3 pt shot for this team is just another turnover. 26 last night. I mean give me a break.
Martin can salvage an NIT run, but he has got to get his head on right.
Find a system that uses the strengths of his players.
It ain't slug ball and it ain't motion offense that his players don't understand.

I said that last year.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Sorry BTO.
No cigar.
There's plenty of talent on this team.
What you have at this point is a young coach that's lost and his players sense it.
They've struggled all season and just been told to come out and do the same thing.
Example: the 3 pt shot for this team is just another turnover. 26 last night. I mean give me a break.
Martin can salvage an NIT run, but he has got to get his head on right.
Find a system that uses the strengths of his players.
It ain't slug ball and it ain't motion offense that his players don't understand.

The numbers don't lie Cal, we aren't talented. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that, I've put the numbers out there for everyone to see.

An interesting find would be compare our 12 to other SEC teams 12 and see where we stack up. I think many would be surprised

 

[bleedingTNorange]

The NCAA black cloud was gone the summer before his first signing day. It had zero effect on his second class.

Once again...relationships.

Kids who saw what went down lost interest and worried about sanctions. By the time a coach was brought in and sanctions were removed most of those kids already had a final list.

There's a reason his recruiting has gotten better every year...RELATIONSHIPS.

 

[cncchris33]

Sorry BTO.
No cigar.
There's plenty of talent on this team.
What you have at this point is a young coach that's lost and his players sense it.
They've struggled all season and just been told to come out and do the same thing.
Example: the 3 pt shot for this team is just another turnover. 26 last night. I mean give me a break.
Martin can salvage an NIT run, but he has got to get his head on right.
Find a system that uses the strengths of his players.
It ain't slug ball and it ain't motion offense that his players don't understand.

Not so sure I agree about there being plenty of talent, though at this point, Martin shoulders some of the blame because he is responsible for 70% of the current roster. McRae and Richardson are the only two you could say have been performing to, or above their expected level of play. Golden is down. McBee is down. Stokes is starting to bring it with some consistency. Hall is down. Reese is still a question mark. Edwards, Chievous, and Moore have done nothing of note. Yemi is so raw, but he hustles and does the dirty work, so maybe you can say you are getting what you should expect from him.

I just saw a much more cohesive and talented team from OM last night, than I did from Tennessee.

 

[UTVOLS107]

I'm fully aware that this can be attributed to Martin and his recruitment, but for everyone's sanity can we avoid that. I'm trying to come up with what the issues are, we've tried uptempo, we've tried slow. We've tried man, and tonight some zone. We've tried different lineups, and it just seems this isn't a 20 win or NCAA team.

So why???? Well, let's take a look at the "talent" on this team...

Jarnell Stokes 5*
Trae Golden 4*
Jordan McRae 4*
Kenny Hall 4*
Josh Richardson 3*
Yemi Makanjoula 2*/3*
Derek Reese 2*/3*
Armani Moore 2*/3*
Quinton Chievous 2*/3*
D'montre Edwards 2*/3*
Dwight Miller 2*/3*
Skylar Mcbee 2*
Brandon Lopez NR




So this team basically has 4 players, who were recruited by top 25 programs, yet that's what we want this team to be right, or close to it? Now Yemi and Josh may (or already have) prove that they are good enough to play in the SEC, but fact is we have 4 guys getting minutes who are talented basketball players, that are the caliber of player it takes to be top 25.

I was actually telling a friend of mine the same thing after the game.

He was saying that he thought it was all coaching and that we have talent on this team. I think he's right to an extent. There is some talent on this team, and I think it's fair to at least question Martin's coaching up to this point in the season. However it just seems to me that the biggest issue is we just aren't a very talented team. We've got a lot of good role players, but when you don't have your star in Maymon who drives this team.. It just is what it is.

IMO our talent level is about middle of the pack in the SEC. Which to be honest, is worse than it sounds considering how bad the SEC is this year.

 

[golfballs]

The problem is that Trae Golden is extremely streaky and we don't have a talented-enough backup to pick up the slack. When he is playing great, we are a good team. When he is slumping, we really struggle.

It's not difficult to draft up a gameplan against Tennessee. Load up the post and keep Stokes under wraps. That's it. We can't shoot worth a **** from outside.

Last night was clear that McRae needs to get even more looks. He's the only competent player we have on offense.

 

[johnnybravo]

Sorry BTO.
No cigar.
There's plenty of talent on this team.
What you have at this point is a young coach that's lost and his players sense it.
They've struggled all season and just been told to come out and do the same thing.
Example: the 3 pt shot for this team is just another turnover. 26 last night. I mean give me a break.
Martin can salvage an NIT run, but he has got to get his head on right.
Find a system that uses the strengths of his players.
It ain't slug ball and it ain't motion offense that his players don't understand.

Our offense seems to always spark after we go 2 - 12 at the 3 and finally figure out that we need to drive the ball. Same thing last night. Richardson, Golden, McRae start driving the ball, then we go to FT line. We didn't start that until the second half after of course we were down. I fault CCM for continue to let the players have free reign on offense and not controlling it. I also continue to fault him for sending Skylar to the scorers table. He killed us on D. Ole Miss continuously fed the ball to whoever he was guarding. I can't ever remember a player that logs as many minutes as him that is that bad. I would take Stephen Pearl, Jordan Howell, Ryan Childress, Dane Bradshaw in a minute over McBee. Horrible. Losing Hall and McBee next year will be an upgrade to the team.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Not so sure I agree about there being plenty of talent, though at this point, Martin shoulders some of the blame because he is responsible for 70% of the current roster. McRae and Richardson are the only two you could say have been performing to, or above their expected level of play. Golden is down. McBee is down. Stokes is starting to bring it with some consistency. Hall is down. Reese is still a question mark. Edwards, Chievous, and Moore have done nothing of note. Yemi is so raw, but he hustles and does the dirty work, so maybe you can say you are getting what you should expect from him.

I just saw a much more cohesive and talented team from OM last night, than I did from Tennessee.

Bingo

 

[Grude_Dude]

I'm fully aware that this can be attributed to Martin and his recruitment, but for everyone's sanity can we avoid that. I'm trying to come up with what the issues are, we've tried uptempo, we've tried slow. We've tried man, and tonight some zone. We've tried different lineups, and it just seems this isn't a 20 win or NCAA team.

So why???? Well, let's take a look at the "talent" on this team...

Jarnell Stokes 5*
Trae Golden 4*
Jordan McRae 4*
Kenny Hall 4*
Josh Richardson 3*
Yemi Makanjoula 2*/3*
Derek Reese 2*/3*
Armani Moore 2*/3*
Quinton Chievous 2*/3*
D'montre Edwards 2*/3*
Dwight Miller 2*/3*
Skylar Mcbee 2*
Brandon Lopez NR




So this team basically has 4 players, who were recruited by top 25 programs, yet that's what we want this team to be right, or close to it? Now Yemi and Josh may (or already have) prove that they are good enough to play in the SEC, but fact is we have 4 guys getting minutes who are talented basketball players, that are the caliber of player it takes to be top 25.

Coaching is a big problem too...This team continues to make the same dumb mistakes over and over again...hard to watch.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Coaching is a big problem too...This team continues to make the same dumb mistakes over and over again...hard to watch.

I agree CCM is definitely to blame as well.

 

[Voldemonium]

Our offense seems to always spark after we go 2 - 12 at the 3 and finally figure out that we need to drive the ball. Same thing last night. Richardson, Golden, McRae start driving the ball, then we go to FT line. We didn't start that until the second half after of course we were down. I fault CCM for continue to let the players have free reign on offense and not controlling it. I also continue to fault him for sending Skylar to the scorers table. He killed us on D. Ole Miss continuously fed the ball to whoever he was guarding. I can't ever remember a player that logs as many minutes as him that is that bad. I would take Stephen Pearl, Jordan Howell, Ryan Childress, Dane Bradshaw in a minute over McBee. Horrible. Losing Hall and McBee next year will be an upgrade to the team.

This ^

At this point I don't understand how McBee gets any minutes at all. I recall the announcers say something to the effect that McBee hasn't taken a 2pt shot in over a month? Seriously? Because he's just that good from long range? When this team shoots 3's its basically a turnover. An offense that drove to the basket every play, got fouled, and shot 40% from the FT line would be better than what Martin currently has this team doing. The sad thing is that McBee is just as much a liability on the defensive end. Not only can he not defend the dribble drive, he can't even stay with his man off the ball. I'd take Stephen Pearl & Dane Bradshaw (offensive limitations and all) over McBee in a heartbeat.

 

[UT IE 95]

You have to realize, Martin had nothing and not alot of time to get anything when he came in, he had to grab players and hope to develop them and maybe find some gems (Richardson) basketball isn't like football, if you aren't recruiting these guys in their soph. And jr. Years you have no hope. Let's watch what he brings in, it looks alright as of now. If you're expecting results right now sorry, its not gonna happen. I want to compete for Sec titles as much as the next guy but, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Here's my question on this topic. Martin was coaching and recruiting kids prior to coming to UT. He was getting players that fit his style and would get his team to the NCAA tourney.

I'm not buying this "grab players at the last minute" idea. He should have had kids that he was recruiting for style and character that would fit in great at UT. He didn't start over completely in recruiting - if so, we hired the wrong guy.

 

[UT IE 95]

Sorry BTO.
No cigar.
There's plenty of talent on this team.
What you have at this point is a young coach that's lost and his players sense it.
They've struggled all season and just been told to come out and do the same thing.
Example: the 3 pt shot for this team is just another turnover. 26 last night. I mean give me a break.
Martin can salvage an NIT run, but he has got to get his head on right.
Find a system that uses the strengths of his players.
It ain't slug ball and it ain't motion offense that his players don't understand.

Bingo. Posters on this board are using the same excuse Martin is using. The reason we aren't winning is the players aren't making enough baskets. At some point the players will just quit with a coach that keeps telling that story to the point the fan base starts repeating it.

And other coaches are sitting in kids houses saying, "Look jr., Martin over at UT is saying they lost because of the players and the fans are saying they lost because of no talent. Do you want to get into that hole?".

I've said it for the last year, Martin has no team identity. I jumped the gun and thought he had at least formed a defensive philosophy this year, but that has gone back into experimental mode as well.

 

[calban]

Here's my question on this topic. Martin was coaching and recruiting kids prior to coming to UT. He was getting players that fit his style and would get his team to the NCAA tourney.

I'm not buying this "grab players at the last minute" idea. He should have had kids that he was recruiting for style and character that would fit in great at UT. He didn't start over completely in recruiting - if so, we hired the wrong guy.

He did try to bring Rosburg who elected to stay in Missouri and ride the bench..

 

[lostsheep]

Regardless of talent level, 2 things good coaches generally can do with teams, IMO, is 1) Make sure they develop between seasons and improve, and 2) Make sure they are sound defensively. Any player or team should be able to achieve these 2 things, regardless of how many shots they can make.

The only player I see who looks better than last season is Richardson. Stokes has regressed or maybe wasn't as good as we all thought in the first place. Golden, McRae & McBee...are playing at the same level (or worse) than they did last season.

I thought CCM's coaching philosophy was all about 'defense?' If it is, then we are in trouble. Yes, some of our guys are out-talented, but our team defense as a whole is miserable right now. We're not handling ball screens well on the perimeter and our interior D is atrocius. This is only remedied through good scouting and knowing what to anticipate from the other team offensively and in teaching your players how to handle the situations...and apparently we're not doing either very well right now.

 

[ukvols]

It did get turned around last year into a 2nd place finish, but I would like to remind everyone that we were as much 4th last year as we were 2nd, as it was a three-team tie at 10-6. That might be just a tad off topic, but I have read "2nd place" a ton of times over the past several months. It was a great run down the stretch, but it's not like we went 14-2 and owned it by ourselves. We got the 2-seed off of the tiebreaker and then proceeded to lose our first SECT game.

 

[UT IE 95]

Regardless of talent level, 2 things good coaches generally can do with teams, IMO, is 1) Make sure they develop between seasons and improve, and 2) Make sure they are sound defensively. Any player or team should be able to achieve these 2 things, regardless of how many shots they can make.

The only player I see who looks better than last season is Richardson. Stokes has regressed or maybe wasn't as good as we all thought in the first place. Golden, McRae & McBee...are playing at the same level (or worse) than they did last season.

I thought CCM's coaching philosophy was all about 'defense?' If it is, then we are in trouble. Yes, some of our guys are out-talented, but our team defense as a whole is miserable right now. We're not handling ball screens well on the perimeter and our interior D is atrocius. This is only remedied through good scouting and knowing what to anticipate from the other team offensively and in teaching your players how to handle the situations...and apparently we are doing either very well right now.

The defense has also been a bit of a misleading strength. We slow games down against teams when we can and this causes a low scoring game. According to the stat last night, UT is 10th in the SEC in defensive efficiency. Not good when you are near the bottom of the league with your team strength.