Making a Murderer (w/ Spoilers)

#526
#526
Sandvol said:
She was reported missing. Maybe he had looked up her plates or someone else did and he had written them down.
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But why would he need to use the plates to identify the RAV4 when there were no plates on the RAV4 when it was found?
 
#528
#528
The bullet that should have thrown out as evidence. Because the woman that did the DNA profile accidentally contaminated it with her own DNA.
 
#530
#530
SamRebel35 said:
You mean she contaminated it with her own brain matter.
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No, she either touched the bullet or sneezed on it. So her DNA was on it. Meaning there was two sets of DNA found on the bullet fragment.

They allowed it but calls in to question the way evidence was collected and if TH's DNA could have been introduced by handling of other evidence.
 
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#534
#534
PotS said:
But why would he need to use the plates to identify the RAV4 when there were no plates on the RAV4 when it was found?
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He wouldn't. He was just calling in to verify the plate number. Either to make sure he was reading it on the paper correctly, or had transcribed it correctly, or whatever. When someone is reported missing one piece of information is their automobile and it's license plate. Nothing sinister.
 
#535
#535
SamRebel35 said:
Link to the bullet passing through head?
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Read the court testimony of the forensic examiner. She identified one of the pieces of remains as skull with a bullet hole and if I remember .22 caliber. Don't have time to look it up this morning but it is in her testimony.
 
#536
#536
Sandvol said:
Read the court testimony of the forensic examiner. She identified one of the pieces of remains as skull with a bullet hole and if I remember .22 caliber. Don't have time to look it up this morning but it is in her testimony.
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Link to bullet in garage having passed through skull?
 
#537
#537
Sandvol said:
He wouldn't. He was just calling in to verify the plate number. Either to make sure he was reading it on the paper correctly, or had transcribed it correctly, or whatever. When someone is reported missing one piece of information is their automobile and it's license plate. Nothing sinister.
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Why call it in from a phone and not his radio? Was he off duty when he made the call? If so, why call it in when he's off duty.

I would like to see BW's interpretation of this sequence in the trial, because I'm quite certain the documentary made it look worse than it was. In the doc, Colborn had no answer to the question.
 
#538
#538
Just finished the series. Depolorable behavior by Len and his investigator. He should definitely be disbarred.

The cops definitely helped making their case against both Defs. I believe that there was just too much reasonable doubt to convict either. I think they did it, but prosecution didn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt
 
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#539
#539
PotS said:
Why call it in from a phone and not his radio? Was he off duty when he made the call? If so, why call it in when he's off duty.

I would like to see BW's interpretation of this sequence in the trial, because I'm quite certain the documentary made it look worse than it was. In the doc, Colborn had no answer to the question.
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He just didn't remember because it was innocently inconsequential to him. It is just a piece of information among the dozens of pieces of information available to police every day. The defense attorneys and their willing accomplices making the documentary were trying to illuminate these supposed "Aha" moments. The defense attorneys were just trying to do the best jobs they could because the case was such a slam dunk and they really had no case. So, they had to make a theoretical defense up out of whole cloth. The truth was not on their side.
 
#540
#540
Officer Colbourn had been briefed on the situation. Why would he be calling to verify the make of the car and the tag number?
 
#544
#544
PotS said:
Why call it in from a phone and not his radio? Was he off duty when he made the call? If so, why call it in when he's off duty.

I would like to see BW's interpretation of this sequence in the trial, because I'm quite certain the documentary made it look worse than it was. In the doc, Colborn had no answer to the question.
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I just finished with Colborn's testimony. There was a lot of it.

The whole situation where he called in the plate is weird. I have a guess as to what happened based upon the testimony and the evidence, but it is a guess I cannot possibly confirm.

Halbach was reported missing on the morning of 11/3. Auto Trader helped Calumet put together a list of her stops on the day she went missing, most of which were in Manitowoc. Colborn was asked to go out to the Avery property to ask if they'd seen her. He went there, and actually spoke to Steven Avery. The conversation was said to be cordial.

I don't recall the documentary even mentioning this interaction, though I could be wrong. There is a really good reason they didn't show it: Steven Avery lied about having seen Teresa Halbach. He told Colborn he hadn't seen her that day. He later admitted it to investigators, but only after the evidence made it irrefutable.

Anyway, Avery says he didn't see her. Colborn gets back in his car, and according to him, he leaves and goes home as he's now off duty. My guess is that he didn't go home. My guess is that he started doing a warrantless search on the salvage yard. I think he called in Halbach's plate number to make sure he had it right, as he was looking for her car. The timing syncs up nicely with his visit to the yard.

I know the next question will be "Did he find her car that night, during his warrantless search?" My answer: I don't know.
 
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#545
#545
bamawriter said:
I just finished with Colborn's testimony. There was a lot of it.

The whole situation where he called in the plate is weird. I have a guess as to what happened based upon the testimony and the evidence, but it is a guess I cannot possibly confirm.

Halbach was reported missing on the morning of 11/3. Auto Trader helped Calumet put together a list of her stops on the day she went missing, most of which where in Manitowoc. Colborn was asked to go out to the Avery property to ask if they'd seen her. He went there, and actually spoke to Steven Avery. The conversation was said to be cordial.

I don't recall the documentary even mentioning this interaction, though I could be wrong. There is a really good reason they didn't show it: Steven Avery lied about having seen Teresa Halbach. He told Colborn he hadn't seen her that day. He later admitted it to investigators, but only after the evidence made it irrefutable.

Anyway, Avery says he didn't see her. Colborn gets back in his car, and according to him, he leaves and goes home as he's now off duty. My guess is that he didn't go home. My guess is that he started doing a warrantless search on the salvage yard. I think he called in Halbach's plate number to make sure he had it right, as he was looking for her car. The timing syncs up nicely with his visit to the yard.

I know the next question will be "Did he find her car that night, during his warrantless search?" My answer: I don't know.
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You speculatively don't know if he found her car during your speculative warrantless search.
 
#546
#546
bamawriter said:
I just finished with Colborn's testimony. There was a lot of it.

The whole situation where he called in the plate is weird. I have a guess as to what happened based upon the testimony and the evidence, but it is a guess I cannot possibly confirm.

Halbach was reported missing on the morning of 11/3. Auto Trader helped Calumet put together a list of her stops on the day she went missing, most of which were in Manitowoc. Colborn was asked to go out to the Avery property to ask if they'd seen her. He went there, and actually spoke to Steven Avery. The conversation was said to be cordial.

I don't recall the documentary even mentioning this interaction, though I could be wrong. There is a really good reason they didn't show it: Steven Avery lied about having seen Teresa Halbach. He told Colborn he hadn't seen her that day. He later admitted it to investigators, but only after the evidence made it irrefutable.

Anyway, Avery says he didn't see her. Colborn gets back in his car, and according to him, he leaves and goes home as he's now off duty. My guess is that he didn't go home. My guess is that he started doing a warrantless search on the salvage yard. I think he called in Halbach's plate number to make sure he had it right, as he was looking for her car. The timing syncs up nicely with his visit to the yard.

I know the next question will be "Did he find her car that night, during his warrantless search?" My answer: I don't know.
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Still appreciate your research though. This crowd is always looking for something sinister regarding the police when the only sinister person involved in this whole story is Steven Avery.
 
#547
#547
Sandvol said:
You speculatively don't know if he found her car during your speculative warrantless search.
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It's not a leap to believe that a key would be found in plain sight on the 4th search of a small room, but it's a leap to assume that a cop might take a drive around a property rather than heading straight out?
 
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#548
#548
bamawriter said:
I just finished with Colborn's testimony. There was a lot of it.

The whole situation where he called in the plate is weird. I have a guess as to what happened based upon the testimony and the evidence, but it is a guess I cannot possibly confirm.

Halbach was reported missing on the morning of 11/3. Auto Trader helped Calumet put together a list of her stops on the day she went missing, most of which were in Manitowoc. Colborn was asked to go out to the Avery property to ask if they'd seen her. He went there, and actually spoke to Steven Avery. The conversation was said to be cordial.

I don't recall the documentary even mentioning this interaction, though I could be wrong. There is a really good reason they didn't show it: Steven Avery lied about having seen Teresa Halbach. He told Colborn he hadn't seen her that day. He later admitted it to investigators, but only after the evidence made it irrefutable.

Anyway, Avery says he didn't see her. Colborn gets back in his car, and according to him, he leaves and goes home as he's now off duty. My guess is that he didn't go home. My guess is that he started doing a warrantless search on the salvage yard. I think he called in Halbach's plate number to make sure he had it right, as he was looking for her car. The timing syncs up nicely with his visit to the yard.

I know the next question will be "Did he find her car that night, during his warrantless search?" My answer: I don't know.
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The documentary addresses Colburn's initial questioning during episode 7 of the documentary. I only know because I'm listening to a podcast called "The Docket" where Canadian lawyers are breaking down each episode and they just finished that one. The problem these lawyers have with Colburn's testimony is that it was unrecorded and Colburn didn't document Avery's statement in his notes until 8 months after the questioning. If my memory is correct, the documentary also showed a news crew interview with Avery the night Halbach was reported missing. Avery clearly states that she was there and he allowed the police to search his property without a warrant. At that point he didn't seem to think he had anything to worry about.

I'm pretty sure Colburn called in the plates on a later date. I thought he called it in on his day off and that's the reason he gave for using his cell phone instead of his radio. Besides, Avery had given permission to search the property on that first day, so it wouldn't have been thrown out as a warrantless search. Avery didn't start worrying about the police planting evidence until the 8 day search after the Rav 4 was found.
 
#549
#549
bamawriter said:
It's not a leap to believe that a key would be found in plain sight on the 4th search of a small room, but it's a leap to assume that a cop might take a drive around a property rather than heading straight out?
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Not out of the question but still speculative. The more important point you brought up was Avery's lie. That is how police catch people. They fact check your answers and then if you're caught in a lie then you better be able to explain your lie. Avery's problem was that was a pretty big lie. Colburn: "Did you see or talk to Teresa Halbach on October 31st?" Avery: "No."
 
#550
#550
red butler said:
The problem these lawyers have with Colburn's testimony is that it was unrecorded and Colburn didn't document Avery's statement in his notes until 8 months after the questioning.
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Which seems to be par for the course for that idiot.

If my memory is correct, the documentary also showed a news crew interview with Avery the night Halbach was reported missing. Avery clearly states that she was there and he allowed the police to search his property without a warrant. At that point he didn't seem to think he had anything to worry about.
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I think you are remembering incorrectly. I'd have to go back and watch the episode to say for sure, but I don't believe that the news crews got out there until the 4th. While she was reported missing on the 3rd, very little information on the search went public until the 4th.

I'm pretty sure Colburn called in the plates on a later date. I thought he called it in on his day off and that's the reason he gave for using his cell phone instead of his radio.
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No, it was the evening of the 3rd. I double-checked. If you want to confirm, you can look at the trial transcripts. Day 7, beginning at around page 180. And Colborn and Strang both say November 3rd multiple times, so it rules out the possibility that someone misspoke.

Besides, Avery had given permission to search the property on that first day, so it wouldn't have been thrown out as a warrantless search.
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No one asked to search the property on November 3rd. Colborn is the only cop who went out there that day, and there is no testimony that suggests he ever asked for permission to search the property.
 
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