Malinowski murder by ATF

#51
#51
It sounds like cartels at the border get better treatment by our government.

It also sounds like the during these raids they don't do a good job with threat assessment or they don't care. The shame is not only did this guy die because of the way it was handled but an agent did as well. It seems that could have been avoided. Is someone being held accountable for the way this unfolded? The over aggressive behavior was all fun and games until someone got shot. Last, the article makes it sound like they subjected his barely clothed wife to hours in a squad car when she had to use the bathroom.
 
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#53
#53
dalton_vol said:
I understand your point. , you're saying that if you're dead asleep, and you hear your door being broke down what would you do? The power is out, he's probably trying to get his bearings. He obviously didn't realize these guys were ATF. There was no need for the atf to do these tactics. Of course we don't know because no body cams and no sccountabilty. If the guy broke the law, why can't they arrest him at his work, or any other time.

No, they do this to intimidate Americans, especially Americans who enjoy guns and the constitution.
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my answer isn't to grab my bed gun and start shooting. hopefully that isn't your answer either.

as I keep saying both sides created this bad situation. both sides should have done any number of things before the shooting started that would have avoided the shooting. the only difference is that I don't ignore the wrongs of my side when looking at the situation.

it is possible for both sides to be in the wrong.
 
#54
#54
LouderVol said:
my answer isn't to grab my bed gun and start shooting. hopefully that isn't your answer either.

as I keep saying both sides created this bad situation. both sides should have done any number of things before the shooting started that would have avoided the shooting. the only difference is that I don't ignore the wrongs of my side when looking at the situation.

it is possible for both sides to be in the wrong.
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If it had been a robbery he would have been dead anyways if he wasn't prepared to shoot the intruder. You put people in a no win situation with raids like these.
 
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#55
#55
dalton_vol said:
Wood, you're a comedy of ignorance
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What can I say, man, I aim to please. Comedy in its various forms is largely not meant to make sense. Just ridicule, depreciate (even self-depreciate), mock, relieve anxiety, insult, and a host of other things. Me? I'm less about making sense than I about making fun of someone or something, even if I'm the only one pleased with that, so, I aim to please. You want fries with yours? A&W? An Oreo dessert pizza? Maybe wheatgrass juice?
 
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#56
#56
LouderVol said:
my answer isn't to grab my bed gun and start shooting. hopefully that isn't your answer either.

as I keep saying both sides created this bad situation. both sides should have done any number of things before the shooting started that would have avoided the shooting. the only difference is that I don't ignore the wrongs of my side when looking at the situation.

it is possible for both sides to be in the wrong.
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Only one side created this situation. There was zero reason for the ATF to conduct that raid in the manner it was conducted.

If the guy would have shot and killed an agent I would bet everything that he would have been charged with murder (assuming he and his wife survived).
 
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#62
#62
hog88 said:
He knew that he was shooting at an intruder.
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How did he KNOW that? I thought he had just woken up, the lights were off, and there was a loud noise that probably startled and confused him?

If I had a branch break my window during a storm, I guess I should have shot it up too. even if my shots ended up hitting the guy working on the powerline on my property. I would have been shooting at someone (thing) I thought was an intruder.

even though you keep avoiding it, defending yourself and your home doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want to anyone who happens to be in range. He has the right to defend himself, but that right doesn't come without consequences.
 
#63
#63
jaybird_1981 said:
If it had been a robbery he would have been dead anyways if he wasn't prepared to shoot the intruder. You put people in a no win situation with raids like these.
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sure I have no problem with him arming himself. I would do the same.

I am just not going to shoot, and not face the consequences of me shooting. he wasn't just prepared, he actually shot, and it sounds like he came out to great them, so the dead anyway factor ignores that he could have stayed in the bedroom protecting his wife (no idea if he had kids which would change the equation), until he was aware enough to have a better understanding of the situation.
 
#65
#65
LouderVol said:
How did he KNOW that? I thought he had just woken up, the lights were off, and there was a loud noise that probably startled and confused him?

If I had a branch break my window during a storm, I guess I should have shot it up too. even if my shots ended up hitting the guy working on the powerline on my property. I would have been shooting at someone (thing) I thought was an intruder.

even though you keep avoiding it, defending yourself and your home doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want to anyone who happens to be in range. He has the right to defend himself, but that right doesn't come without consequences.
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Hmm, a guy is woken up by the sound of his front door being broken into. Guy grabs gun, guy goes into his living room and sees silhouettes of guys with guns does he A) stop and ask who they are or B) shoots at the strangers with guns that are in his house?

In TN I do have the right to shoot anyone who breaks into my house.
 
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#66
#66
hog88 said:
Only one side created this situation. There was zero reason for the ATF to conduct that raid in the manner it was conducted.

If the guy would have shot and killed an agent I would bet everything that he would have been charged with murder (assuming he and his wife survived).
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pretty sure he did kill an agent. at least hit one. and that Malinowksi shot first.

he created the situation when he likely broke the law. In typical lawyer speak, a whole lot of words to say nothing while also confusing the situation, the lawyer admits his client had previously crossed a fuzzy line that lead to the raid.

that's where it starts for me.

*agent wasn't killed*
 
#67
#67
hog88 said:
Hmm, a guy is woken up by the sound of his front door being broken into. Guy grabs gun, guy goes into his living room and sees silhouettes of guys with guns does he A) stop and ask who they are or B) shoots at the strangers with guns that are in his house?

In TN I do have the right to shoot anyone who breaks into my house.
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like I keep saying, you have that right. but it doesn't insulate you from the consequences of said action.
 
#68
#68
LouderVol said:
pretty sure he did kill an agent. at least hit one. and that Malinowksi shot first.

he created the situation when he likely broke the law. In typical lawyer speak, a whole lot of words to say nothing while also confusing the situation, the lawyer admits his client had previously crossed a fuzzy line that lead to the raid.

that's where it starts for me.

*agent wasn't killed*
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It makes no difference if he broke the law or not, there was zero need for the raid to be conducted in the manner it was. No-knock raids when there is zero reason to believe someone's life is in danger only puts the LE and suspects lives in danger. The guy had every right to fire at the intruders and the people who authorized the raid should be held criminally liable.
 
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#70
#70
hog88 said:
It makes no difference if he broke the law or not, there was zero need for the raid to be conducted in the manner it was. No-knock raids when there is zero reason to believe someone's life is in danger only puts the LE and suspects lives in danger. The guy had every right to fire at the intruders and the people who authorized the raid should be held criminally liable.
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The no knock raid especially in this instance is extremely puzzling. The guy had no priors and based on all reports was a law-abiding citizen leading up to the search. Could have been handled much better obviously.
 
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#71
#71
hog88 said:
And it shouldn't insulate the people who authorized the raid from the consequences of said action.
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never said it did. stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Malinowski's own actions, several of them in the wrong, lead to the result of him being dead. he started it, and it ended with him dead.
 
#72
#72
PEPPERJAX said:
The no knock raid especially in this instance is extremely puzzling. The guy had no priors and based on all reports was a law-abiding citizen leading up to the search. Could have been handled much better obviously.
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Not to mention the fact that the policy for the local LEO that assisted is the body cameras must be worn and on at all times. ATF had them turn their cameras off.

ATF wanted to kill this guy to make an example out of him.
 
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#74
#74
LouderVol said:
never said it did. stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Malinowski's own actions, several of them in the wrong, lead to the result of him being dead. he started it, and it ended with him dead.
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None of his actions during the raid were wrong, minus not killing all of the intruders. Any crime he might have committed before hand is irrelevant.
 
#75
#75
hog88 said:
Not to mention the fact that the policy for the local LEO that assisted is the body cameras must be worn and on at all times. ATF had them turn their cameras off.

ATF wanted to kill this guy to make an example out of him.
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There is a good chance something deeper lead up to the search along with this guy getting shot.
 
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