Lebron/Jordan

#201
#201
n_huffhines said:
So you are saying that an understanding of personnel and roles doesn't factor into "playing IQ"?
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It does, but understanding from an on court playing and practicing with guys every day, on a team that was built around his personality and attributes, is different than building a team with a group of guys that you haven't personally played with or know their makeup. Not being able to adapt to that doesn't lessen his on court IQ, it just makes him a bad GM.
 
#203
#203
I agree with Jerry on the IQ thing, on-court IQ refers to what you do on the court, not in the front office IMO. They're completely different jobs. It might make you 5% more likely to be a good GM, but I don't think there's a strong correlation at all
 
#205
#205
n_huffhines said:
I love that D4H's unraveling is happening before just a select small group of VN. He might not stick around if it happened in the FF.
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His rebuttal was surprising yet not surprising at the same time. You are right if it was in the FF he'd probably duck out.
 
#206
#206
If Lebron had MJ's mid range game especially the fall away jumper from 15 he'd be unstoppable. Problem is he is dribble drive or spot 3. MJ still the Goat
 
#209
#209
n_huffhines said:
Wha?!

First of all, Phil Jackson won 5 titles without MJ.

Second, by natural evolution the game is more sophisticated today and you will hear a lot of people say that Lebron is the smartest player in the league.

Third, when MJ played for the Wizards, he was one of the least efficient scorers in the entire NBA. If he had such a high IQ, he would have stopped shooting. But no, he averaged a whopping 22 FGApg, 5 more than teammate Rip Hamilton. This is as bad as basketball IQ gets. He didn't know how to be anybody other than MJ.

Fourth, I question MJ's basketball IQ based on what he's done in the front office (but who knows, maybe Lebron is just as bad of a scout).
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Yes, Phil did, all 5 with Kobe and 3 with Shaq. Phil did a great job of finding the team with the best players in the league that was underachieving and leading them to a championship at the right time. I question Phil's basketball IQ with what he has done with the Knicks. Jordan was the GOAT and LeBron is a close 2nd, imo.
 
#211
#211
The Dog said:
Yes, Phil did, all 5 with Kobe and 3 with Shaq. Phil did a great job of finding the team with the best players in the league that was underachieving and leading them to a championship at the right time. I question Phil's basketball IQ with what he has done with the Knicks. Jordan was the GOAT and LeBron is a close 2nd, imo.
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The fact of the matter is Lebron has won titles with a rookie head coach and a nobody and MJ won titles with a guy who won 5 without him. No matter how much you want to discredit Phil, he's a better coach than those guys.

FWIW, in a study of 60 long tenured coaches, all of them saw significant player improvement in year 1 but only Phil and Pop saw improvement in year 2.
 
#214
#214
n_huffhines said:
He's made it out of the first round one time without Lebron, in 5 or 6 seasons. He may be a good coach but in my mind he hasn't proven it.
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That's fair. But I would say this season alone is a pretty strong indicator, playoffs or not.
 
#215
#215
When you're not even the best SF on the court in the Finals, your claim to GOAT takes a serious hit.
 
#216
#216
volfanbill said:
When you're not even the best SF on the court in the Finals, your claim to GOAT takes a serious hit.
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Gimme a break. The Warriors are 100% focused on Lebron and he had a triple double and shot a better % than Durant last night. Lebron was easily the best player on the court last night.
 
#217
#217
n_huffhines said:
Gimme a break. The Warriors are 100% focused on Lebron and he had a triple double and shot a better % than Durant last night. Lebron was easily the best player on the court last night.
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If you only look at certain stat lines sure. All around best player on the court right now is Durant
 
#218
#218
volfanbill said:
If you only look at certain stat lines sure. All around best player on the court right now is Durant
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Durant got 3-4 dunks in game 1 because the Cavs were more worried about Curry. The burden on LBJ is much greater.

You're trying to disqualify Lebron from the GOAT conversation based on 2 finals games, even though he was the best player on the floor in 1 of them. I don't think you're that much of a reactionary. I suppose you are just trolling.
 
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#219
#219
n_huffhines said:
Durant got 3-4 dunks in game 1 because the Cavs were more worried about Curry. The burden on LBJ is much greater.

You're trying to disqualify Lebron from the GOAT conversation based on 2 finals games, even though he was the best player on the floor in 1 of them. I don't think you're that much of a reactionary. I suppose you are just trolling.
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Not trolling and he's been all around out played in both. If the pattern sticks, his GOAT status seriously takes a hit
 
#220
#220
If he has 2 more games like game 1, it hurts. If he as two more games like game 2, his legend grows in my mind.

I don't think you appreciate just how good the Warriors perimeter D is. It's almost as good as their perimeter O. They can put Green, Durant, Thompson, Iggy, Barnes, or Livingston on him. They can switch all day as long as it's not Curry. That's just ridiculous.
 
#221
#221
It's really a lose/lose situation for KD and Lebron. You can't please everyone. If GS wins, people will say KD had to join the 73 win warriors etc, if he loses he choked. If LBJ win, people will say he had to be carried by his teammates and also had to have the "superteam", if he loses he choked. At the end of the day, as long as Lebron can look back on his career and say I did this best I could with what I had, he's not going to have any trouble sleeping at night. And I think he's done that. Whether he's the GOAT or not, which I think he is, is up for debate. But I think he's past the point of having to prove his critics wrong. He did that last year.
 
#222
#222
n_huffhines said:
If he has 2 more games like game 1, it hurts. If he as two more games like game 2, his legend grows in my mind.

I don't think you appreciate just how good the Warriors perimeter D is. It's almost as good as their perimeter O. They can put Green, Durant, Thompson, Iggy, Barnes, or Livingston on him. They can switch all day as long as it's not Curry. That's just ridiculous.
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This helps my argument
 
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