Last night's problem was not coaching

#26
#26
Some of my observations and summaries:

We had 13 turnovers for the first 40 minutes. (Not too bad). Evina had three for the first 40 minutes. (Not so bad). However, she had two in the overtime that were killers, and the three total turnover in overtime were a big reason we lost?

Mental mistakes like fouling a three point shooter is a NO NO..... especially since they had missed so many shots late in game and they were OBVIOUSLY TIRED!!!! Every point guard is taught to NEVER pick up your dribble until you are ready to shoot or pass!

If we ever play this team again???? Hopefully someone will realize Carter cannot be guarded by one person ..... and help defense must be expressed to Everyone! Anyone in their right mind would not give Annie the task to guard Carter all by herself???

In the first four minutes of the game we let Hillsman have four offensive put backs with no one blocking her off the boards! (Just silly to give up that many easy points??) JMO

PS: They beat us at our own game! They penetrated and we did not..... They shot 26 foul shots and we shot 11! This way of playing has won 15 games but they turned the table on us and we lost! Just Saying
 
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#27
#27
Given how atrocious Texas A&M's execution was for much of the 3rd and 4th quarters, I don't think there is any evidence to say that Blair won this game through his coaching acumen. The LVs had multiple changes late in the 4th quarter to put the game away.

You can point to the refs not calling fouls at crucial but also freshman mistakes. Davis came on in the the 4th and made three very nice offensive plays that got the LVs level with A&M (Yeah!). But then she kept trying to make plays under duress and that led to bad shots and turnovers on three straight occasions.

And it wasn't just Davis. Nared and Meme missed wide open shots down the stretch and each had unforced TOs and so on.

In the SEC, some road losses will happen. 16-1 is a record that I would guess is still ahead of most expectations. The key is will they how they respond this Sunday.
 
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#28
#28
NoBackBoard said:
The turnovers have been a nagging issue and are part of the board’s frustration. We see nagging issues that don’t seem to be corrected, which is troubling. We like our players but oftentimes the team product is less than what we would expect based on the talent level of each player. I’m sick of the same old excuses but I don’t call for Holly’s job anymore because it’s like beating a dead horse.

It’s tough for fans who have followed the team for a while because we expect attention to detail and that hasn’t been here since Pat was here. She made the best in-game adjustments and halftime tweaks that we don’t see enough of. It’s frustrating for everyone but hopefully the ladies learn from their mistakes.

I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it until I see different: our teams lack discipline and don’t value every possession.

UT could never beat Notre Dame by 33 points, or any top 10 team for that matter. Not because we don’t have the talent, but because we take plays off, lose focus, get sloppy, etc.

Teams take on the demeanor of their head coach. Hopefully we can get it figured out by Sunday, or at least show signs of improvement.
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Amen to that, Backboard! Let's Go Ladies!
 
#29
#29
Amb3096 said:
Unfortunately, that's true. I'm a big fan of Evina, but she's sloppy with her passing. Less showtime, more fundamentals needed. She's as likely to make a breathtaking pass as much as one that's so far off it's mind boggling. Somewhat Diamond-esque, even.

She needs to reign in the highlight reel passes and improve her bball IQ.
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Amen to that, Amb. Let's Go Ladies!
 
#31
#31
Benionsopinion said:
The problem in last night's loss was not coaching,but execution. When three starters on any team shoot 10 for 36 from the field and three starters on the opponents score more than 20 points each the die is cast. The game was closer than it should have been with those facts in evidence. The caterwauling about coaching has reached a crescendo,but there have been few posts about the poor execution on the part of the team. All the better coaches than Holly need to explain how a team overcomes a below par shooting night by three starters. Coaches teach and players execute. Mistakes are made in each area,but the glaring mistake last night was in execution. Does anyone think that coaches teach players to miss shots,throw bad passes,fail to block out on rebounds or not go after a rebound,to foul a 3 point shooter or any of the myriad problems that showed up last night? According to a lot of posters,the coach should be held accountable for all things. If players have a bad shooting night,or don't rebound,or make turnovers,it's on the coach. One might say replace the players,but that was tried with little or no effect. So the Lady Vols lost a winnable game by failure to execute. All teams go through this. Our Lady Vols have had ONE undefeated season in their history and have won a national title with TEN losses. To reiterate-- coaches teach and players execute. Lady Vols are 15-1. Let's play tough at South Carolina. Just a thought,has the flu bug hit the team?
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This is a case of over reaction, which is normal when a team has had a recent history of falling short of fan expectations. There is a certain group, which included me, that, even though we started out 16 and 0, are just waiting for the hammer to fall. I am trying a new approach this year, and that is not waiting for a failure so I can jump on Holly.

One loss is not time to jump ship, or to become Chicken Little and declare the sky is falling. We can’t forget that A&M almost best South Carolina. A&M also has a very good coach. I do not think we have seen enough this year to determine the direction this team is headed in. We also need to be real, this team was not going undefeated for the entire year and they play in one of the toughest conferences in the country. Also support the team and see what happens.

To you dyed in the wool Holly supporters don’t try to fine blame with the players and ignore coaching mistakes and errors.
 
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#34
#34
A lot of you are mentioning Tennessee having a hard time keeping people from driving down the lane. I think what is being lost here on some of you in regards to reach and touch fouls is that defense doesn't start after your player gets the ball. It should start before. Great defensive teams make it hard to even get the ball in the first place, let alone get it and drive down the lane. Right now this team allows their offense and how well that is going to determine how hard they play defense.

You want them uncomfortable and thinking before they even touch the ball. Letting them set up and take their time to get where they need to be and then they just execute... well yeah they are going to get where they are trying to go (the rim) they have preserved their energy the entire possession because there was little resistance to what they were trying to do before they put that burst of speed on you.

Tennessee plays good spirited defense in spurts when they are hyped from getting out in transiton or their baskets are falling. If not they start standing still. At the end of the day if Russell is on the floor you HAVE to use her because otherwise she is just taking up space. Tennessee doesn't set a lot of screens and Russell generally does not play at an angle she prefers to shoot from the center of the lane so if she is in you have to run the offense through her for it to be efficient because no guard is going to be able to drive all the way to the rim in a half court set w Russell's defender standing right next to her in the lane.

Now the staff can say see what we have been telling you. Sometimes when you dont do it you win but sometimes you lose. It's about getting better and ready for the tourney. Not all wins are good wins and not all losses are bad ones. Just get back to work. Just looks like they are missing the minor details on some things and w freshman starting thats to be expected.
 
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#35
#35
feathersax said:
NOT coaching? How blind! Just more of the same from Holly, who has been in over her head since day #1. L:unsure:
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Whoa, it must have been hard having to wait until game 17 of the season before you could fire away with that zinger!
 
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#36
#36
PRG said:
Some of my observations and summaries:

We had 13 turnovers for the first 40 minutes. (Not too bad). Evina had three for the first 40 minutes. (Not so bad). However, she had two in the overtime that were killers, and the three total turnover in overtime were a big reason we lost?

Mental mistakes like fouling a three point shooter is a NO NO..... especially since they had missed so many shots late in game and they were OBVIOUSLY TIRED!!!! Every point guard is taught to NEVER pick up your dribble until you are ready to shoot or pass!

If we ever play this team again???? Hopefully someone will realize Carter cannot be guarded by one person ..... and help defense must be expressed to Everyone! Anyone in their right mind would not give Annie the task to guard Carter all by herself???

In the first four minutes of the game we let Hillsman have four offensive put backs with no one blocking her off the boards! (Just silly to give up that many easy points??) JMO

PS: They beat us at our own game! They penetrated and we did not..... They shot 26 foul shots and we shot 11! This way of playing has won 15 games but they turned the table on us and we lost! Just Saying
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Good points. Those uncontested put backs from Hillsman
were painful to watch. After the first one or two, someone needed to make boxing out job one!

Despite all those failings. In the last four minutes with the game tied, the LVs had about 6 consecutive trips where A&M did not score but the LVs always came up empty themselves. It is true that the A&M could have also put the game way with some conversions but I think on the whole, the LVs had more open looks but could not hit a clutch shot (which they had been doing).

TV Commentator Gail G. had a good observation in noting that the LVs (particularly the freshman) were confusing playing at a faster tempo with rushing and forcing up poor shots and passes. So, there is potential for some positive learning to come from this loss.
 
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#37
#37
A few posters talked about Hillman having her way and no one blocking her out, that job is basically Russell’s job. She is not that strong against aggressive post. She has some good foot work on offense, but she seems to have some lack luster moments on defense. I still notice her standing around while other Lady Vols are hitting the boards. She seems to play well against foreigner post in world all star games, I just wonder why that does not seem to always be the case when playing for the LVs.
 
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#38
#38
teacherdean said:
A few posters talked about Hillman having her way and no one blocking her out, that job is basically Russell’s job. She is not that strong against aggressive post. She has some good foot work on offense, but she seems to have some lack luster moments on defense. I still notice her standing around while other Lady Vols are hitting the boards. She seems to play well against foreigner post in world all star games, I just wonder why that does not seem to always be the case when playing for the LVs.
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Right at the start of the game Hillman got 5 put backs, Russell pick up the girl coming to the basket and made her miss the shot is why Russell was not guarding Hillman. I saw Evina Westbrook try to pick her up but she pushed her away and got another put back.
 
#39
#39
I would have had KK on the court to push Hillsman out of the way, at least till KK fouled out. Make her really work for those rebound baskets. I was surprised how much Green was pushed around. Thought she was stronger.
 
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#40
#40
15-0 playing a soft schedule does not mean all of those wins were good wins. To those fans who hope a LV team can make it to a FF for the first time in what seems like forever the pointing up of the teams and more importantly coaching shortcomings is the discussion of reality and not negativity. There will be no FF this season either unless major improvements are made. They have to come from coaching.

Drawing up a 3pt heave from 35+ feet with 2 sec left in regulation by a player who has so far scored zero points in the game does not mean the coach is good and execution was bad.

Poor execution? TAMU scoring 1 point from 6:00+ to end the 4th quarter. TAMU begged the LV's to run an offense and win the game. No cigar!
 
#41
#41
PointGuard said:
15-0 playing a soft schedule does not mean all of those wins were good wins. To those fans who hope a LV team can make it to a FF for the first time in what seems like forever the pointing up of the teams and more importantly coaching shortcomings is the discussion of reality and not negativity. There will be no FF this season either unless major improvements are made. They have to come from coaching.

Drawing up a 3pt heave from 35+ feet with 2 sec left in regulation by a player who has so far scored zero points in the game does not mean the coach is good and execution was bad.

Poor execution? TAMU scoring 1 point from 6:00+ to end the 4th quarter. TAMU begged the LV's to run an offense and win the game. No cigar!
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The 3pt play by Meme was obviously not the play made during the timeout. Russell and Green posted downlow but the pass wasn’t there.
 
#42
#42
I could certainly be wrong, but I am of the opinion that lack of execution often IS a coaching issue.

When players begin to look lost, confused and overwhelmed when their backs are against the wall, then it signals to me that they likely have not had enough repetitions of end-game scenarios in practice -- a coaching issue.

The players were tight and didn't execute when they needed to most because it appeared to my eyes that they weren't sure WHAT they were supposed to be executing other than vague commands to "get it inside to Mercedes."

BUT HOW, specifically, if everything you've tried has been stopped? This is where I feel the breakdown happens. There's no special designed plays that are drawn up during time-outs to get players open shots. There's just confusion and panic-paralysis.

This is because they have not practiced enough options over and over and over again in practice until they become second nature. This is a coaching issue.

Lack of execution in the manner that all of Holly's teams eventually reveal against better competition and coaching is painfully obviously because they are unsure what to do different in various situations. There's no in-game roll-outs of well-practiced-with-hundreds-of-repetitions special plays to spring on opponents to get a much-needed basket. Just a vague "get it inside to Mercedes."

General statements aren't helping. Teach the players some special plays that they can use in emergency situations -- some plays that will give their confidence a boost!

If they are forced to keep trying the same things over and over despite it not working, that's when they start looking lost and that's when their confidence goes out the window. This is EXACTLY the way Tennessee has lost its last game of every season for many years.

As for Westbrook, good grief... she's a freshman! And ya know, I have seen FAR more contact than she made go uncalled. Just a smart play by the more experienced shooter.

That said, the young Westbrook would naturally be shaken after that play and the resulting free throws, so I questioned why she was put anywhere near the ball on the last play. I feel STRONGLY that Holly made a huge coaching error in putting a shaken and nervous Westbrook in that position.

There SHOULD HAVE BEEN a special play we could haved rolled out -- one that had been practiced so many times that everyone could have executed in their sleep -- but I seriously doubt that last play was one.

Evina Westbrook is a star in the making, and I sure hope this doesn't wreck her confidence.
 
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#43
#43
I thought Holly had a good game plan especially on defense they were trapping Carter many times in the game and certainly defending her drives most of the time. Offensively I wish she would have called a timeout and maybe she did and inform the players to drive the ball and quit taking threes.
The execution on offense was certainly off because our shots were not going in. Still we played defense well enough to win holding them to 37 percent shooting to our 42 percent.
The loss came because they got to the line 26 times to our 11 because we weren't forcing them to stop the drive with fouls. Maybe the Refs weren't going to call them but you have to make the effort to get to the basket and if the defense collapses on you hit the open player with a pass.
The freshmen will learn. I am hoping they will be a lot smarter players by tourney time. I think we can go along way if they progress as the season advances.
 
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#44
#44
The announcers mentioned that Holly had told the team to stop taking the 3's during a timeout and that was when Dunbar swished that long shot. Ergo, she was pulled from the game and never played again.. Could sure have used her when nobody was scoring late in the 4th Quarter.
 
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#45
#45
lvocd said:
I could certainly be wrong, but I am of the opinion that lack of execution often IS a coaching issue.

When players begin to look lost, confused and overwhelmed when their backs are against the wall, then it signals to me that they likely have not had enough repetitions of end-game scenarios in practice -- a coaching issue.

The players were tight and didn't execute when they needed to most because it appeared to my eyes that they weren't sure WHAT they were supposed to be executing other than vague commands to "get it inside to Mercedes."

BUT HOW, specifically, if everything you've tried has been stopped? This is where I feel the breakdown happens. There's no special designed plays that are drawn up during time-outs to get players open shots. There's just confusion and panic-paralysis.

This is because they have not practiced enough options over and over and over again in practice until they become second nature. This is a coaching issue.

Lack of execution in the manner that all of Holly's teams eventually reveal against better competition and coaching is painfully obviously because they are unsure what to do different in various situations. There's no in-game roll-outs of well-practiced-with-hundreds-of-repetitions special plays to spring on opponents to get a much-needed basket. Just a vague "get it inside to Mercedes."

General statements aren't helping. Teach the players some special plays that they can use in emergency situations -- some plays that will give their confidence a boost!

If they are forced to keep trying the same things over and over despite it not working, that's when they start looking lost and that's when their confidence goes out the window. This is EXACTLY the way Tennessee has lost its last game of every season for many years.

As for Westbrook, good grief... she's a freshman! And ya know, I have seen FAR more contact than she made go uncalled. Just a smart play by the more experienced shooter.

That said, the young Westbrook would naturally be shaken after that play and the resulting free throws, so I questioned why she was put anywhere near the ball on the last play. I feel STRONGLY that Holly made a huge coaching error in putting a shaken and nervous Westbrook in that position.

There SHOULD HAVE BEEN a special play we could haved rolled out -- one that had been practiced so many times that everyone could have executed in their sleep -- but I seriously doubt that last play was one.

Evina Westbrook is a star in the making, and I sure hope this doesn't wreck her confidence.
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It was Meme that made the crucial mistake in fouling a 3 pt shooter with only a few seconds on the clock. Chennedy Carter was 9-31 and 0-5 from the three and 5 TOs, did make a crushing, confidence destroying mistake by leaving her in? Or was he a genius for letting his promising freshman play through adversity and experience where Holly can't coach for doing the same?
 
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#46
#46
madtownvol said:
It was Meme that made the crucial mistake in fouling a 3 pt shooter with only a few seconds on the clock. Chennedy Carter was 9-31 and 0-5 from the three and 5 TOs, did make a crushing, confidence destroying mistake by leaving her in? Or was he a genius for letting his promising freshman play through adversity and experience where Holly can't coach for doing the same?
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Check the tape again. Evina fouled Danni Williams on that 3 pt shot. MeMe guarded Williams when she made the bucket to tie the game a minute earlier.

If Gary Blair had any players besides his starters, no doubt he would have pulled Carter. She was gassed and was throwing stuff up practically begging for a foul.
 
#48
#48
madtownvol said:
It was Meme that made the crucial mistake in fouling a 3 pt shooter with only a few seconds on the clock. Chennedy Carter was 9-31 and 0-5 from the three and 5 TOs, did make a crushing, confidence destroying mistake by leaving her in? Or was he a genius for letting his promising freshman play through adversity and experience where Holly can't coach for doing the same?
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Those are not even remotely comparable coaching decisions. Carter didn't have the fresh thought, "Oh no!!! I may have just lost the game for us!!! OH MY GOD OH MY GOD!!! Why did I do that???!!!" running through her head over and over again leading up to the very last play of the game. Westbrook was probably still punishing herself for the previous play. It's human nature.

NOT to suggest that Westbrook's foul lost the game. Of course it didn't! But a young player might FEEL like she did in that moment, and in that context the decision to let Carter shoot through her slump and putting the ball in Westbrook's hands while she's likely still mentally in the previous play, are WAY different coaching decisions.
 
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#49
#49
I don't think the mistake was the foul that girl can hit that shot. The mistake was not fouling before she got in position to take the shot. We had two fouls to give and should have used them.
 
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#50
#50
Holding the coaching accountable for everything that happens in a game is simple-minded. Most people who subscribe to that belief have never been in a significant position of authority or tasked with coaching or influencing people. People have self determination and will do what they want to do. Coaches can influence but not decide for individuals.

The loss can be attributed to several different causes many of which have already been discussed or pointed out in this forum. Could the game have been better coached or played...yes. What happened is not going to change no matter whose character is assassinated. What is important is whether they learn and grow from the experience. Losses can be helpful if they are used to improve. I suspect the team will go into the next game with something to prove and with a chip on their shoulder.
 
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