looks like Jazmine is leaving

#401
#401
Coach Jumper said:
I can't pinpoint a spot at this setting, but somewhere in late January I began to take notice of what seemed to me to be holding back. I don't consider she plateaued out, I think it became a battle of wills.

Also,
a note to ALL posters...,
understand!!,, I post as a coach,
not a fan,
so nothing I say is personal, it is my read as a coach per situation,
I read players' body-english, facial reads and what they do once play resumes when they are on the bench
I read effort displayed and reactions from players not involved in the action
I watch the bench as much as I watch the game

I often center on a player and watch them and only them during spans of time during games
I look for dissensions, attitudes, effort, etc.

I do not watch a game as a fan sees is, I watch it from a coaches eyes
and I usually go home and rewatch it a second time and dissect it
Click to expand...
Great post. Exactly what I saw, too.
 
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#402
#402
creekdipper said:
I'm going to miss Jaz's steady hand at the point and seeing more improvement with penetration and mid-range jumpers. Her hesitation at times may have been frustration with the offensive schemes. I certainly don't think she was trying to deliberately sabotage anything. The team's hitting the wall midseason and/or feeling of regression or at least failing to progress rapidly may have led her to start longing for greener pastures. The added bonus of playing with her former teammates may have been tbe final determiner.

Maybe she was frustrated with tbe high turnover rate among other starters, and maybe she was counting on Zaay's help until she learned that Zaay wasn't coming back. She was probably well aware of tbat fact in advance of her own announcement.

It's understandable to read her "give Kellue a chance" statement as half-hearted and not buying in. On the other hand, it could simpky mean that she wasn't immediately jumping ship as many do when coaching changes are made. Whether she was disappointed in her own role or just expected more rapid improvement, only she could say. She likely sees KY as a step up in competition and, as she said, "is doing what's best for me." (At least she didn't refer to herself in tbird person). Anyway, I think she should get tbe benefit of the doubt. She didn't thumb her nose at the program like another recent departure.

I wish we had a fully-commiited Westbrook, a happy Massengill and Collins, and a problem-free, physically-recuperated Z. Green playing together in a disciplined, efficient offense. Maybe if the coaching change had been made a year sooner (which would have eliminated Kellie if her hiring was largely based upon her teams '19 tournament run).

But, to wear out the cliche, it is what it is. The uphill climb is steeper, but now is not the time for faint of heart fans. If we want our athletes to be fully committed, how can we do less and call ourselves fans?

I
Click to expand...
Jazz is as good as she’s going to be. I watched Kellie’s entire last two seasons at M State. She is an excellent coach and HER player achieve beyond expectation. There’s nothing wrong with the coaching. And there really aren’t that many offensive schemes in basketball. Jazz was not a great fit with the other players. I doubt she knew ZAAY wasn’t coming back because I don’t think Zaay knew it until late when she was busted.
 
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#403
#403
LadyOrange said:
First, the team didn’t get worse; we played tougher teams.
Click to expand...

False. They played the same teams, just not nearly as well.

Kentucky: lost by 4 on the road, then lost by 21 on a neutral court in their last game of the season.
Ole Miss: won by 56(!) on the road, won by 11 at home later in the season.
LSU: won by 5 at home, lost by 10 on the road later.
Vandy: won by 9 on the road, won by 4 at home later.

There is a lot of evidence to conclude the team regressed as the season went on, or other teams improved a lot more than Tennessee, or both...
 
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#404
#404
glv98 said:
Thanks for the advice, but no, I have more questions. But you, of course, are welcome to quit talking about it. After you answer this question: what girl that bad mouthed our coach? Are we conflating Evina and Jaz? BC Jaz was very complimentary of KJH and the staff? Why are we making up things about players who leave?

Also, to the poster who says KY is not a very good team, then what does that make us? They absolutely rolled us last time we played.
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We weren’t consistent this season. Sometimes we were brilliant and other times, we played terrible. It was definitely not a constant upward curve in improvement.
 
#405
#405
Lucy said:
I can’t believe we are talking about Evina again but there is something that always struck me as odd there. Does anyone else remember a video interview of Evina shortly after she signed or enrolled I can’t remember exactly. The interviewer asks her about the recruiting process and on campus visits. She says at that time that she wasn’t strongly considering Tennessee but got on campus and then ended up signing. In addition to the kind of impulsive sound of her decision she had kind of an odd expression like, wow, did this just happen. She did not seem upset, more surprised at her own decision. I know the situation went downhill from there. Holly trying to save her job, nagging injury etc. I am not at all saying she didn’t give it her all and I want any young person to be happy (this does obviously not include Geno whom I hope has poison ivy and hemorrhoids.......at the same time) but I have always wondered if she had a bit of buyers remorse from day one. No criticism of Evina whom I really liked but wondered if any one else saw that interview or felt that unease.
Shoot, I meant to put this on the ESPN thread!
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree with you. Too many of these girls are truly not mature enough to make big life choices.
 
#406
#406
Darth_Vol said:
False. They played the same teams, just not nearly as well.

Kentucky: lost by 4 on the road, then lost by 21 on a neutral court in their last game of the season.
Ole Miss: won by 56(!) on the road, won by 11 at home later in the season.
LSU: won by 5 at home, lost by 10 on the road later.
Vandy: won by 9 on the road, won by 4 at home later.

There is a lot of evidence to conclude the team regressed as the season went on, or other teams improved a lot more than Tennessee, or both...
Click to expand...
Improvement doesn’t always happen consistently. One step up, two steps back.
 
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#408
#408
creekdipper said:
I'm going to miss Jaz's steady hand at the point and seeing more improvement with penetration and mid-range jumpers. Her hesitation at times may have been frustration with the offensive schemes. I certainly don't think she was trying to deliberately sabotage anything. The team's hitting the wall midseason and/or feeling of regression or at least failing to progress rapidly may have led her to start longing for greener pastures. The added bonus of playing with her former teammates may have been tbe final determiner.

Maybe she was frustrated with tbe high turnover rate among other starters, and maybe she was counting on Zaay's help until she learned that Zaay wasn't coming back. She was probably well aware of tbat fact in advance of her own announcement.

It's understandable to read her "give Kellue a chance" statement as half-hearted and not buying in. On the other hand, it could simpky mean that she wasn't immediately jumping ship as many do when coaching changes are made. Whether she was disappointed in her own role or just expected more rapid improvement, only she could say. She likely sees KY as a step up in competition and, as she said, "is doing what's best for me." (At least she didn't refer to herself in tbird person). Anyway, I think she should get tbe benefit of the doubt. She didn't thumb her nose at the program like another recent departure.

I wish we had a fully-commiited Westbrook, a happy Massengill and Collins, and a problem-free, physically-recuperated Z. Green playing together in a disciplined, efficient offense. Maybe if the coaching change had been made a year sooner (which would have eliminated Kellie if her hiring was largely based upon her teams '19 tournament run).

But, to wear out the cliche, it is what it is. The uphill climb is steeper, but now is not the time for faint of heart fans. If we want our athletes to be fully committed, how can we do less and call ourselves fans?

I
Click to expand...
Jasmine herself would dispute your first three paragraph
and your fourth is everyone's wish. UT women's basketball is not the Titianic .....we are not a sinking ship
and even that infamous ship had survivor. She jumped ship and not a sinking ship. She quit the course and when every hand was needed on deck. But hey, she can use your post as her alibi and print tee shirt with it , and I still
wouldn't buy it.
Go back and watch the entire season and watch the sellout.
 
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#409
#409
LadyOrange said:
Jazz is as good as she’s going to be. I watched Kellie’s entire last two seasons at M State. She is an excellent coach and HER player achieve beyond expectation. There’s nothing wrong with the coaching. And there really aren’t that many offensive schemes in basketball. Jazz was not a great fit with the other players. I doubt she knew ZAAY wasn’t coming back because I don’t think Zaay knew it until late when she was busted.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of what you say, although we can see if she improves at KY or has peaked. I think Kellie and her staff helped her a lot, and I agree about Kellie's ability. We watched her Mo St teams, too, and they improved tremendously and were very resilientent in the face of adversity.

You're right...I should have said offensive execution rather than schemes.

As far as knowing about Zaay, I think tbeir announcements were only a day apart. And, just as the team was undoubtedly aware of why a high-profile rookie was benched on the overseas trip long before the public became aware, I'd think that Jaz knee about Zaay and her intent to transfer before eitber announcement.

(Which still doesn't mean Zaay's situation had anything to do with Jasnine's transfer).
 
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#410
#410
Prophet1 said:
Jasmine herself would dispute your first three paragraph
and your fourth is everyone's wish. UT women's basketball is not the Titianic .....we are not a sinking ship
and even that infamous ship had survivor. She jumped ship and not a sinking ship. She quit the course and when every hand was needed on deck. But hey, she can use your post as her alibi and print tee shirt with it , and I still
wouldn't buy it.
Go back and watch the entire season and watch the sellout.
Click to expand...

Well, we'll just have to disagree to agree. Eveything you say may be true, but I didn't see the sellout. Different views.

One thing I can agree on...we need totally-committed players. If someone can't get with the program for whatever reason, it's time to step aside. I'm hoping the incoming recruits believe in the staff and their teammates, and then we can judge the results.
 
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#411
#411
Darth_Vol said:
"Better" and "more talented" are different arguments...
Click to expand...
And Rennia win two out of the three arguments.
"more talented" .....Rennia. Her skills has been compared to players like Holdsclaw and Catchings. Talented enough to play all five court position like Parker.
"Better" the verb.......Evina. She's at powerhouse uconn.
under a better coach and staff.
" Better" adjective......Rennia. Three years under her belt.
One of college elite players cited by various resources and awards organizations.
 
#412
#412
creekdipper said:
Well, we'll just have to disagree to agree. Eveything you say may be true, but I didn't see the sellout. Different views.

One thing I can agree on...we need totally-committed players. If someone can't get with the program for whatever reason, it's time to step aside. I'm hoping the incoming recruits believe in the staff and their teammates, and then we can judge the results.
Click to expand...

I believe Coach K is looking for and going after players with higher BB IQs and players that show commitment and determination. She is a coach who uses the term, "urgency",,, a term I like and use myself. I usually follow it with "If you don't do it like you want to do it, then DON'T do it and get out of the way so someone who wants to do it, can do it".

My heart leaped when I saw Tess working out.
I expect more to follow suit.

Coach K is building the right nucleus, we have to give her time.
I still hold Coach to a higher standard, but I think she may reach it.
 
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#414
#414
Coach Jumper said:
I believe Coach K is looking for and going after players with higher BB IQs and players that show commitment and determination. She is a coach who uses the term, "urgency",,, a term I like and use myself. I usually follow it with "If you don't do it like you want to do it, then DON'T do it and get out of the way so someone who wants to do it, can do it".

My heart leaped when I saw Tess working out.
I expect more to follow suit.

Coach K is building the right nucleus, we have to give her time.
I still hold Coach to a higher standard, but I think she may reach it.
Click to expand...
Do you believe that there are many players at the highest level of WCBB NOT working out?
 
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#417
#417
Prophet1 said:
And Rennia win two out of the three arguments.
"more talented" .....Rennia. Her skills has been compared to players like Holdsclaw and Catchings. Talented enough to play all five court position like Parker.
"Better" the verb.......Evina. She's at powerhouse uconn.
under a better coach and staff.
" Better" adjective......Rennia. Three years under her belt.
One of college elite players cited by various resources and awards organizations.
Click to expand...

Yeah I pretty much disagree with all of that. Davis isn't even the most talented player on her team. That distinction belongs to Horston, IMO. But because of Rennia's experience and development, obviously she is the better player right now. And don't get me wrong, Davis is a really good player, but the lack of national buzz and you mentioning her among the likes of Holdsclaw and Catchings should be clues that WE probably overrate her, just as any fanbase tends to look at their players with a biased lens. She has had great moments, but I'm not sure she's a player that can take a team on her back for a deep March run.

And Lady Vol fans don't want to hear it but Westbrook is easily the more talented player of the two with a higher ceiling. Does that mean she will be the better player this upcoming season? Guess we'll see...
 
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#425
#425
Coach Jumper said:
I believe Coach K is looking for and going after players with higher BB IQs and players that show commitment and determination. She is a coach who uses the term, "urgency",,, a term I like and use myself. I usually follow it with "If you don't do it like you want to do it, then DON'T do it and get out of the way so someone who wants to do it, can do it".
Click to expand...

I think agree that she values the things you list more than sheer, unfocused talent (or focus primarily on "me") while still going after the most highly-skilled players who have those qualities. Hopefully, on-court success will breed success, especially by "coaching up" the 3 and 4 stars.

I did want to ask about the "urgency" expression. I love Kellie to death, but I prefer "intensity." To me, urgency can convey needing to get things done quickly (as in final seconds of shot clock, quarter, or game or when tbe team is down by a few points with under a minute left. I guess I just don't associate urgency with being under control, whereas I think you can ( and should) be intense yet controlled the entire game. I associate intense with fierce, focused, and intimidating. I associate urgency with feeling pressure to do something fast...turnovers, anyone?

Of course, urgency can mean "Don't take pkaces off or wait until the last quarter to dial up the intensity."

What do you think?
 
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