Let's compare Jesus and Muhammed (and debate homosexuality) (and Tombstone).

[therealUT]

Ever owned or took slaves?


Jesus Christ - NO

Abu al-Qasim Muhammad Ibn Abd Allah Ibn Abd al-Muttalib Ibn Hashim - Yes, as a matter of fact islam's founder's first converts were his own slaves and while he was living his forces took many many additional slaves.

Jesus wasn't exactly anti-slavery.

Luke 7

1
When he had finished all his words to the people, he entered Capernaum.
2
A centurion there had a slave who was ill and about to die, and he was valuable to him.
3
When he heard about Jesus, he sent elders of the Jews to him, asking him to come and save the life of his slave.
4
They approached Jesus and strongly urged him to come, saying, "He deserves to have you do this for him,
5
for he loves our nation and he built the synagogue for us."
6
And Jesus went with them, but when he was only a short distance from the house, the centurion sent friends to tell him, "Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you enter under my roof.
7
Therefore, I did not consider myself worthy to come to you; but say the word and let my servant be healed.
8
For I too am a person subject to authority, with soldiers subject to me. And I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come here,' and he comes; and to my slave, 'Do this,' and he does it."
9
When Jesus heard this he was amazed at him and, turning, said to the crowd following him, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith."
10
When the messengers returned to the house, they found the slave in good health.

Probably would have been a good time for Jesus to maybe suggest setting the slave free? Instead, he heals him in order that the slave owner might get full benefit from the slave.

 

[gsvol]

Greater than 0% and their arguments, if one sincerely starts from the premise that Jesus may or may not have existed, seem sound and logical to me.

Some of the many non-Biblical accounts concerning Jesus:


FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS:

"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man,
if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer
of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as
receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to
him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles.
He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion
of the principal men among us, had condemned him
to the cross, those that loved him at the first did
not forsake him. For he appeared to them alive again
the third day. As the divine prophets had foretold
these and ten thousand other wonderful things
concerning him. And the tribes of Christians so
named from him are not extinct at this day."

THE BABYLONIAN TALMUD:

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu (Jesus) [Some
texts: Yeshu/Jesus the Nazarene] was hanged
[crucified]. Forty days before the execution, a
herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to
be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and
enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say
anything in his favor, let him come forward and
plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought
forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of
the Passover."

CORNELIUS TACITUS:

"Christus, the founder of the [Christian] name, was
put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea
in the reign of Tiberius. But the pernicious superstition,
repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through
Judea, where the mischief originated, by through
the city of Rome also."

GAIUS SUETONIUS TRANQUILLUS:

"As the Jews were making constant disturbances
at the instigation of Chrestus (Christ), [Claudius]
expelled them from Rome."

THALLUS:

His works exist only in fragments but he tried to
dismiss the midday darkness as an eclipse and is
refuted by;

JULIUS AFRICANUS:

Argued (and any astronomer can confirm) a solar
eclipse cannot physically occur during a full moon
due to the alignment of the planets.

and;

PHLEGON OF TRALLES:

"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful
darkness. The rocks were rent by an earthquake
and many places in Judea and other districts were
thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third
book of his History, calls, as appears to me without
reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews
celebrate the passover on the 14th day according
to the moon, and the passion of our Savior falls on
the day before the passover. But an eclipse of the
sun takes place only when the moon comes under
the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time...
Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar,
at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from
the sixth hour to the ninth-manifestly that one of
which we speak.

PLINY THE YOUNGER:

Spoke of Christians being tortured and even meeting
death rather than deny Christ.

CLEMENT OF ROME:

The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the
Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was sent forth from
God. So then Christ is from God, and the Apostles
are from Christ. Both therefore came of the will of
God in the appointed order. Having therefore
received a charge, and being fully assured through
the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and
confirmed in the word of God will full assurance
of the Holy Ghost, they went forth with the glad
tidings that the kingdom of God should come. So
preaching everywhere in country and town, they
appointed their first fruits, when they had proved
them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons unto
them that should believe."

IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH:

"Jesus Christ who was of the race of David, who
was the Son of Mary, who was truly born and ate
and drank, was truly persecuted under Pontius
Pilate, was truly crucified and died in the sight of
those in heaven and on earth and those under the
earth. Who moreover was truly raised from the
dead, His father having raised Him, who in the like
fashion will so raise us also who believe in Him."

"He is truly of the race of David according to the
flesh but Son of God by the Divine will and powered,
truly born of a virgin and baptized by John that all
righteousness might be fulfilled by Him, truly nailed
up in the flesh for our sakes under Pontius Pilate
and Herod the tetrarch... That He might set up an
ensign unto all ages through His resurrection."

"Be ye fully persuaded concerning the birth and
the passion and the resurrection, which took place
in the time of the governorship of Pontius Pilate.
For these things were truly and certainly done by
Jesus Christ our hope."

QUADRATUS OF ATHENS:

"The deeds of our Savior were always before you,
for they were true miracles. Those that were healed,
those that were raised from the dead, who were
seen, not only when healed and when raised, but
were always present. They remained living a long
time, not only while our Lord was on earth, but
likewise when he had left the earth. So that some
of them have also lived to our own times."

ARISTIDES THE ATHENIAN:

"When the Son of God was pleased to come
upon the earth, they received him with wanton
violence and betrayed him into the hands of Pilate
the Roman governor. Paying no respect to his good
deeds and the countless miracles he performed
among them, they demanded a sentence of death
by the cross... Now the Christians trace their origin
from the Lord Jesus Christ... The Son of the most
high God who came down from heaven, being born
of a pure [Hebrew] virgin, for the salvation of men...
And he was crucified, being pierced with nails by
the Jews. And after three days He came to life
again and ascended into heaven. His twelve apostles,
after his ascension into heaven, went forth into
the provinces of the whole world proclaiming the
true doctrine...
They who still observe the righteousness enjoined
by their preaching are called Christians."

JUSTIN MARTYR:

"There is a village in Judea, thirty-five stadia from
Jerusalem, where Jesus Christ was born, as you
can see from the tax registers under Cyrenius,
your first procurator in Judea... He was born of
a virgin as a man, and was named Jesus, and
was crucified, and died, and rose again, and
ascended into heaven... After He was crucified,
all His acquaintances denied Him. But once He
had risen from the dead and appeared to them and explained the prophecies which foretold all these
things and ascended into heaven, the apostles
believed. They received the power given to them
by Jesus and went into the world preaching the
Gospel."

"At the time of His birth, Magi from Arabia came
and worshipped Him, coming first to Herod, who
was then sovereign in your land... When they
crucified Him, driving in the nails, they pierced
His hands and feet. Those who crucified Him
parted His garments among themselves, each
casting lots... But you did not repent after you
learned that He rose from the dead. Instead,
you sent men into to the world to proclaim that
a godless heresy had sprung from Jesus, a
Galilean deceiver, whom was crucified and that
His disciples stole His body from the tomb in order
to deceive men by claiming He had risen from the
dead and ascended into heaven."

HEGESIPPUS:

"This man [James] was a true witness to both
Jews and Greeks that Jesus is the Christ... The
Corinthian church continued in the true doctrine
until Primus became bishop. I mixed with them
on my voyage to Rome and spent several days
with the Corinthians, during which we were
refreshed with the true doctrine. On arrival at
Rome I pieced together the succession down to
Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus, Anicetus
being succeeded by Soter and he by Eleutherus.
In ever line of bishops and in every city things
accord with the preaching of the Law, the
Prophets, and the Lord."

Based on my sinuses right now, I view trees as proof that God hates me.

Allergies??

People in this thread going all over the place with this. If your going to compare anything in this thread in regards to Jesus, certainly stay out of denominations, because it's pretty obvious that everyone of them have their differences. Compare what's in the Bible to what's in the Koran.

Jesus was God in flesh.

Mohammad was a man with wars to rage against Christians.

Not much to compare really.

Edudated??


Jesus Christ - Yes, he astounded scholars when he was twelve years old, not unlike the current twelve year old college student who has mathematically refuted the big-bang theory. (if not the TV series humor)

Abu al-Qasim Muhammad Ibn Abd Allah Ibn Abd al-Muttalib Ibn Hashim - NO - he was an illiterate who never learned to read or write his whole life and signed documents with his palm print, the total sum of his knowledge came from his hallucinations, pagan moon theory and what he heard from Jewish and Christian scholars which he incorperated into his nonsensical book that he called divine.

FWIW, a Baptist sermon is the only congregation I've ever walked out of.

Good for us!!

 

[therealUT]

Some of the many non-Biblical accounts concerning Jesus:


FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS:

You could have stopped right there. His account is the only one that did not rely on the Gospel accounts and the letters, and as I stated was written in the First Century.

His account is questionable.

 

[IPorange]

Seaver, The Persecution of the Jews in the Roman Empire.


Happy reading, gsvol.



The places I've met Baptists and Church of God members of the disposition I have described are in the rural areas of East Tennessee, North and East of Knoxville.

 

[Tenacious D]

You could have stopped right there. His account is the only one that did not rely on the Gospel accounts and the letters, and as I stated was written in the First Century.

His account is questionable.

Questionable no more means "untrue" than probably equals "certain".

Not saying it is or is not true, just making a point.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[therealUT]

Questionable no more means "untrue" than probably equals "certain".

Not saying it is or is not true, just making a point.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

I am not saying it is true or untrue. I am not stating that the Biblical accounts are true or untrue.

I am simply stating that none of the evidence is convincing, either in its narrative or authenticity.

 

[CSVol]

I am not saying it is true or untrue. I am not stating that the Biblical accounts are true or untrue.

I am simply stating that none of the evidence is convincing, either in its narrative or authenticity.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. Regardless, the most absurd fact of all is that we allowed ourselves to participate in 29 pages of discussion started by gsvol. That alone is redonkulous..

 

[therealUT]

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

Did I?

 

[gsvol]

Jesus wasn't exactly anti-slavery.



Probably would have been a good time for Jesus to maybe suggest setting the slave free? Instead, he heals him in order that the slave owner might get full benefit from the slave.

Jesus said to render unto Ceasar what was Ceasar's and unto God what was God's.

Since you provided the scripture for your argument, then you do believe that Jesus was able to perform miracles?????

Muhammed was exactly pro-slavery is the point.

In Christian dominated areas of the world today there is no slavery practiced, not so in areas dominated by islam, although officially banned in most countries, it is still widely practices in moslem countries and furthermore, no high ranking islamic cleric will say it is wrong.

CSVol
Regardless, the most absurd fact of all is that we allowed ourselves to participate in 29 pages of discussion started by gsvol. That alone is redonkulous..

And prescious little of that discussion was on topic at all.

Perhaps you could add a short thesis comparing Jesus and Muhammed??

You could have stopped right there. His account is the only one that did not rely on the Gospel accounts and the letters, and as I stated was written in the First Century.

His account is questionable.

That certainly isn't true, starting with Tacitus.

Tenacious D
I've long awaited making a decision on any particular deity while awaiting an answer to the all-important "slave-owner" question.

I can now move toward.

Not sure what you are moving toward but good luck in your quest.

Back to the comparison of Jesus and Muhammed.

Freedom of choice.

Jesus Christ, Yes, most certainly, each person has a personal choice of whether to believe or not believe and that goes for the children of believers.

Abu al-Qasim Muhammad Ibn Abd Allah Ibn Abd al-Muttalib Ibn Hashim - NO, one must believe or be put to death or in some cases pay an exorbitant special tax that renders one's life to virtual slavery and if one is born of a moslem father then one is neccessarily a moslem and if one chooses to leave islam the the death penalty is proscribed by muhammed's teachings.

 

[therealUT]

That certainly isn't true, starting with Tacitus.

The Annals was written in 116 CE. The selections specifically concerning Christ are disputed, most notably by Cambridge University.

 

[milohimself]

In Christian dominated areas of the world today there is no slavery practiced,

Yeah, about that...

http://www.ciw-online.org/freedom_march/MuseumBookletWeb.pdf

Human Rights Center | Completed Initiatives

 

[CSVol]

And prescious little of that discussion was on topic at all.

Perhaps you could add a short thesis comparing Jesus and Muhammed??

After a few (number to be withheld) margaritas (discovered a new Mexican restaurant and old lady out of town) I believe Jesus to be my path to the afterlife and Mohammed to be the anti-chirst. I still think you're a hate monergering lowlife.

 

[gsvol]

Seaver, The Persecution of the Jews in the Roman Empire.


Happy reading, gsvol.



The places I've met Baptists and Church of God members of the disposition I have described are in the rural areas of East Tennessee, North and East of Knoxville.

Gee thanks, have some particular page numbers???

Here is one quote from the reference you cited:

It is perhaps significant that Agapius, a later chronicler, also reports rioting in Alexandria on the part of the Jews which occurred at about the same time as the Inmestar incident. Some Jews, who had been forcibly baptized, took a statue of Christ and crucified it in the year 411, according to this story, mocking the Christians and crying out, "That is your Messiah!" A riot naturally ensued in which many Jews and Christians lost their lives.217

You do touch on one of my problems with the Catholic denomination, that is; after Christians were persecuted by the Roman Empire for centuries, (and by Jews also btw), the Christians (as we know Catholics to profess to be), were able to achieve political power.

This isn't what Jesus taught if you care to actually read
the four gospels, taking time to think particularly about what Jesus was actually saying.

Once political power is achieved, then it inevitably follows that abuse will occur.

Again, that political abuse is not something taught by Jesus to his followers to practice.

Howsomeever, the Koran is litterally full of such doctrine espoused by muhammed.

Now, do you get the least bit of inkling about what I'm trying to say??



I didn't ask where geographically you met the people you speak of, I asked in what setting??

Was it church, bar rooms, the corner gas station, in what setting and how did you know they were Baptists and what did they say that rubbed you the wrong way??

CSVol
I still think you're a hate monergering lowlife.

Have a couple more, have someone drive you home and sleep it off.

 

[Slydell]

 

[CSVol]

Have a couple more, have someone drive you home and sleep it off.

I'm already home, Glen.

 

[gsvol]

Yeah, about that...

http://www.ciw-online.org/freedom_march/MuseumBookletWeb.pdf

Human Rights Center | Completed Initiatives

I didn't open the second link as I had to download a file and I didn't want to take the time to do that to satisfy some Berkeley marxist. You link some of the most blatent leftist, marxist organizations in the world, are you sure you really want to believe their propaganda??

I notice your leftist Berkeley link mentions 20 cases of forced labor in America. (forced labor and actually owning slaves is different)

Compare that to this:

Half a million African slaves are at the heart of Mauritania's presidential election - Telegraph

BTW, how come the Berkeley propaganda doesn't mention the slave labor camps in the socialist utopia, Cuba???


Your site finishes with the statement:

The United States has broad and stringent laws against all forms of forced labor in addition to the international agreements it has ratified.

You can thank the Judeo/Christian religious tradition more than any other thing for those laws, neither moslems and marxists can take any credit whatsoever, if you will look at their records objectively you will agree.

Additionally for IP: (From the source you reommended)

Perhaps there were also other riots against the Jews in the widely separated portions of the empire at this time. In the year 420 we have a law of Theodosius addressed to Philip, Governor of Illyricum. which protects Jews from attack and prohibits the burning of synagogues, while at the same time warning the Jews not to outrage Christianity. This may reflect a state of active hostility lasting well over a decade:220

And further, no Jew if he be innocent, shall be oppressed nor may any religion make him the victim of evil slander. The synagogues and meeting places of the Jews are nowhere to be burned nor falsely and without reason damaged, since in general, even if someone is caught in crime, for all that the power of the courts and the protection of the public law have been constituted for such matters, providing that no private person is allowed to take private vengeance on his enemies. But while we wish this law to be decreed for the legal protection of their persons, we also decree that they are to be warned as follows:

Let the Jews not grow insolent in any way and, puffed up with confidence in their own security, commit any rash act against the sanctity of the Christian religion.

Although there certainly was some strife, the way you portrayed it seems quite a bit different than it actually happened. (perhaps revealing a bit of your well known anti-Christian bias.)

At least that is what I've found so far, using your source.

Now would you care to compare that particular time to what happened about two centuries later when the armies of islam invaded Egypt??

 

[VOLatile]

GS, have you completely missed where Milo says he tries to go to church whenever possible?

And Berkeley Marxist? Where the hell did you get that from? What about it is socialist?

 

[milohimself]

I didn't open the second link as I had to download a file and I didn't want to take the time to do that to satisfy some Berkeley marxist. You link some of the most blatent leftist, marxist organizations in the world, are you sure you really want to believe their propaganda??

I notice your leftist Berkeley link mentions 20 cases of forced labor in America. (forced labor and actually owning slaves is different)

Compare that to this:

Half a million African slaves are at the heart of Mauritania's presidential election - Telegraph

BTW, how come the Berkeley propaganda doesn't mention the slave labor camps in the socialist utopia, Cuba???


Your site finishes with the statement:



You can thank the Judeo/Christian religious tradition more than any other thing for those laws, neither moslems and marxists can take any credit whatsoever, if you will look at their records objectively you will agree.

Since you're too much of a stubborn, close-minded lemming to simply open a .pdf, allow me to correct you on the first link. It is not authored by some "Berkeley Marxist." It is a group of legal immigrant workers based in Florida. The purpose of their group is organization. My next guess is that you will decry that as Marxist, though you're too ignorant of history or social/economic theory to understand that organized labor necessarily has nothing to do with Marxism or communism, outside of small minor coincidences unless stated otherwise. There are more than enough examples out there of organizations who champion unionized labor and publicly deplore Marxism and communism.

These groups of workers were held against their will on farmland on US soil under threat of physical violence in sub-standard living conditions and sub-standard wages. This happened, the US government recognized that it happened.

That is, by exact definition, slavery. You said there was no slavery in Christian-dominated countries, that is absolutely, 100% categorically false.

Secondly, are you trying to claim one sort of slavery is worse than another? Holding a person for forced labor against their will is what it is.

As for your comment of Marxists or Muslims taking credit for anti-slavery laws in the US, how stupid can you be? Not that I'd expect you to crack any sort of credible history book (which, as you know, are all full of propaganda published by the Marxist-Liberal controlled press), but Marx was still an obscure philosopher in London and had yet to write Capital at the time slavery was outlawed in the US, and Islam had hardly any presence whatsoever amongst the freed population prior to the EP.

I, a free market-loving American born Christian, have read the primary works of Karl Marx and Friederich Engels out of need for both collegiate academic study and personal intellectual curiosity. Since you posture yourself as knowing so much about Marx, what exact commonalities can you point out in his primary works and the work or literature from the UC-Berkeley Human Rights Center? And I'm talking specific, cite-able examples from direct sources. That does not include any interpretations of Marx's work.

I'm all ears, gs.

 

[milohimself]

As far as why they're not in Cuba, you may have missed that little detail about the status of legal travel for US citizens into Cuba. You know, something they'd need to do in order to help prevent the civil rights atrocities that happen there to begin with.

But given your track record, it's forgivable.

 

[gsvol]

I'm already home, Glen.

Sweet dreams. :loco:

One of the accusations against Jesus was that he was a winebibber, meaning a drunkard and that he drank in public houses with commoners.

Over time, the account, in the Gospel of Luke, of the events surrounding Jesus' birth have been proven more and more false.

What has proven to be false in Luke's account??

We do not have documentation from that time, though. We have documentation coming twenty years later; this documentation, as I have already stated, is in no way corroborated by any other independent texts.

Was not Tacitus one of the most respected historians??

Did Tacitus not have access to the Roman records??

Why would he have written that Jesus was put to death if that not indeed happen, how could he achieve the status of most respected historian if he just made stuff up or written of rumors without calling them rumors???

Don't hold my feet to the fire on this but I think he is the only pagan writer to mention Pontius Pilot whose accounts still exist.

You arrogantly brag of being well versed in the use of logic but your statement that there isn't enough evidence to actually say whether or not Jesus ever even existed is straight from the twighlight zone.

In other words you are letting your subjective bias overrided your objective intellectual capacity.

Do you think that muhammed actually ever existed or not??

Provide your empirical proof that Jesus was human.

I'll wait.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

The only physical description of Jesus that does exist is from a copy of a letter from the Roman consul Lentulus to the Roman Emperor Tiberius. This document was discovered in a Monastery with copies of other ancient documents. According to the copy of the letter, the original letter from the consul was dated to the 12th year of the reign of the Emperor Tiberius. Scholars have historical verification that a certain Roman consul named Lentulus was in Judea at the time of Jesus' trial and crucifixion.

Lentulus' letter is presented an official report to the Emperor Tiberius. In his letter Lentulus describes the condemned man named Jesus of Nazareth as having: a noble and lively face, with fair and slightly wavy hair; black and strongly curving eyebrows, intense penetrating blue eyes and an expression of wondrous grace. His nose is rather long. His beard is almost blonde, although not very long. His hair is quite long, and has never seen a pair of scissors.....His neck is slightly inclined, so that he never appears to be bitter or arrogant. His tanned face is the color of ripe corn and well proportioned. It gives the impression of gravity and wisdom, sweetness and good, and is completely lacking in any sign of anger.

Whatever information Tiberius received concerning the strange progress of events concerning the death of this Jew, he was shaken enough to present a shocking suggestion to the Roman Senate. There is some historical evidence to support the claim that Tiberius was so convinced of Jesus' resurrection from the dead that he attempted to have Him declared a "god", but the Roman Senate refused to approve this provincial Jew's admission to the Roman pantheon of gods.

That doesn't prove he was human but he was born of a woman and he took on every aspect of man according the the Biblical record.

 

[gsvol]

GS, have you completely missed where Milo says he tries to go to church whenever possible?

And Berkeley Marxist? Where the hell did you get that from? What about it is socialist?

The site he linked is well known to be very marxist or at least founded and supported by marxists.

Do you equate going to church with being a Christian automatically, I not read any profession of faith by him as of yet.

(Oh, wait, in his next post he takes the name 'Christian.')

Since you're too much of a stubborn, close-minded lemming to simply open a .pdf, allow me to correct you on the first link. It is not authored by some "Berkeley Marxist." It is a group of legal immigrant workers based in Florida. The purpose of their group is organization. My next guess is that you will decry that as Marxist, though you're too ignorant of history or social/economic theory to understand that organized labor necessarily has nothing to do with Marxism or communism, outside of small minor coincidences unless stated otherwise. There are more than enough examples out there of organizations who champion unionized labor and publicly deplore Marxism and communism.

These groups of workers were held against their will on farmland on US soil under threat of physical violence in sub-standard living conditions and sub-standard wages. This happened, the US government recognized that it happened.

That is, by exact definition, slavery. You said there was no slavery in Christian-dominated countries, that is absolutely, 100% categorically false.

Secondly, are you trying to claim one sort of slavery is worse than another? Holding a person for forced labor against their will is what it is.

As for your comment of Marxists or Muslims taking credit for anti-slavery laws in the US, how stupid can you be? Not that I'd expect you to crack any sort of credible history book (which, as you know, are all full of propaganda published by the Marxist-Liberal controlled press), but Marx was still an obscure philosopher in London and had yet to write Capital at the time slavery was outlawed in the US, and Islam had hardly any presence whatsoever amongst the freed population prior to the EP.

I, a free market-loving American born Christian, have read the primary works of Karl Marx and Friederich Engels out of need for both collegiate academic study and personal intellectual curiosity. Since you posture yourself as knowing so much about Marx, what exact commonalities can you point out in his primary works and the work or literature from the UC-Berkeley Human Rights Center? And I'm talking specific, cite-able examples from direct sources. That does not include any interpretations of Marx's work.

I'm all ears, gs.

Actually my computer doesn't download pdfs, thank you.

No actually that ISN'T the very definition of slavery, the definition of slavery is that one person owns another person and may sell or trade them to someone else.

Secondly you give isolated examples that are in violation of the law, I give you in return support of my original statement an example where hundreds of thousands live in slavery and this has been going on for centuries, their ancestors were slaves and their children are born slaves and the religion of islam DOES NOT condemn that.

As for your question about how stupid can I be, well that question is born of a lack of understanding of what I posted far more than my stupidity or lack thereof.

Rather than philosophical kinship with Marx and the UC-Berkeley Human Rights Center, I was talking more about their original connection with communist party members, who, one would think do get much of their philosophy from Marx and Engels.

As far as why they're not in Cuba, you may have missed that little detail about the status of legal travel for US citizens into Cuba. You know, something they'd need to do in order to help prevent the civil rights atrocities that happen there to begin with.

But given your track record, it's forgivable.

We have a thread on Cuba, why not post this there???

But given your track record ........

This thread is, at least supposed to be, about comparing Jesus and muhammed.

Have any thoughts on that topic at all???

 

[therealUT]

What has proven to be false in Luke's account??

The time of the census.

The tradition of releasing a prisoner for Passover.

Was not Tacitus one of the most respected historians??

Did Tacitus not have access to the Roman records??

What accounts of Jesus in The Annals can one not find in the biblical narratives of Jesus? He based his account not on Roman records, that would have most likely offered a detail or two that differed from the biblical accounts.

As I stated earlier, the historicity of Jesus is confined to six writers, none of which wrote anything while Jesus was alive, nor for the next twenty years after.

The only physical description of Jesus that does exist is from a copy of a letter from the Roman consul Lentulus to the Roman Emperor Tiberius. This document was discovered in a Monastery with copies of other ancient documents. According to the copy of the letter, the original letter from the consul was dated to the 12th year of the reign of the Emperor Tiberius. Scholars have historical verification that a certain Roman consul named Lentulus was in Judea at the time of Jesus' trial and crucifixion.

Lentulus' letter is presented an official report to the Emperor Tiberius. In his letter Lentulus describes the condemned man named Jesus of Nazareth as having: a noble and lively face, with fair and slightly wavy hair; black and strongly curving eyebrows, intense penetrating blue eyes and an expression of wondrous grace. His nose is rather long. His beard is almost blonde, although not very long. His hair is quite long, and has never seen a pair of scissors.....His neck is slightly inclined, so that he never appears to be bitter or arrogant. His tanned face is the color of ripe corn and well proportioned. It gives the impression of gravity and wisdom, sweetness and good, and is completely lacking in any sign of anger.

Blonde-haired, blue-eyed Jesus?

This certainly sounds legitimate.

 

[milohimself]

gs, restored things and made minor touch-ups so that we can carry on. feel free to amend or add to your post.

Alright, do I need to break out the dictionary again?

Slavery - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

slav·ery
noun \ˈslā-v(ə-)rē\
Definition of SLAVERY
1: drudgery, toil
2: submission to a dominating influence
3a : the state of a person who is a chattel of another b : the practice of slaveholding

Now need I remind you that a word only has to meet one, not all, of the parameters put forth to be used correctly. It would certainly seem that people held captive against their will in a situation of agricultural would easily fall under the definition of "slavery." Again, if you have issue with this, take it up with the fine folks at Webster's and petition them to amend the entry so that it only refers to the physical ownership of other people.

I was referring to this comment you made, quote:

In Christian dominated areas of the world today there is no slavery practiced,

Let's look at your claim, step by step:
1. Christian dominated areas. The US would certainly qualify under this.
2. No slavery practiced. No, as in an absolute term. Slavery, see definition above.

I brought up a documented, proven example from 2008 where non-criminal US citizens were held on US soil against their will under forced labor conditions. Your response was roughly "la la la la, no there weren't, la la la la." What's next, are you going to tell me the sky is blue?

I see what is going on in Africa, and it is terrible. I'm not aware of any statement from an Islam organization that condemns it, I haven't looked. But the fact is that, IIRC, every nation on Earth has anti-slavery laws. Whether or not they actually enforce them is another matter. It happened on a much larger scale there, but it is happening here as well and I provided for you some documented cases where the US government let it run unchecked.

And what was the deal with the Marxists/Moslems comment from your original post, then? If you knew they had absolutely none and very little (respectively) presence in the US, why even pose it that way? Other than, of course, an opportunity to call out the two groups you carry that huge beef with.

Re: the Human Rights Center, if you have some legitimate documentation (the kind that would hold up in a court of law) showing that its founders were Marxist, I'd read it.

I am merely a bit confounded by your continual confusion of various leftist/progressive socioeconomic ideas and your haste to label them "Marxist" in spite of never quoting a single phrase or original idea that it had in its original context, or legitimate application of the term.

What that tells me is that you've never actually read the original works of a man you contempt so much, and that what you know about him is only what other people have told you. Odd.

 

[milohimself]

As for the thread, just reading and enjoying. I have no taste for theological debate. When done on the basis of logic, the person presenting the popular religion ends up debating in circular logic. It's missing the point.

 

[rjd970]

I can respect somebody just saying "It's my belief, you aren't going to change my mind, I don't care about evidence or lack thereof." It is what it is.

But when evidence, history, and science is used to legitimize someone's religious belief, I like to jump in.