Last Year's Talent

[JohnMarxism]

Here are the rosters of the SEC east for last year, accounting for attrition up to the 2013 spring game.

Very good info

 

[1982Alum]

1. You're judging a DE for his pass coverage, are you mentally ill?

2. If he wasn't a 4 year starter, then he was a 3 year starter.

3. Everything else you simply made up. How many missed tackles did he have? How many times did he get blown off the ball? You don't know, because you simply made this up.

In his junior year he was a DE and sometime OLB in the D they played while Sunseri was here. They tried him as OLB because he was too small to play the DE. Not made up, I watched the games.

How many missed tackles? Too many to count. Remember the DL got shredded week after week against the run and Smith was a prime reason we couldn't stop anyone who ran against us under Dooley.

He started few if any games his freshman/sophmore years. He also missed games due to injury (hand I believe) so at best he was a part time starter in his college days.

Certainly one of the biggest busts in the last 10 years considering his hype when he first came here to UT. Right up there with C. Donald (5 star LB bust) in my opinion. He will be an early cutdown victim in the NFL.

 

[sjt18]

We didn't underachieve last year, that's the problem.

No. The "problem" is that you don't recognize the fact that last year was an underachievement. I am sure you have convinced yourself that the margins of loss vs Oregon, Bama, Mizzou, and Auburn are reflective of the difference in talent... but they weren't. I am sure you have somehow convinced yourself that it was OK for the USA game to be that close or for UT to lose to Vandy... but it wasn't.

Whether by strategic choice or lack of competence, this staff did not get all that could have been had out of last year's roster.

 

[sjt18]

1. This 3 star qb is winning the battle against two other 3 stars and a sophmore 4 star, let's not act like that's impressive.

This is a record setting McDonald's AA who led his team to a victory over Clowney's HS team winning a battle over 3 talented guys. One a 4*. One an elite 11 guy who probably would have earned his 4th star had he not been hurt... and a guy who outperformed both in the spring game. If the non-sense you posted matters... than so does this.

2. So you're only problem with our staff is that they lost to Vandy?

No.

I do not have an on-going problem with the staff. Last year is in the books. It is part of their record. If it comes to it after fall '15, it will weigh against them... but will by then be confirmed by other performance.

My problem to the extent I have one is with people who keep trying to set the bar low and make excuses for the staff. Jones has only really done that once with the "toughest schedule in the history of college football" hyperbole. Otherwise, he seems to have a very keen understanding that he has to win sooner and not later.

I have a problem with those like you apparently who make out like UT's situation is ALWAYS worse than other programs when you are trying to make excuses or justify low standards.

You probably need to go back and watch Lion King again. Life's not fair Simba. Jones has to win or he has to make way for someone else. That's the reality of modern college football. The other choice is you risk the future of your program (and its revenue) on the hope that a guy who has not proven he can win will someday figure it out and have recruiting credibility when he finally does.

 

[sjt18]

Here are the rosters of the SEC east for last year, accounting for attrition up to the 2013 spring game.

How does that look right now?

 

[sjt18]

BTW, Jones was so concerned about his 4 returning QB's that he didn't make signing one this year a priority. I guess he thinks more of his 3* guys than 8188... and unlike 8188... Jones is willing to put his career in the hands of those 4 guys.

 

[KBVol]

He played a lot of snaps. 4 year starter, right?

Sorry 88, but Jacques was the virtual definition of a 4 star bust. He played like a 2 star while at UT. Consider......

Played in 47 of a possible 49 games

Had 5 career sacks

In 2 of his 4 seasons he did not have a full sack.... both of those seasons he played in all 12 games

Last year, as a senior, had 2 tackles for loss and .5 sacks in 10 gms

If that's not the production of a highly rated recruit who wound up being a bust I don't know what is. He just never produced and never lived up to his billing, no matter how many games he played/started.

 

[Vol8188]

Sorry 88, but Jacques was the virtual definition of a 4 star bust. He played like a 2 star while at UT. Consider......

Played in 47 of a possible 49 games

Had 5 career sacks

In 2 of his 4 seasons he did not have a full sack.... both of those seasons he played in all 12 games

Last year, as a senior, had 2 tackles for loss and .5 sacks in 10 gms

If that's not the production of a highly rated recruit who wound up being a bust I don't know what is. He just never produced and never lived up to his billing, no matter how many games he played/started.

I can concede that one.

 

[Vol8188]

.

 

[Vol8188]

This is a record setting McDonald's AA who led his team to a victory over Clowney's HS team winning a battle over 3 talented guys. One a 4*. One an elite 11 guy who probably would have earned his 4th star had he not been hurt... and a guy who outperformed both in the spring game. If the non-sense you posted matters... than so does this.



No.

I do not have an on-going problem with the staff. Last year is in the books. It is part of their record. If it comes to it after fall '15, it will weigh against them... but will by then be confirmed by other performance.

My problem to the extent I have one is with people who keep trying to set the bar low and make excuses for the staff. Jones has only really done that once with the "toughest schedule in the history of college football" hyperbole. Otherwise, he seems to have a very keen understanding that he has to win sooner and not later.

I have a problem with those like you apparently who make out like UT's situation is ALWAYS worse than other programs when you are trying to make excuses or justify low standards.

You probably need to go back and watch Lion King again. Life's not fair Simba. Jones has to win or he has to make way for someone else. That's the reality of modern college football. The other choice is you risk the future of your program (and its revenue) on the hope that a guy who has not proven he can win will someday figure it out and have recruiting credibility when he finally does.

1. Worley was ranked as a 3 star for a reason. Playing in a spread offense at the high school level can make any qb put up insane stats. So you have no point here, but you know that.

2. What excuses have I made? We should have finished 5-7 due to our talent, and we did.

 

[Vol8188]

No. The "problem" is that you don't recognize the fact that last year was an underachievement. I am sure you have convinced yourself that the margins of loss vs Oregon, Bama, Mizzou, and Auburn are reflective of the difference in talent... but they weren't. I am sure you have somehow convinced yourself that it was OK for the USA game to be that close or for UT to lose to Vandy... but it wasn't.

Whether by strategic choice or lack of competence, this staff did not get all that could have been had out of last year's roster.

What do close games have to do with under or over achieving? We should have won 5 games and we did.

 

[Vol8188]

Here are the rosters of the SEC east for last year, accounting for attrition up to the 2013 spring game.

Great stuff. Who's rankings did you use?

 

[Vol8188]

Only fault? I actually did not care to list the numerous faults on our defense last year, including AJ. Maybe 220 rushing yards allowed per game? AJ did NOT play above the level of a 4 STAR MLB. You need to take the blinders off and stop the Kool-Aide.

When did I proclaim our defense was without fault? And you're simply wrong about AJ. He's a great LB.

 

[gunner]

You are correct sir! AJ "slowly" made 106 tackles this year, and 138 "slow" tackles last year!

Some of you guys are unbelievable! :banghead2:

If we don't have someone like AJ, we win maybe 3 games last year!


.

I have watched him play for three years, it doesn't take a football genius to see that he needs to improve his lateral quickness, and pass coverage skill, especially, when he is isolated on a quick shifty running back. If you doubt any of this, the Oregon game and WKU game a perfect examples of what I am talking about. Hopefully, he will improve in the areas, and become a more complete player.

 

[Vol8188]

I have watched him play for three years, it doesn't take a football genius to see that he needs to improve his lateral quickness, and pass coverage skill, especially, when he is isolated on a quick shifty running back. If you doubt any of this, the Oregon game and WKU game a perfect examples of what I am talking about. Hopefully, he will improve in the areas, and become a more complete player.

Anytime a MLB is isolated on a quick shifty back in pass coverage, the defense is expected to lose that battle.

 

[sjt18]

What do close games have to do with under or over achieving? We should have won 5 games and we did.

Should have won 6 games and didn't. Five is nothing more nor less than you making excuses. Even Jones said that six and a bowl was their objective. Of course you probably think he was wrong too.

What does being competitive and not being competitive have to do with under/over achieving? Is that a serious question? So what you would say then is that the win over USA was more impressive and said more about the quality of last year's team than the loss vs UGA?

 

[Vol8188]

Should have won 6 games and didn't. Five is nothing more nor less than you making excuses. Even Jones said that six and a bowl was their objective. Of course you probably think he was wrong too.

What does being competitive and not being competitive have to do with under/over achieving? Is that a serious question? So what you would say then is that the win over USA was more impressive and said more about the quality of last year's team than the loss vs UGA?

If we are talking about achievement, then the only thing that really matters are wins and loses. You don't get bonus points for blowing people out or losing close games.

What 6 teams should we have beat?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Worley got injured, therefore we didn't win 6 games. It's that simple. We lost the games we were supposed to lose and won the games we were supposed to win (with the exception of SC of course). We were not picked to beat Vandy.

 

[sjt18]

1. Worley was ranked as a 3 star for a reason.

So was Maziel, Ferguson, Maty Mauk, Connor Shaw, Nick Marshall,.... right?

Playing in a spread offense at the high school level can make any qb put up insane stats. So you have no point here, but you know that.

Yes. I have a point. But no doubt you DON'T know that. There are plenty of good or even great QB's who only get rated 3* by Rivals. Worley hasn't exactly had a charmed career where everything was easy. He played through Dooley's mess and then with a clueless WR corps last fall.

Through it all... and through constant competition rather than votes of clear confidence by his coach... Worley has been a team leader. He's kept a good attitude toward his rivals at QB. He's worked to improve himself... and he's never publicly whined or blamed anyone else.

Unlike guys like you who sit around taking ignorant shots at him... he's been nothing but a class act.

2. What excuses have I made? We should have finished 5-7 due to our talent, and we did.

Nope. That in and of itself is an excuse.

UT SHOULD NOT have lost to Vandy. SOME OF US predicted before the season that UT matched up well with USCe... they did and won. In retrospect, Jones decision to start Peterman may have cost them a victory against UF. I respect him for making a gutsy call... but he still owns that poor decision. Five wins was subpar... no matter how much you want to spin it.

And unless I am confusing you with someone else, you are already low balling this season.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

If we are talking about achievement, then the only thing that really matters and wins and loses. You don't get bonus points for blowing people out or losing close games.

What 6 teams should we have beat?

I have brought up the same things with him 88. You're wasting your time. He believes that if you're competitive in games that means something. It doesn't. If you lose by a FG or by 50 a loss is a loss. There is no asterisk beside a loss on a schedule that says "oh we were very competitive and only lost by x." Last year our game against Auburn was the same against UGA, a loss. The USA game was the same as the UK game, a win.

 

[sjt18]

Worley got injured, therefore we didn't win 6 games. It's that simple. We lost the games we were supposed to lose and won the games we were supposed to win (with the exception of SC of course). We were not picked to beat Vandy.

Agree about Worley. UT had more talent than Vandy. That should have been a win. Jones played it too conservative... and they let a simple WR screen beat them without making effective adjustments.

The funny thing is that Jones believed and said that he had to "manage" the game. Franklin said the exact same thing. Jones underestimated his team. Franklin didn't.

 

[thebjd]

Worley got injured, therefore we didn't win 6 games. It's that simple. We lost the games we were supposed to lose and won the games we were supposed to win (with the exception of SC of course). We were not picked to beat Vandy.

We should have beaten Vandy. That game is really impossible to excuse. We gave that one away and should have put them away several times. It was very similar to the 2005 game where we had several opportunities to end it, let them hang around and choked it away.

 

[sjt18]

If we are talking about achievement, then the only thing that really matters are wins and loses. You don't get bonus points for blowing people out or losing close games.

What 6 teams should we have beat?

I am sorry but that is moronic. No. You don't get a half win for a close game. But competitiveness IS an achievement... a MEASURABLE achievement that matters.


I guess you would say a college student who scores a 29 on a test was the same as one that scored 59, right? I mean they both got F's... that's all that really counts, right? NO. One has demonstrated that they are MUCH closer to being a passing student than the other. One pretty much laid down.

 

[Vol8188]

So was Maziel, Ferguson, Maty Mauk, Connor Shaw, Nick Marshall,.... right?

Yes. I have a point. But no doubt you DON'T know that. There are plenty of good or even great QB's who only get rated 3* by Rivals. Worley hasn't exactly had a charmed career where everything was easy. He played through Dooley's mess and then with a clueless WR corps last fall.

Through it all... and through constant competition rather than votes of clear confidence by his coach... Worley has been a team leader. He's kept a good attitude toward his rivals at QB. He's worked to improve himself... and he's never publicly whined or blamed anyone else.

Unlike guys like you who sit around taking ignorant shots at him... he's been nothing but a class act.



Nope. That in and of itself is an excuse.

UT SHOULD NOT have lost to Vandy. SOME OF US predicted before the season that UT matched up well with USCe... they did and won. In retrospect, Jones decision to start Peterman may have cost them a victory against UF. I respect him for making a gutsy call... but he still owns that poor decision. Five wins was subpar... no matter how much you want to spin it.

And unless I am confusing you with someone else, you are already low balling this season.

You're right, we should expect all 3 stars to play like Johnny Manziel.

5 wins is not subpar because we should have lost to USC and beat Vandy. It's also strange you defend Worley so much, yet don't see how big of a loss that was for our offense. Mixed in with the injuries at wr, you have a bad combination.

 

[sjt18]

You're right, we should expect all 3 stars to play like Johnny Manziel.

No. Nor should we write them off and use "yeah but he was a 3*" as an ironclad argument.

5 wins is not subpar because we should have lost to USC and beat Vandy.

Nope. Help yourself. Several of us saw USCe as a good matchup. With Worley, Mizzou is also a closer game and a possible win. A "game manager" at QB was exactly what the Vols needed in that game.

It's also strange you defend Worley so much, yet don't see how big of a loss that was for our offense. Mixed in with the injuries at wr, you have a bad combination.

I see it as a huge loss. Not enough to explain Vandy. Not enough to excuse the coaches for not having a back up more prepared. But it was a tremendous loss. I think more of Worley's ability than most around here. In fact, I like all 4 of UT's returning QB's though I can't see Peterman shaking UF.

I think USCe was a better team than Mizzou. I don't think it was a fluke that they beat Mizzou the week after losing to UT. I think those 3 teams at that point in the season were pretty close to each other.

It would be hard to claim that Worley would have been worth 28 pts vs Mizzou... but he would have been worth something just in his ability to keep their O off the field.