Lady Vols Soccer ⚽️ SEC TOURNAMENT 11/3-11/10

#1,951
#1,951
turbovol said:
It's a big honor to be given a spot on one of our National Team rosters--and can be good publicity for your school. Even so, we haven't had many such cases at all. Bunny Shaw played on the Jamaican National Team and missed a couple of games as a result, but nothing major. Same with Katie Cousins and Erin Gilroy: They were both starters on the US U20 National team (different years). I can't remember how much time they missed--but don't recall it being a major factor. (Gilroy = great player whose career was ruined by a second ACL tear. Could not run as well after the second.)

I agree that it took Pensky quite a while to get the program where it is--10 years, not 12. We had almost zero quality talent when he arrived. Hannah Wilkinson was here and by far our best player--but she was coming off of knee surgery and not at her best. (I don't know what Angela Kelly was doing her last 4/5 years--but it wasn't recruiting.) I think he could have done some things differently, or better, in the first 5 years, but it's fair to say that the program got incrementally better almost every year. I had two complaints with Pensky: the first is that he didn't put enough emphasis on recruiting good defenders in the first few years--clearly did not sign enough good ones, especially players who could play centerback (key position); and second, we didn't play very good soccer for a number of years. Our possession play for a few years was pretty bad--but as our talent improved, so did our possession soccer, so that was a factor for a while. His first five years, we couldn't play with Florida and Texas A&M, but now we've beaten each of those teams maybe the last four/five times we've played.

Pensky's best quality is his recruiting, IMO. He's lately been the best recruiter in the SEC. Bunny Shaw originally committed to Florida--but had to go to Junior College and when she got out, she signed with the Vols. Major coup. She was one of the two best players in the country as a senior (the other being Macario of Stanford). Landed Katie Cousins--considered No. 1 prospect nationally when she signed. Even so, as recently as two years ago we had a couple of starting centerbacks who weren't that good--so a good recruiter, better than most, but took a while to focus on defenders.
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I remember looking at FSU’s roster during the tournament, they seemed to have a boatload of international players. Not sure how recruiting works at the international level but the Seminoles attracted them or it was because of their coach. I also wonder if Pinsky’s style works as well with a defensive minded team which Florida State seems to be?
 
#1,952
#1,952
turbovol said:
That's a good question. My guess is that given the status of the FSU program and the big jump in pay he's getting, he did not ask for a counter-offer. And why would he expect one? He just got an extension--and presumably a raise--but I strongly suspect that whatever raise he received was rather modest. My bet is that he was not making even $300K annually and probably closer to $250K--maybe a bit more than that if you throw in the soccer camps, but I don't think they generate much money at all.

In contrast, Vitello, our baseball coach, was making $600K annually even when he'd accomplished nothing--nearly 3 times what Pensky and Swimming coach Matt Kredich were getting--and then, simply for getting us to the final 8 last year, got an extension and raise so that now he's making $1.5 MILLION annually. And while baseball pulls in more money from fans than soccer, it's still a nominal amount of money and baseball remains a non-revenue sport, essentially. I'm happy for Vitello, don't get me wrong, and pleased to see our baseball program doing so well. Even so, why would we--or any school--pay one successful non-revenue coach so much more than other successful non-revenue coaches? I think it's unfair--and if you do it you surely run the risk losing your best coaches. Some athletic directors are focused only on revenues and don't seem to care that much about non-revenue sports because they don't generate big money--see FSU. Even UCLA, which has a much more prominent soccer tradition than we do, apparently refuses to pay a salary high enough to attract the best soccer coaching candidates. But who likes having bad or mediocre programs, in any sport? And beyond that, winning programs generate a lot of positive PR for a university, whether or not they are a "revenue" sport.
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it's a lot easier to recruit to a program that gives full scholarships (women's soccer) than to a program that doesn't (men's baseball). Maybe one reason why Vitello gets paid more.
 
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#1,953
#1,953
youcancallmeAl said:
it's a lot easier to recruit to a program that gives full scholarships (women's soccer) than to a program that doesn't (men's baseball). Maybe one reason why Vitello gets paid more.
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Unless things have changed in the last year, soccer (men's and women's) is an equivalency sport where partial scholarships can be given.

Jim
 
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#1,955
#1,955
I think if I had to pick one coach for Danny White to pursue for the job, all things considered, it would be Erwin van Bennekom, the head man at Indiana. He's 35, Dutch and just completed his 3rd year at IU. He's steadily improved what was, I think, a weak program before his arrival. Prior to getting the IU job, he spent 4 years as Robbie Church's top assistant at Duke. Duke made two appearances in the College Cup in those 4 years. Church speaks very highly of him--see below article. He's also been a women's pro coach, and was for one year was an assistant at Alabama, so he has some familiarity with the SEC. Seems to have an excellent tactical mind; has been in the midwest for a few years now, where there are a lot of good prospects (and where Pensky got a lot of players); surely hungry for success--and smart enough to achieve it, I'd bet. Get him to Knoxville, show him the facilities and the team and make him a good offer....

The intelligence and vision of Erwin van Bennekom - The Hoosier Network


Less realistically, we could send out feelers to Jennifer Rockwood, longtime coach at BYU, and Jim Nolan of Georgetown. Two excellent coaches. Just about every program in the country would love to have Rockwood, as BYU is a perennial power, plays a very appealing brand of soccer and was national runnerup last year. (I saw BYU beat a very good UVA team.) She's probably be an impossible pull--has been at BYU for 20+ years and might not be a good fit for Knoxville/SEC, but one never knows. Might also be a Mormon--perhaps probable--and so wouldn't want to leave. I also think most of her players are from Utah and the west, so would have to reorient her recruiting. Major long shot, but never hurts to ask.

Nolan is a veteran coaching talent----16 years at Georgetown. Team plays very good soccer and is in NCAA Tourney almost ever year--beaten by good Santa Clara team last year. Recruits at a high level but perhaps not as high as Pensky--maybe because of the academic rigors of Georgetown--but it's also true that Georgetown's excellent academic reputation probably helps attract some top prospects, in much the same way that it works at Stanford and Vandy, so it cuts both ways. Not sure how that would translate at UT--does he has the personality to be a great recruiter? There are no questions about his coaching chops. Another tough pull probably. Both of these coaches seem like they could stay at their respective schools until they retire--but you don't know until you ask.


Pensky is going to be under a lot of pressure at FSU. Everyone knows they could win another title with the returning talent. Pensky has the right personality for the job, IMO--but will personality be enough? I don't know: It's like he's just donned his wingsuit and is preparing to leap off a mountaintop---either to have a brilliant soaring experience....or, well...we know what happens to wingsuit flyers when things go awry.....
 
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#1,958
#1,958
Vols4life said:
Some names I see if they're interested in the Tennessee job are Nate Lie at Xavier and Todd Shulenberger at Washington State

Nate Lie - Women's Soccer Coach - Xavier University Athletics

Todd Shulenberger - Soccer Coach - Washington State University Athletics
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Two good coaches. Washington State was in the soccer Final Four two/three years ago--excellent team. And we beat Washington State in the second round of NCAA last year. White is on the spot with this as fall training is 3 months away, not to mention that any extended delay in naming a new coach will create even more uncertainty among current players and freshmen class coming in soon. The FSU AD was on the spot, now it's our bad luck and White is tasked with making a strong outside hire--and fairly quickly--or perhaps going interim route with an assistant for 1 season.
 
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#1,959
#1,959
turbovol said:
I think if I had to pick one coach for Danny White to pursue for the job, all things considered, it would be Erwin van Bennekom, the head man at Indiana. He's 35, Dutch and just completed his 3rd year at IU. He's steadily improved what was, I think, a weak program before his arrival. Prior to getting the IU job, he spent 4 years as Robbie Church's top assistant at Duke. Duke made two appearances in the College Cup in those 4 years. Church speaks very highly of him--see below article. He's also been a women's pro coach, and was for one year was an assistant at Alabama, so he has some familiarity with the SEC. Seems to have an excellent tactical mind; has been in the midwest for a few years now, where there are a lot of good prospects (and where Pensky got a lot of players); surely hungry for success--and smart enough to achieve it, I'd bet. Get him to Knoxville, show him the facilities and the team and make him a good offer....

The intelligence and vision of Erwin van Bennekom - The Hoosier Network


Less realistically, we could send out feelers to Jennifer Rockwood, longtime coach at BYU, and Jim Nolan of Georgetown. Two excellent coaches. Just about every program in the country would love to have Rockwood, as BYU is a perennial power, plays a very appealing brand of soccer and was national runnerup last year. (I saw BYU beat a very good UVA team.) She's probably be an impossible pull--has been at BYU for 20+ years and might not be a good fit for Knoxville/SEC, but one never knows. Might also be a Mormon--perhaps probable--and so wouldn't want to leave. I also think most of her players are from Utah and the west, so would have to reorient her recruiting. Major long shot, but never hurts to ask.

Nolan is a veteran coaching talent----16 years at Georgetown. Team plays very good soccer and is in NCAA Tourney almost ever year--beaten by good Santa Clara team last year. Recruits at a high level but perhaps not as high as Pensky--maybe because of the academic rigors of Georgetown--but it's also true that Georgetown's excellent academic reputation probably helps attract some top prospects, in much the same way that it works at Stanford and Vandy, so it cuts both ways. Not sure how that would translate at UT--does he has the personality to be a great recruiter? There are no questions about his coaching chops. Another tough pull probably. Both of these coaches seem like they could stay at their respective schools until they retire--but you don't know until you ask.


Pensky is going to be under a lot of pressure at FSU. Everyone knows they could win another title with the returning talent. Pensky has the right personality for the job, IMO--but will personality be enough? I don't know: It's like he's just donned his wingsuit and is preparing to leap off a mountaintop---either to have a brilliant soaring experience....or, well...we know what happens to wingsuit flyers when things go awry.....
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Lived in the Netherlands for three years. Obviously a small country but wonderful Soccer. If AD White needs help I could brush up on my Dutch.
 
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#1,960
#1,960
mad4vols said:
Exactly, it kind of feels like there wasn’t much of an effort on UT’s part.
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mad, don't let your disappointment drive you to this conclusion. Based on media reports, it appears that he was already at or near the top of the salary market before his recent raise. Also, there has been no indication that UT was ever provided an opportunity to respond to an offer from FSU.

I liked Pensky alot; however, turbo makes multiple good points on his somewhat slow development of the UT program, particularly in the areas of defense and style of play. Maybe he'll become the next Anson Dorrance or Mark Kirkorian, but FSU is taking a significant risk jumping him to the top of the college sport and he is taking a significant risk in choosing to follow a legend rather than to complete the job of building his own legacy at a school that was showing him significant support. I wish him well, but he is now nothing more than the opposition to me. UT, if it can keep the current ladies together, will continue to grow with the right hire. I trust DW to step up.
 
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#1,964
#1,964
Lurker said:
mad, don't let your disappointment drive you to this conclusion. Based on media reports, it appears that he was already at or near the top of the salary market before his recent raise. Also, there has been no indication that UT was ever provided an opportunity to respond to an offer from FSU.

I liked Pensky alot; however, turbo makes multiple good points on his somewhat slow development of the UT program, particularly in the areas of defense and style of play. Maybe he'll become the next Anson Dorrance or Mark Kirkorian, but FSU is taking a significant risk jumping him to the top of the college sport and he is taking a significant risk in choosing to follow a legend rather than to complete the job of building his own legacy at a school that was showing him significant support. I wish him well, but he is now nothing more than the opposition to me. UT, if it can keep the current ladies together, will continue to grow with the right hire. I trust DW to step up.
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Thanks for talking me off the ledge, I appreciate it.
 
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#1,967
#1,967
Yes, hiring a great new coach is my #1 concern, but because I trust White to get that done, I'm more concerned about Pensky taking the best of the Lady Vols with him. Fingers crossed we have no defectors!
 
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#1,968
#1,968
lvocd said:
Yes, hiring a great new coach is my #1 concern, but because I trust White to get that done, I'm more concerned about Pensky taking the best of the Lady Vols with him. Fingers crossed we have no defectors!
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There will almost certainly be defections to FSU.
 
#1,969
#1,969
SGMVols said:
There will almost certainly be defections to FSU.
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#1,971
#1,971
Whoever we hire HAS to be an excellent recruiter. Pensky was the best recruiter in the SEC---it's why we now have the talent we have. A good soccer
coach who is only a mediocre recruiter will not cut it. So we need somebody dynamic and ambitious.
 
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#1,972
#1,972
turbovol said:
Whoever we hire HAS to be an excellent recruiter. Pensky was the best recruiter in the SEC---it's why we now have the talent we have. A good soccer
coach who is only a mediocre recruiter will not cut it. So we need somebody dynamic and ambitious.
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Are you surprised that there hasn’t been any statements from the University about Pensky leaving?
 
#1,973
#1,973
Yes, I'm a bit surprised that White hasn't at least said something generic about the university being sorry that Pensky has left but that "we've started a national search to replace him and hope to have good news on that front soon"....or somesuch. Sometimes, when a coach leaves suddenly as Pensky did, after just getting an extension and a raise, the AD is not happy and there is no statement. An AD will always politely thank a coach he or she has sacked, and wish them well, but in our case, I can understand him not saying much---though it would be good to get even a brief statement out of him about the search.

Meanwhile, I went to a soccer board with a collegiate coaching/hot seat thread a little while ago and saw this post:
​
"Whoa. I heard there is a coach in the Tallahassee area that might be interested. "​

I thought, can it be that Krikorian might be interested in the Vol job? Seemed too good to be true--and apparently it is. Damn! The comment was the first on a new page, and when I went to the last post on the previous page, I saw that it was in reference to another SEC soccer job opening. What? Yep: Florida has just fired Tony Amato, its soccer coach, after one season! (He'd beeb hired away from the University of Arizona.) That is almost unheard of unless there are some personal/behavioral issues with the coach--and apparently there was. "We have worked diligently with Tony since last fall when I first became aware of challenges with relationship building and communication." said AD Scott Stricklin today. That's all I've seen about the reasons for his firing. Don't know what the specific issues were with Amato, but he's out. It's also worth pointing out that Florida last year had the worst season in the soccer program's history.

Also, Florida recent fired its women's soccer coach after there were player complaints of abuse.

So the comment above might mean that Krikorian is interested in the Florida job. I sure hope not--Tennessee would be a better job than Florida right now (better facilities, better team)--but Krikorian has a bug up his butt about the FSU athletic director--and maybe he'd want to take the job at FSU's big instate rival just to stick it to the guy. That wouldn't be a good reason to take a new job, but we'll see. Florida's problems have been good for everybody else in SEC soccer, so we sure wouldn't want Krikorian in Gainesville. I hope White has at least put out feelers to the agents for Krikorian and maybe Amanda Cromwell, too--former UCLA coach who's now coaching the Orlando Pride of the NWSL. Orlando has been the worst team in the NWSL for a few years, and it's possible Cromwell isn't too happy with the job. Another major long shot, to be sure--and, truthfully, after living in LA for years, I rather doubt that the deep South scene would appeal to her.

Finally, the Houston Dash of the NWSL may need a new coach soon, as it has suspended its head man after an investigation into complaints about harassment, etc. I think maybe 5 male coaches in the NWSL has been sacked in the last two years for current or past behavioral issues of some kind. It's crazy. Maybe Krikorian would be interested in the Dash job--if the guy gets sacked. I'm not convinced that NWSL head jobs are all that good. Some are certainly better than others--and I wouldn't rank the Houston job highly, if only because the season (which is starting soon) runs through the summer and so the Dash play all their home matches in seriously hot/humid temperatures.
 
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