Last night's problem was not coaching

[Orange Maniac]

The announcers mentioned that Holly had told the team to stop taking the 3's during a timeout and that was when Dunbar swished that long shot. Ergo, she was pulled from the game and never played again.. Could sure have used her when nobody was scoring late in the 4th Quarter.

That wasn't why she was pulled from the game. She stood and watched the player she was guarding get a wide open three, and then let that player get around her for the rebound. That is why she was pulled.

 

[madtownvol]

westbrook made that foul, not meme.

I stand corrected. Memory ain't what it used to be.

 

[gule]

Her 3 pt shot was after her lapse on D, She didn't even have time on the court to break a sweat before Holly freaked out.

 

[lvocd]

Holding the coaching accountable for everything that happens in a game is simple-minded. Most people who subscribe to that belief have never been in a significant position of authority or tasked with coaching or influencing people. People have self determination and will do what they want to do. Coaches can influence but not decide for individuals.

I am not suggesting that coaching is responsible for everything that happens in a game, as that WOULD be simple-minded.

However, if every team that's made up of one after another top recruiting classes for many consecutive years begins to falter in IDENTICAL ways at year after year, then that obviously does seem to indicate that the program's level of teaching has stalled out at the same point. The level of necessary expertise to overcome identical failures is not being adequately taught.

How else can anyone explain how all the excellent talent that has come through Knoxville over recent years seem always to get confused and lost in exactly the same manner? They hit a brick wall and become panicked and paralyzed.

It simply can't merely be coincidence or bad luck or players stubbornly choosing not to listen to the coaches during the games EVERY SINGLE SEASON, can it??? Holly would have to be the most unlucky coach on the planet if it were true that every single one of her players are well prepared to beat any team, but that every single one of those players simply refuse to run the plays right against good coaching, wouldn't she?

No, IMO it's just that they reach the limit of knowledge and skills necessary to get over the hump. The fact that every talented Lady Vol class and every combination of Lady Vol players react (or don't react) similarly in situations like we saw Thursday night can't just be coincidence.

 

[madtownvol]

I am not suggesting that coaching is responsible for everything that happens in a game, as that WOULD be simple-minded.

However, if every team that's made up of one after another top recruiting classes for many consecutive years begins to falter in IDENTICAL ways at year after year, then that obviously does seem to indicate that the program's level of teaching has stalled out at the same point. The level of necessary expertise to overcome identical failures is not being adequately taught.

How else can anyone explain how all the excellent talent that has come through Knoxville over recent years seem always to get confused and lost in exactly the same manner? They hit a brick wall and become panicked and paralyzed.

It simply can't merely be coincidence or bad luck or players stubbornly choosing not to listen to the coaches during the games EVERY SINGLE SEASON, can it??? Holly would have to be the most unlucky coach on the planet if it were true that every single one of her players are well prepared to beat any team, but that every single one of those players simply refuse to run the plays right against good coaching, wouldn't she?

No, IMO it's just that they reach the limit of knowledge and skills necessary to get over the hump. The fact that every talented Lady Vol class and every combination of Lady Vol players react (or don't react) similarly in situations like we saw Thursday night can't just be coincidence.

But the LVs did not falter (this season) against Marquette, Texas or Auburn-all games that were close down the stretch.

Did anyone really and truly think going undefeated was a reasonable expectation for this LV team or, given that freshman are playing a key role, that they would lose a few games?

If we say, yeah, pre-season expectations are that some losses will occur, then a loss does not necessarily mean that Holly is at great fault.

And how would we want those losses to look? Again, the reality and odds are that they will lose a few games, so what kind of losses should be the ones that are so out of the ordinary that they set of alarm bells,. I don't think a close loss on the road to A&M falls into that category.

A loss to unranked teams, blow-outs to ranked opponents, and perhaps a loss at home due to poor effort would all raise red flags.

Now last season, the LVs did have some disconcerting losses. The conventional explanation, following the 16-0 start, was that those problems were due to bad chemistry that went away with the transfers. We need to see how this season unfolds to know if that explanation or an anti-Holly explanation is more viable.

 

[governmentmule]

OMG the sky is falling

the Mighty Lady Vols have lost a game

what ever are we going to do ?:unsure:

blame the coaches and players I guess

 

[teacherdean]

I would have had KK on the court to push Hillsman out of the way, at least till KK fouled out. Make her really work for those rebound baskets. I was surprised how much Green was pushed around. Thought she was stronger.

Russell has to have that responsibility, if not all, at least most of the time. A&M has only one experienced big post and that is Hillman and that does not stop her from being aggressive in the post. The fact is Russell is soft against big experienced post, Hillman usually ends up with foul issues however, the other night she had her way, especially on offense. What happened to all this weight lifting Russell did this summer? Russell will need to play much better against McCowan or we better give her help down low.

 

[lvocd]

But the LVs did not falter (this season) against Marquette, Texas or Auburn-all games that were close down the stretch.

Did anyone really and truly think going undefeated was a reasonable expectation for this LV team or, given that freshman are playing a key role, that they would lose a few games?

If we say, yeah, pre-season expectations are that some losses will occur, then a loss does not necessarily mean that Holly is at great fault.

And how would we want those losses to look? Again, the reality and odds are that they will lose a few games, so what kind of losses should be the ones that are so out of the ordinary that they set of alarm bells,. I don't think a close loss on the road to A&M falls into that category.

A loss to unranked teams, blow-outs to ranked opponents, and perhaps a loss at home due to poor effort would all raise red flags.

Now last season, the LVs did have some disconcerting losses. The conventional explanation, following the 16-0 start, was that those problems were due to bad chemistry that went away with the transfers. We need to see how this season unfolds to know if that explanation or an anti-Holly explanation is more viable.

No, I would never have believed the team would have started at 15-0 much less go completely undefeated for tge season, so I concede that point.

But, I disagree that the wins in the closely contested earlier games are comparable to the loss at A&M. It was early in the season, but Tennessee's talent is exponentially better than that of Marquette and Auburn so neither game should actually been as tight as they were.

Now, Texas? That was a heckuva game for the Lady Vols and it surprised the entire country that Tennessee was so dominant -- especially Karen Aston and her squad. It was a phenomenal performance by Lady Vol players and coaches alike. Magical, even.

And I also agree with you that bad losses to unranked, supposedly overmatched opponents are FAR worse than a loss to a well-coached team like A&M. No question! I am thrilled to the max that Tennessee hasn't lost any such games this year because those losses in the past 5-10 years have been fairly common.

What bugs me most about the other night is that A&M players were so gassed that they were visibly struggling to remain upright, yet Tennessee managed to hand them a victory.

Even if it WAS against a well coached and ranked team, the fact that Holly couldn't think on her feet to come up with some plays to take advantage of Texas' absolute exhaustion, is exasperating. I have literally never in all my years of watching basketball witnessed a team struggling as much to not collapse to the floor in exhaustion as was A&M. We had nothing to throw at them.

All this said, I will agree with you that I should let the season play out. Hopefully they'll do better next time they're in a similar situation.

 

[madtownvol]

No, I would never have believed the team would have started at 15-0 much less go completely undefeated for tge season, so I concede that point.

But, I disagree that the wins in the closely contested earlier games are comparable to the loss at A&M. It was early in the season, but Tennessee's talent is exponentially better than that of Marquette and Auburn so neither game should actually been as tight as they were.

Now, Texas? That was a heckuva game for the Lady Vols and it surprised the entire country that Tennessee was so dominant -- especially Karen Aston and her squad. It was a phenomenal performance by Lady Vol players and coaches alike. Magical, even.

And I also agree with you that bad losses to unranked, supposedly overmatched opponents are FAR worse than a loss to a well-coached team like A&M. No question! I am thrilled to the max that Tennessee hasn't lost any such games this year because those losses in the past 5-10 years have been fairly common.

What bugs me most about the other night is that A&M players were so gassed that they were visibly struggling to remain upright, yet Tennessee managed to hand them a victory.

Even if it WAS against a well coached and ranked team, the fact that Holly couldn't think on her feet to come up with some plays to take advantage of Texas' absolute exhaustion, is exasperating. I have literally never in all my years of watching basketball witnessed a team struggling as much to not collapse to the floor in exhaustion as was A&M. We had nothing to throw at them.

All this said, I will agree with you that I should let the season play out. Hopefully they'll do better next time they're in a similar situation.

I thought the LVs would pull away in the 4th quarter due to A&M looking gassed, so I share your pain. In a bit of the same ole story from last season,though, the LVs had many wide open shots that they could not hit and that would have iced the game. They also had turn overs down the stretch as well so its a mixed bag but they fumbled the game away. It was the first time, they looked rattled down the stretch. I am very interested to see how they bounce back against SC.

 

[lvocd]

What happened to all this weight lifting Russell did this summer?

With her particular physiology, Russell could lift the equivalent of a gazillion pounds every season and she's unlikely to get any stronger in her upper arms and hands than she is right now.

She'll likely never leap more than a couple of inches off the ground, either, no matter how hard she tries.

Russell has to make up for those weaknesses by continuing to develop moves around the basket. If I were her I'd be immersing myself in instructional videos, then begging Dean to watch me practice new stuff I'm learning in my free time.

 

[feathersax]

Whoa, it must have been hard having to wait until game 17 of the season before you could fire away with that zinger!

Stalk much? CPS would NOT have allowed that loss, nor would have many competent coaches. Coach Jumper, where are you? :whistling:

 

[teacherdean]

With her particular physiology, Russell could lift the equivalent of a gazillion pounds every season and she's unlikely to get any stronger in her upper arms and hands than she is right now.

She'll likely never leap more than a couple of inches off the ground, either, no matter how hard she tries.

Russell has to make up for those weaknesses by continuing to develop moves around the basket. If I were her I'd be immersing myself in instructional videos, then begging Dean to watch me practice new stuff I'm learning in my free time.

At this point it is too late to be concerned about Russell getting stronger, what we need to do is the same thing other teams do against Russell, they double team or sag into the post. That is a coaching decision. However, if you pay attention to Russell she can be awesome on both ends of the court on occasions but more aggressive when it comes to scoring. She just seem to lack the consistent killer instinct as Nared, Davis, Westbrook, Jackson or Green. If she is going to be successful at the next level she has to be more aggressive and consistent on both ends of the court. My bet is once Russell receives good coaching she will meet whatever is demanded of her.

 

[Rickster]

OMG the sky is falling

the Mighty Lady Vols have lost a game

what ever are we going to do ?:unsure:

Ooooh Nooooo

 

[lvocd]

At this point it is too late to be concerned about Russell getting stronger, what we need to do is the same thing other teams do against Russell, they double team or sag into the post. That is a coaching decision. However, if you pay attention to Russell she can be awesome on both ends of the court on occasions but more aggressive when it comes to scoring. She just seem to lack the consistent killer instinct as Nared, Davis, Westbrook, Jackson or Green. If she is going to be successful at the next level she has to be more aggressive and consistent on both ends of the court. My bet is once Russell receives good coaching she will meet whatever is demanded of her.

I agree Russell has had many outstanding moments on both ends this season. She's entered every season after her first showing incremental improvements, so she obviously has the desire and work ethic.

I'm not sure, though, if I agree that she lacks aggressiveness or killer instinct because I personally believe that her slower-than-average movements make it only APPEAR that she lacks agressiveness. I mean, you can corner a naturally slow-moving sloth and poke it with a sharp stick until it is mad as a hornet, but it won't EVER appear as aggressive as a lightning-quick honey badger in the same situation!

But seriously, I think Russell has three issues:

1. Her lack of upper arm and hand strength means that guards can't simply throw the ball into the post at a level above everyone else's reach -- which would be a HUGE advantage against smaller defenses -- because she can't grasp the ball tightly enough with her arms raised high to consistently catch it.

2. She is obviously not physically built to leap above everyone else to catch high inbound passes, either, so that limits her touches as well.

3. Defenses regularly double- and triple-team her as guards attempt to throw passes into her that she can handle (neither too high above her head that she has to jump, or too low for her bend to reach), and so too often they have to make the decision to take another outside shot instead.

If Mercedes could jump and also had strength in her upper arms and hands, her game would be amazing. She HAS made plenty of impressive moves and shots that have gotten me to my feet, though, so I am thrilled that Mercedes stayed for this season! She's having an outstanding year and has so much to be proud of.

She just needs to work on some surprise moves to spring on triple teams now and then and, also, work on lightening her shooting touch a tad. Sometimes her shots look like iron balls shot out of a cannon instead basketballs out of soft hands.