Lady Vols new track coach - unbelievable

#26
#26
6 players on scholarship who participate in meets - can possibly perform at a level of securing points. Why would they not be participants for the Spring period before the notification.

an earlier quote states they could not eat athlete food or use the facilities. is this a cost saver for the program?

For those of you who are looking for ways to jusify stupidity and more management skills as well as lack of personal ethics I would not try to do it on this example.
 
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#28
#28
Examples like this is why the college system is unsustainable. Non-competes hold no water in most othere industries for a reason. It's ridiculous that UT could stop them from playing somewhere else.
 
#29
#29
Vols4life, did you even read the article? At least one of the young ladies involved had been recruited by Coach Alford-Sullivan when she was in the same position at Penn State. Dismissing her from the Lady Vols after recruiting her for Penn State without even allowing her to practice and without an explanation raises significant questions about motivation.

Also, most of the posters responding here don't deny that it is within the coach's power to make the decisions that she has. The manner in which she has gone about it, however, raises concerns, and, in my mind, questions about her thought process. As I understand the report, six student-athletes have been told that they would not be allowed to practice with the squad or to compete in competition. Their scholarships for this academic year, however, are being honored with the understanding that they will not be renewed next year. In what universe does it make sense to eliminate six athletes from your squad under circumstances where you cannot replace them? It seems to me that the better course of action would have been to call everyone in and put them on notice that this season will determine if scholarships will be renewed and, if anyone is uncomfortable with that, they can be given their release immediately. And, it would be better to do this under circumstances where the student-athlete could look for another program immediately without having to sit out. Just my opinion.

This matter was poorly handled and reflects poorly on the coach's management skills. I, like a number of other posters, think that the Tennessee track program (at least on the women's side) has suffered a major, self inflicted setback that will take considerable time to overcome.

Jim

Guys you'll have no idea just how on the inside college athletic departments work...It is a different style then you think....and as for no other student athletes will want to come and do track here?? That's a lie
 
#30
#30
She has every right to get rid of players if she wants too! Tennessee doesn't have 4 year scholarships they year to year basis! She was brought here to win obviously she felt those young ladies would not help the program win

this is absolute bull****.

from the NCAA themselves, you commit to a school, not a coach. That's the reason they give when having players sit out a year when transferring.

Why does a coach get to kick a player off scholarship without reason when the athletes commit to the school.

UT and the NCAA ****ed this up. hopefully people get fired over it so they can get a taste of it.
 
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#31
#31
Guys you'll have no idea just how on the inside college athletic departments work...It is a different style then you think....and as for no other student athletes will want to come and do track here?? That's a lie

i've worked in a D1 athletic department and know exactly how it works.

anyone who was involved in this situation is a piece of ****. there are plenty of ethical ways to handle creating roster space than what this coach did.
 
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#32
#32
It is hardly a "lie". It's called an opinion. As to knowledge of how "on the inside college athletic departments work", you are correct that I, personally, have no specific inside knowledge. Although, I do have some contacts on the "inside" of the Tennessee Athletics Department.

What I do know is management principles and ethics. Can you give me one good reason why Tennessee should provide a scholarship to a student-athlete in a sport such as track & field and not allow that student-athlete to participate in his or her sport? As another poster mentioned earlier, could they not possibly earn a point or two in a meet where every point counts? As I asked before, in what universe does this make sense?

Below is a partial quote from the KNS article;

The head of the Penn State track and field program had offered Morgan Harvey, one of the top hurdlers in the 2014-15 class, an 80-percent scholarship. She would have accepted, had she not received a full ride from Tennessee....Morgan Harvey was among the six women Alford-Sullivan cut from the UT track team last month.

at this point I have still not heard any response or discussion that in any way explains this particular dismissal. Absent some logical explanation, which, by the way, the Tennessee Athletic Department has failed/refused to provide, the most logical speculation is that the head coach is simply getting back at this young lady for turning her down at Penn State.

As for your apparent expectation/understanding that this kind of behavior is commonplace in athletic departments across the country, that may be true. However, this is not the kind of behavior for which I want the University I attended and graduated from to become known.

Jim
 
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#34
#34
The NJ story doesn't say what reason was given to Harvey for pulling her scholarship. I assume something more than 'you don't fit our plans' was offered. There are really only two explanations. One is that the track administrator decided that these women's times were not competitive enough to help the program--didn't see them as being substantial contributors in the years ahead--and so is giving their scholarships to other athletes. The only other explanation is that the track program has had its scholarship total reduced. Either way, it is a tough thing for any athlete to have their scholarship pulled.
 
#35
#35
How can UT do this to it's student-athletes and expect any of them to maintain any loyalty for the school? Why would a recruit worth a darn sign with UT after learning about this behavior? This could have been handled differently so it doesn't make the Athletic Department look like a bunch of idiots.
 
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#36
#36
You're spot on. There's a lot more that goes on in UT's women's programs that would make the fans pissed off. There is a lot of publicity to project a certain type of relationship or program to the public. And the media for the most part buys in. That doesn't mean players are happy, or fulfilled. and if that's not the case you won't win championships in any sport.

:hi:

i've worked in a D1 athletic department and know exactly how it works.

anyone who was involved in this situation is a piece of ****. there are plenty of ethical ways to handle creating roster space than what this coach did.
 
#37
#37
I assume something more than 'you don't fit our plans' was offered.

Actually that was exactly what was said and no further explanation was forthcoming when both the press and the parents pressed for one. No details of what the plans are and how the girls did not fit them.

Regardless this was an asinine thing to do. It doesn't free up any roster space so there is no upside for UT. Something is really fishy about this whole issue.

And it screws the girls over royally. They were induced to come here with the promise that we would provide them training and allow them to be part of the team for at least a year. Then when they get here we renege on the deal and tell them they can go to class but not participate as part of the team... thus eating up a year of eligibility. To my knowledge it is NEVER done this way for the simple fact that you don't have people rearrange their lives and move somewhere only for them to not even be given a chance to prove they are worth something to the team. Why recruit them in the first place? Why not rescind their scholarship offer beforehand when they can still salvage something and find a place to land? Why be so vindictive?

This is sheer and utter madness. This woman could write a textbook on how to ruin the reputation of the organization you work for. She created a controversy where none needed to exist and she gained NOTHING for UT by doing so. It would have cost her nothing to let the girls participate with the team this year and not renew their scholarships next year if they didn't perform well. That is how things are normally done.

And the worst thing about this is that UT can't even fire the ***** because of all of the lawsuits they currently face and the PR problems they already have. They can't be seen as letting another high ranking woman go no matter how idiotic she is and no matter how much she damages the program.

About the only way I see them firing her is if she kicked off Preston William's girlfriend and as a consequence he decided to commit elsewhere. You don't mess with football and he is a prize commit with a fiance' or girlfriend on the women's track team here.

All I know is if I were the AD and this happened on my watch you would have read about her firing before you even found out what she did and I would have apologized to the athletes and their families while assuring them I wouldn't shop at the idiot store for their new coach.
 
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#38
#38
this is absolute bull****.

from the NCAA themselves, you commit to a school, not a coach. That's the reason they give when having players sit out a year when transferring.

Why does a coach get to kick a player off scholarship without reason when the athletes commit to the school.

UT and the NCAA ****ed this up. hopefully people get fired over it so they can get a taste of it.

Ummmmm.....it happens every single spring on the baseball team....smaller sports u have very limited resources....that's why their are partial scholarships.....if u don't fit what the coach wants then u have to move on.
 
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#39
#39
volbeast33,

You are probably right that this happens every spring in baseball, both at Tennessee and many, if not every other, D-1 schools. But that is the point that you and so many others seem to be missing. This is not the spring after the season of competition has ended. This is before the season has even begun, and in a timeframe that makes it impossible for these young ladies to go anyplace else.

I can't say it any better than Voluble in the post immediately above yours. I suggest that you read that post.

Jim
 
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#40
#40
If she's good enough to get away with it. ....what's the problem?


Life isn't fair.
 
#41
#41
volbeast33,

You are probably right that this happens every spring in baseball, both at Tennessee and many, if not every other, D-1 schools. But that is the point that you and so many others seem to be missing. This is not the spring after the season of competition has ended. This is before the season has even begun, and in a timeframe that makes it impossible for these young ladies to go anyplace else.

I can't say it any better than Voluble in the post immediately above yours. I suggest that you read that post.

Jim

It's not impossible....the article about one of the players cut stated she had been contacted by numerous schools and has two official visits set up. It sticks but I would rather be cut than waste a yr at a school that doesn't want me.
 
#42
#42
Except that, because of the timing by the coach, each of these young ladies has, in fact, lost a year of eligibility, if my understanding is correct.

Jim
 
#43
#43
You're correct, she can do that. Butch Jones didn't do that actually. He's been careful to do the right thing even if it would be more expeditious to do the other. In reality the women's prgrams are harder to manage with limits on scholarships etc. But Serrano is in the same boat, but he does his best and coaches the kids up. An earlier post actually hit the nail on the head. Who would want to come to Tennesse now? And what parent would feel comfortable advising your daughter to come here?? My guess is not many.

Butch has done that several times.......remember the kid from NC refused to accept and the newspaper article that followed....He has cut several more that didn't whine about it in the papers.
 
#44
#44
Except that, because of the timing by the coach, each of these young ladies has, in fact, lost a year of eligibility, if my understanding is correct.

Jim

They don't lose a yr but will have to sit out if they transfer within the conference unless they get a waiver.......they should be able to compete immediately elsewhere.
 
#46
#46
New Tennessee track coach Beth Alford-Sullivan cut six women from her team in September, just a month after proudly announcing her predecessor's entire recruiting class would arrive intact.

this is what bothers me,it was just a bald face lie and there isn't much of a way that i see Hart stepping up to do anything,after all it is Hart
 
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#47
#47
Butch has done that several times.......remember the kid from NC refused to accept and the newspaper article that followed....He has cut several more that didn't whine about it in the papers.

He never let anyone enroll and then not let them be part of the team. That just isn't done.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Is it because it is so absurd and ridiculous that people can't wrap their heads around it?
 
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#48
#48
He never let anyone enroll and then not let them be part of the team. That just isn't done.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Is it because it is so absurd and ridiculous that people can't wrap their heads around it?

That and some people will defend anything that comes from the UTAD. The fact that their scholarships were not going to be renewed is an ugly, but normal aspect of college sports. Telling them they should come to UT and then disowning them after a couple of weeks without good reason is dishonest and unethical.

I am a high school track coach here in the state of Tennessee and can tell you that I will keep this type of thing in consideration if I have an athlete recruited by UT. There are plenty of places and coaches who can be demanding and difficult, but not treat you as a piece of meat and will be upfront and honest with you. Why shouldn't I send my athletes there?
 
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#49
#49
That and some people will defend anything that comes from the UTAD. The fact that their scholarships were not going to be renewed is an ugly, but normal aspect of college sports. Telling them they should come to UT and then disowning them after a couple of weeks without good reason is dishonest and unethical.

I am a high school track coach here in the state of Tennessee and can tell you that I will keep this type of thing in consideration if I have an athlete recruited by UT. There are plenty of places and coaches who can be demanding and difficult, but not treat you as a piece of meat and will be upfront and honest with you. Why shouldn't I send my athletes there?

Yeah, I guess the whole Vol For Life thing only applies if you don't plan on living through your first semester of college now.

I have thought about this and have only been able to come up with one scenario that makes sense.

Maybe she wanted these runners off the team all along. Maybe the AD made her honor the scholarships as we know was done with other coaches in other sports who were hired after a recruiting season. So she looked at that restriction and decided to run some of the athletes off by making conditions untenable for them once they got here.

The only way this would make sense is if she had some athletes in her pocket who she wanted to transfer in sometime during the current year from say Penn St. or from a Juco. All of this is supposition, but it is the only thing I can come up with that fits all of the facts.

If she didn't want the new recruits on the team then obviously she could have told them to find another school before they enrolled. That is normally what is done and is the most decent thing to do. Kids will be disappointed, but understand that coaching changes happen.

Something kept her from doing that. Logically it would have been the AD to put that restriction on. Now WHY would she want to get rid of these girls --- one of whom she just tried to recruit to PSU? The only thing that makes sense there is that she has better athletes lined up, or at least thinks she can get them. The only way that could happen would be if they could transfer in at midterm... and that could only happen if she runs off the ones already here. Otherwise she would could have all of these scholarships open next year and there would be no hurry to run anyone off before they even have a chance to prove themselves.

I don't know anything about the recruiting cycle of women's sports and am just going on the reaction and explanations I have seen so maybe someone else will have a better guess as to why she did this.

Regardless, she needs to get in front of a mic and explain just how this benefits UT. The fact that the whole AD has gone to radio silence makes me think that those higher up in the AD don't think it is defensible. It also implies that they weren't on board otherwise they would be telling everyone their side of the story instead of letting the coach twist in the wind.

Base on what I have heard I don't think these girls were in any type of trouble where the university would be doing them a solid by not going public. Certainly, if that was the case then the athletes would not have gone public in the manner they did. I believe them when they say the only explanation they got was the generic "going in another direction" one.
 
#50
#50
Correct..if Tennessee releases (this goes both for Wallkons and scholarships). They can participate in the upcoming season. If UT does not release they have to sit out a year no matter where they go, but retain that year of eligibility. If they transfer to the SEC they sit out. Those waivers are extremely rare, except for football...see Nic Marshall, and others.

They don't lose a yr but will have to sit out if they transfer within the conference unless they get a waiver.......they should be able to compete immediately elsewhere.
 

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