Let's talk about "not punishing those who play in championship games"

#51
#51

Let's talk about "not punishing those who play in championship games"​

Sure, we can talk about it, but if punishing Texas, Dawgs or other losers in Championship Games helps Vols move up and get a home field advantage, than I am all for punishment.

All those in favor of punishment, say aye!!
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The Ayes have it. Motion carries. Commence Punishment!!
 
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#53
#53
volfan102455 said:
And who needs ESPN to stir up thoughts that OSU, Georgia and Texas are better and as such the Vols should not host, which appears to be what some of you really want to happen, I guess because you feel it increases the chances of Tennessee losing so you can go back to complaining about CJH again.

Many of you on here are doing a fine job at making it look like Tennessee doesn't belong and I really don't understand why.

Regardless we'll know this evening if Tennessee is firmly in a hosting spot or still needs help.
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it's called being objective
 
#54
#54
Sin City Vol said:
I think a lot of this boils down to brand bias..Texas and Georgia are gonna bring a lot fans and money to the table. Same with Ohio St, Clemson etc. I think we’re gonna need a few years of non blue bloods winning it all before things change
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Agree with brand bias but the Tennessee brand makes big money too, certainly more than Clemson.
 
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#57
#57
Here is another perspective regarding CG losers that doesn't directly involve us. Say Penn St loses to Oregon, which is likely. Do they stay ahead of Ohio St or get slotted behind them, considering the head to head?
 
#58
#58
HeavenUniversity said:
I wish football conference championship games and conference basketball tournaments would be thrown in the garbage can. It cheapens the regular season, adds to too many games, and decreases the chances kids might actually discover the campus has classrooms and a library.
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This seems a very strange argument to get rid of CONFERENCE championship games in football. Seems much more attuned to arguing against big NATIONAL championship playoff fields, like 8, or 12, or 16.

Conf CG is one game, two teams. Playoffs are 11 games, involving 12 teams. Lot more wear and tear on the players involved and time away from academics.

You kinda flipped this one on its head (for the football component in particular), and it doesn't make much sense that way.

Your argument woulda been better if you had stuck to basketball.

Go Vols!
 
#60
#60
VOLtaism said:
The championship games are wasted effort. Instead of trying to reconcile what happens to the loser just make the championship games the 1st round of the playoffs. Winner moves on, loser is out. Throw in a couple of wild card teams and make them play the same weekend and you have your 6 teams same as now. Leaves out most of the speculation and arguments.
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Their time has passed and CCGs should all be dropped. Crown your champion by a predefined criteria and let's ride.
 
#61
#61
deatojl said:
Here is another perspective regarding CG losers that doesn't directly involve us. Say Penn St loses to Oregon, which is likely. Do they stay ahead of Ohio St or get slotted behind them, considering the head to head?
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This is my concern as well. And why I think if we’re behind OSU tonight there’s virtually no chance of hosting.

They will drop PSU for the L but put OSU ahead due to head to head. Same thing with Texas/UGA. They’ll drop them below OSU/PSU, but not behind Tennessee.
 
#65
#65
deatojl said:
Here is another perspective regarding CG losers that doesn't directly involve us. Say Penn St loses to Oregon, which is likely. Do they stay ahead of Ohio St or get slotted behind them, considering the head to head?
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You'd think the committee would put them behind OSU but the polls might not. But its the committee that matters. it might come down to how bad the loss is... if they get steamrolled they'd definitely drop if its close game maybe not so much?

The whole no punishing losing CCG argument is a double-edged sword. Because the whole narrative has kinda backfired from the chaos of the last few weeks. You're looking at the possibility of the champs of the ACC, Big 12, AAC and Mountain West not even being in the top 12. Pregame. Army and Tulane is actually sort of in the conversation of getting in if they win out... Imagine if Tulane, UNLV and Clemson win out the chaos that would create.
 
#66
#66
VFL-82-JP said:
There is a whole spectrum of viewpoints on what "not punishing" means, when it comes to the CFP Committee and football programs.

At one extreme, the viewpoint is that a team shouldn't drop even a single spot in the rankings, win or lose. But even casual analysis reveals this as untenable. If your team is #1 in the land, but loses to the #6 team in your conference CG, should you remain #1? Of course not. Should you remain above the team that beat you? Probably not. So that means you're going to drop below at least some if not all of the teams in the #2 through #5 spots, as well.

Or say the #2 team in that same scenario wins its own championship. The #1 team loses, you win. Shouldn't you now be the #1 team?

Point is, movement is not only expected based on results of the games, but is absolutely necessary.

~ ~ ~

At the other extreme are those who believe the CFP Committee didn't really mean it. Teams will rise and fall JUST LIKE they do during the regular season. It was all just platitudes.

This extreme, while possible, is unlikely. The Committee has one purpose: to ensure the best teams in the country compete for the national title. But they have clearly added a secondary, social engineering kind of function: to ensure the conference championships continue to have relevance even as the national championship footprint expands. They're not doing too great at that, but it is clearly part of their intent.

~ ~ ~

So what are we really going to see? I think something in between. I think teams who win this coming weekend will rise, and teams who lose will fall. Just not as drastically as sometimes happens.

If it is a close game, I would not expect to see the winner leap over a lot of teams, or the loser to fall very far. Maybe 1 or 2 spots.

And even if it's a blowout, the losing team's fall probably won't be as drastic as it would in the regular season. What would've been 6, or even 8 or 9 spots in October, might only be 3 or 4 after a championship game.

But it won't be nothing, either.

That's where I think we're going. We'll see in less than a week.

Go Vols!
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I think we will see this evolve in the next few years as they try and figure this out. It is all exciting right now and the regular season has been great for ratings, but that will soon change as the SEC(and some big 10) coaches and ADs start realizing that the BYUs and SMU's have a much easier path to the playoffs and the SEC coaches will stop scheduling quality out of conference opponents. This will lead to reduced revenue and interest and then things will start to come to a head....including the conference championship dilemma. Ultimately it's going to come down to undefeated teams being left out of the playoffs because of their weak schedule. Until that happens, they have no incentive to play a challenging schedule. Kiffin hit it on the head in his interview this week. Put some of these teams that are in the playoff discussion in the SEC and they are .500 teams. Right now it's exciting for viewers to see different teams come to the show, but it will be a different story when they start getting blown out in the playoffs and the game is over in the first 10 minutes.
 
#67
#67
deatojl said:
In addition, the "history" involved with the conference championship games started with the SEC in 1992. I know 32 years is a long time but conference champions were decided without a championship game for a lot longer than with them.
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It was like the basketball regular season in that anyone who tied for it got to claim a championship. Even if you lost head to head, if you tied for the best record, you could add a conference championship to your trophy case.
 
#68
#68
I doubt you see teams in conference championship games get dropped from the playoff. Of it does happen it'll likely be a group of 5 team that is 10-12 to start with. But there will have to be movement. If being absolutely donkey stomped in the championship games doesn't move you down, you'll see folks resting starters in it. Losing has to at least hurt your seed.
 
#69
#69
Way to simple to fix it all.... drop the CC games and go from 12 to 32 teams. 12 has always been stupid, take up a week for the CC games and then another week for 4 games while 4 Primadonna's get a bye!!!! Use the same 2 weeks and still end up with the final 8 and WAY more revenue and nobody can bitch about being left out at 33. 16 games and 8 games instead of the CC games and 4 and everybody gets a fair shake with equal games. First 2 weeks on campus and the rest is identical. Could call it December Madness...LOL.
 
#70
#70
If a CCG team is in Top 12 before the game and loses to another Top 12 team, they should remain in top 12, albeit at the bottom. Should a non Top 12 team win, they are seeded and whoever falls out the bottom, falls out the bottom
 
#71
#71
Titans4Vols said:
Conference title games may end up just going out the window sometime in the future. Because while a team dropping because of a loss in the conference title game makes sense because, well, they lost, it equally makes no sense because why should a team be punished for being good enough to make their conference title game while teams not good enough to do that benefit from the loser falling behind them?

You shouldn't benefit because you were worse during the regular season than the team that falls behind you due to a conference title game loss.
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The SEC and Big 10 must beat a playoff team to get the first round Bye. In Boise State’s case, you get a round one bye after beating UNLV. Something doesn’t add up here..
 
#72
#72
GUNTERSVOL said:
Way to simple to fix it all.... drop the CC games and go from 12 to 32 teams. 12 has always been stupid, take up a week for the CC games and then another week for 4 games while 4 Primadonna's get a bye!!!! Use the same 2 weeks and still end up with the final 8 and WAY more revenue and nobody can bitch about being left out at 33. 16 games and 8 games instead of the CC games and 4 and everybody gets a fair shake with equal games. First 2 weeks on campus and the rest is identical. Could call it December Madness...LOL.
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32 teams?? Just going by the coaches poll, that puts Duke, Tulane, Louisiana and 7-5 Michigan in the playoffs. That would make the season a joke.
 
#73
#73
Titans4Vols said:
Conference title games may end up just going out the window sometime in the future. Because while a team dropping because of a loss in the conference title game makes sense because, well, they lost, it equally makes no sense because why should a team be punished for being good enough to make their conference title game while teams not good enough to do that benefit from the loser falling behind them?

You shouldn't benefit because you were worse during the regular season than the team that falls behind you due to a conference title game loss.
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The problem with saying "a team good enough" to be in their conference championship game is totally arbitrary. If Alabama had beaten OU and wound up 10-2 like us and UGA, they'd be playing Texas and you are going to have a hard time convincing me they deserved to be there more than us or Georgia on arbitrary common opponent tie breakers.
 
#74
#74
Carp said:
My only caveat to this is that if a team is in the top 12 in the CFP and plays a top 12 team in their conference CG, then that team should remain in the top 12 regardless of their performance.

Let's imagine for a moment that Clemson didn't lose to USCjr this past weekend. A 2 loss Clemson team could be ranked 11th after today, one spot ahead of Miami, who is the first team out at #12. If Clemson gets trounced by SMU in the title game by 21 points, they shouldn't drop below Miami who is idle.
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Why not? did they play the exact same schedule during the season? Say it is the same scenario but Mizzou made the champ game with their easy schedule ranked #11 and Georgia with their hard schedule is right behind them at #12 and Mizzou gets beat like they stole something in the CCG....

To be clear my issue is with putting blanket rules in place like they shouldn't get bumped out, I understand there are some situations where they shouldn't, the blanket statement is my issue.
 
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