Making a Murderer (w/ Spoilers)

#202
#202
Sandvol said:
I am loathe to sit here and list all of the immutable facts of this case because it would be so time consuming. And, right now I just don't have any more time. You're a smart guy. Please do it. For example, Steve Avery called Teresa Halbach to get her to his home. (fact) She drove to his home. (fact). Many witnesses placed her at his home. (fact) She disappeared after going to Avery's home.(fact). And, continue listing facts along with the evidence (facts). Police planting evidence isn't a fact. Someone else could have done it isn't a fact. Police could have killed her isn't a fact. Disregard anything Dassey confessed. Just the facts of the case make Avery the killer.
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Certainly if the cops find a corpse in your back yard and you were the last person to see her.... you're in trouble. If the police had done a thorough investigation and eliminated all other suspects, I would have little doubt he was guilty. Instead, they planted evidence and coerced a confession to match a crime scene that had zero forensic evidence.

The woman was missing for several days before they even found the vehicle. A couple more til they found the body. During that whole time they didn't even ask the ex-boyfriend or roommate for alibis?
 
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#203
#203
bamawriter said:
No. But you're making assumptions about facts not in evidence. If he was home and saw the fire, even if her corpse wasn't in it yet, why didn't he hear the gunshots that they inflicted post mortem? 22s are pretty loud.

More importantly, why would they carry a still living victim to the garage, but put her in her vehicle after the killing only to transport her basically the same distance to the fire pit? Carrying a seriously wounded person is a heck of a lot harder than carrying a corpse.
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Why would he leave his blood in the car? Why would he not crush the car? Why would he leave the key in his house? Why would he leave the bones laying around in his yard? So many questions like this abound, yet he erased all other DNA of hers from the scene(s). A lot of this does not make sense to a rational person.
 
#204
#204
kev20 said:
Why would he leave his blood in the car? Why would he not crush the car? Why would he leave the key in his house? Why would he leave the bones laying around in his yard? So many questions like this abound, yet he erased all other DNA of hers from the scene(s). A lot of this does not make sense to a rational person.
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That's the issue. I think he was dumb enough to leave his blood and not crush the car. I believe he was dumb enough to leave the bones. Because I believe he was that dumb, there is no way I can believe that his trailer and the garage were the scenes of the crime. There is no way he can be both so great and so terrible and covering his tracks.
 
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#206
#206
kev20 said:
Why would he leave his blood in the car? Why would he not crush the car? Why would he leave the key in his house? Why would he leave the bones laying around in his yard? So many questions like this abound, yet he erased all other DNA of hers from the scene(s). A lot of this does not make sense to a rational person.
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If you read a lot about cases like this it is very typical. A lot of criminals seem to have ADD. They will clean up one area really well and leave evidence in another place inexplicably. Just like the Knox case. If you're interested recommend joining the web site "websleuth.com". See some of their discussions about this and other cases. There are a lot of competing ideas but it is easy to recognize the ones which make sense.
 
#207
#207
hog88 said:
Yet the deer blood miraculously survived the cleaning.

I grant you that it makes sense that Avery killed her and he very well may be guilty but that in no ****ing way was proven in court.
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We don't know how the cleaning went down. We could speculate.
 
#210
#210
Sandvol said:
If you read a lot about cases like this it is very typical. A lot of criminals seem to have ADD. They will clean up one area really well and leave evidence in another place inexplicably. Just like the Knox case. If you're interested recommend joining the web site "websleuth.com". See some of their discussions about this and other cases. There are a lot of competing ideas but it is easy to recognize the ones which make sense.
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Sand in our justice system "making sense" has no bearing on a case. The prosecution is supposed to prove their case beyond any reasonable doubt and no sane person that isn't in fear can say that happened in this case. There is too much that doesn't make sense.
 
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#214
#214
Sandvol said:
That is a fact. But we do know Brendan confessed they cleaned up two areas of blood with bleach. His confession is a fact.
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Were the bleach-stained jeans they picked up from Brendan's house admitted as evidence? I honestly don't know.
 
#215
#215
Sandvol said:
It isn't a fact it was planted.
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A juror pointed out that the dresser Colburn shook furiously to dislodge the key had the same amount of loose change on top in the before and after photos.

If you don't think there's proof evidence was planted, your using a burden of proof that is higher than the one you're using for Steven Avery.
 
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#217
#217
Sandvol said:
It isn't a fact it was planted.
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The Manitowoc Sheriff's Department was supposed to provide material, but not investigative, support to their colleagues in Calumet County. This policy was in place because of the conflict of interest that was unavoidable when a department investigates a suspect that is currently suing them. Despite the policy in place, the most significant pieces of evidence were found by Manitowoc Sheriffs.

Is it an undeniable fact that they planted evidence? No way. But given their conflict of interest, anything they found should have been inadmissable. Otherwise, the presumption of innocence is turned on its head.
 
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#218
#218
red butler said:
A juror pointed out that the dresser Colburn shook furiously to dislodge the key had the same amount of loose change on top in the before and after photos.

If you don't think there's proof evidence was planted, your using a burden of proof that is higher than the one you're using for Steven Avery.
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I'd love to see interviews of all the jurors. I think it was a colossal mistake by the defense not to ask for an outside jury.
 
#219
#219
Sandvol said:
That is a fact. But we do know Brendan confessed they cleaned up two areas of blood with bleach. His confession is a fact.
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Which only applies to Dassey as his confession wasn't used against Steven Avery. Nothing that Branden Dassey said was entered as evidence in the Avery trial.
 
#220
#220
bamawriter said:
The Manitowoc Sheriff's Department was supposed to provide material, but not investigative, support to their colleagues in Calumet County. This policy was in place because of the conflict of interest that was unavoidable when a department investigates a suspect that is currently suing them. Despite the policy in place, the most significant pieces of evidence were found by Manitowoc Sheriffs.

Is it an undeniable fact that they planted evidence? No way. But given their conflict of interest, anything they found should have been inadmissable. Otherwise, the presumption of innocence is turned on its head.
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This, the Calumet deputies are either grossly incompetent or there wasn't any evidence for them to find.
 
#221
#221
red butler said:
A juror pointed out that the dresser Colburn shook furiously to dislodge the key had the same amount of loose change on top in the before and after photos.

If you don't think there's proof evidence was planted, your using a burden of proof that is higher than the one you're using for Steven Avery.
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Brendan confessed to the police that Steve put the "Jeep" key in his dresser drawer. This was before it was publicized. How would he know that?
 
#222
#222
Sandvol said:
Brendan confessed to the police that Steve put the "Jeep" key in his dresser drawer. This was before it was publicized. How would he know that?
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The bookcase that the key supposedly fell from didn't have a drawer. Did Avery move the key at some point?
 
#223
#223
hog88 said:
This, the Calumet deputies are either grossly incompetent or there wasn't any evidence for them to find.
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You can pick apart any case. Look at all the conspiracies about who shot Kennedy. The facts and the evidence say LHO did it.
 
#225
#225
If i knew nothing about the first case and looked at the evidence i would probably think avery did it.The only problem is they already sent him to prison once for something he didnt do.So why would you trust anything they say when they had 8 days to do whatever they wanted to do with the so called crime scene.They proved they are not trust worthy the first time.
 
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