Malinowski murder by ATF

#203
#203
McDad said:
Another nuance (which may have been discussed earlier), under routine LEO encounters you can ask for name, badge number, call the station and verify they are legit. Anyone think under a tense situation (homeowner armed in a standoff with LEOs in his house) the LEOs would give that information over and wait for the homeowner to verify?

Also, are there instances where people have pretended to be LEOs to gain entry and then committed crimes?
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There was absolutely no reason for the ATF to conduct a no-knock on this guy. No history of violence, no reason to suspect anyones life is endanger, wait until he gets into his car to go to work and serve the warrant in broad daylight.
 
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#204
#204
McDad said:
I disagree with the lawyere's approach that Louder referenced. But that viewpoint it is a fair ask...if you cannot ID a gun, you shouldn't shoot. If you can, why could you not ID marking and badges?

I also agree with others here who take the position, if someone breaks into my home at night the ASSUMPTION is this is a bad person here to do bad things and ultimate defense is viable.
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As @hog88 said, a fake badge is pretty easy to obtain. It's dark, adrenaline is flowing freely and who in the hell knows who has broken into one's house is there legally or not.

I have been in a situation where I thought someone was in the house. You're right, I did not want to shoot anyone and yelled out to get out of the house now as I am armed (ratcheted the bolt on an SKS for good measure). While I'll never know and turned out I do not think anyone was in the house, I believe if I'd seen someone after that, they may have well been in trouble. I had a 30 round mag in one of the most reliable weapons one can have.
 
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#205
#205
hog88 said:
I guess we'll never know if he was an irresponsible gun owner or not.
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Clarify for me...are you saying the previous legal entanglements are inconsequential to the event...or, you don't believe those entanglements are legit...or, something else???
 
#210
#210
hog88 said:
There was absolutely no reason for the ATF to conduct a no-knock on this guy. No history of violence, no reason to suspect anyones life is endanger, wait until he gets into his car to go to work and serve the warrant in broad daylight.
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I would say this was premeditated in every way. They created a situation where the likelihood of someone getting injured or killed was great. They got their wish.
 
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#211
#211
GroverCleveland said:
As @hog88 said, a fake badge is pretty easy to obtain. It's dark, adrenaline is flowing freely and who in the hell knows who has broken into one's house is there legally or not.

I have been in a situation where I thought someone was in the house. You're right, I did not want to shoot anyone and yelled out to get out of the house now as I am armed (ratcheted the bolt on an SKS for good measure). While I'll never know and turned out I do not think anyone was in the house, I believe if I'd seen someone after that, they may have well been in trouble. I had a 30 round mag in one of the most reliable weapons one can have.
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For my 50th my mom and SIL drove down from VA as a surprise (wife knew they were coming), I was asleep in bed when the back porch camera dinged waking me up and I heard someone on the back deck. Jumped up grabbed my stuffed pig and started towards the back door with the wife yelling stop, stop. Met my mom and SIL at the back door naked holding my stuffed pig.
 
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#212
#212
McDad said:
Clarify for me...are you saying the previous legal entanglements are inconsequential to the event...or, you don't believe those entanglements are legit...or, something else???
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I believe they are inconsequential to the event and quite possibly illegitimate.

I have been pretty clear that I fully believe that this was a kill mission from the beginning. He was never going to survive the raid.
 
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#214
#214
hog88 said:
I believe they are inconsequential to the event and quite possibly illegitimate.

I have been pretty clear that I fully believe that this was a kill mission from the beginning. He was never going to survive the raid.
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Based on what I saw, if those facts are basically it.... premeditated murder. They set the whole situation up and even started the coverup before it began.
 
#215
#215
hog88 said:
For my 50th my mom and SIL drove down from VA as a surprise (wife knew they were coming), I was asleep in bed when the back porch camera dinged waking me up and I heard someone on the back deck. Jumped up grabbed my stuffed pig and started towards the back door with the wife yelling stop, stop. Met my mom and SIL at the back door naked holding my stuffed pig.
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Couldn't help it:

1717512104673.png
 
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#216
#216
McDad said:
Another nuance (which may have been discussed earlier), under routine LEO encounters you can ask for name, badge number, call the station and verify they are legit. Anyone think under a tense situation (homeowner armed in a standoff with LEOs in his house) the LEOs would give that information over and wait for the homeowner to verify?

Also, are there instances where people have pretended to be LEOs to gain entry and then committed crimes?
Click to expand...
oh yeah.

the black guy in the military that was shot not long ago. he was carrying because there had been a number of those instances in his area before the real cops showed up at his door.
 
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#217
#217
hog88 said:
For my 50th my mom and SIL drove down from VA as a surprise (wife knew they were coming), I was asleep in bed when the back porch camera dinged waking me up and I heard someone on the back deck. Jumped up grabbed my stuffed pig and started towards the back door with the wife yelling stop, stop. Met my mom and SIL at the back door naked holding my stuffed pig.
Click to expand...
You know board protocol.

Pics or it didn't happen.
 
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#218
#218
hog88 said:
I believe they are inconsequential to the event and quite possibly illegitimate.

I have been pretty clear that I fully believe that this was a kill mission from the beginning. He was never going to survive the raid.
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We are united on no knocks.

I am not prepared to assign conspiratorial assassination intention, though.
 
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#220
#220
LouderVol said:
oh yeah.

the black guy in the military that was shot not long ago. he was carrying because there had been a number of those instances in his area before the real cops showed up at his door.
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Does that change your perspective on the event we're discussing?
 
#224
#224
McDad said:
According to the info, this guy was a bad gun owner and irresponsible in who he sold weapons to.

He didn't deserve to die at the hands of the state because of those transgressions but the responsible gun owners should have no tolerance for the chronically irresponsible owners. They give all of us a bad name.
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I disagree with this approach. I didn't know he was bad and chances are no one else but a few around him did either. That's like saying I need to be responsible for the way you store your guns. Nonstarter. What I am a strong supporter of is sever that warrant during the day when he is home. Find out if he is indeed bad or not and if so, prosecute that SOB to the full extent of the law. That is what I am for. I don't want to be on the wrong end of the ATF just because of the number of guns that I buy and sell in a year. That's simply a gun control excuse.
 
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#225
#225
hog88 said:
I can't help that you are stuuuuupid....
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Pfft. I'm not the stupid one.

If i had the opportunity to shoot my MIL by accident, I would have. You're the stupido magnifico.
 
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