Maurice Couch Tweet

[G8R8U2]

I guess we will see if the NCAA does get involve which I expect they will at some point and if they ever can get someone to talk or enough evidence, which I highly doubt, what they decide if they determine all the players in question were deemed ineligible but yet the schools were unaware. A lot of talk even of the local sports radio here in NC that if schools can demonstrate they were not aware of the agent involvement the punishment would not be as severe for said school.

That's true, the punishment won't be nearly as severe because they won't get hit with FTM and LOIC, which is what cripples programs for long periods.

I don't know why anyone would think they can't obtain enough evidence though; if a Yahoo reporter can get it, the NCAA certainly can... and there's mountains of it already on paper.

In fact, they don't even have to request it from any reporter. I suspect what they'll likely do is use subpoena power to get all those records and justify it by saying they need it to pursue criminal complaints against agents.

One thing all these new state laws regulating professional sports agents has accomplished is that now the involved parties can obtain legal subpoenas for records, receipts, transcripts, transfers, deposits, withdrawals, texts, e-mails, etc., etc..

 

[vol66]

According to the report that anyone can read for themselves, tOSU had to vacate all 2010 games, including the Big-10 title and Sugar Bowl win over Arkansas, because several players who'd received benefits in the form of tattoos and other benefits from the sale/trade of tOSU items played in at least 1 of each of those games throughout the entire season. They were retroactively ruled ineligible.

tOSU got additional sanctions, like LOIC, as did Tressel personally, because once Tressel found out about the problems he lied and tried to cover up those players' wrongdoing.

But the vacating of games happens not as a punishment to the school necessarily, but because the NCAA cannot allow wins to stand when one team uses a player who is no longer an amateur.

I'm trying to understand here. OSU was tipped off that Pryor and others were getting benefits from e-mails sent to Tressel. Tressel didn't report the e-mails, had he done so, the university would have known. In other words, Tressel KNEW he was playing players that were or would likely be ineligible. In addition to the whole tattoo angle, there was also the issue of Pryor's many autos he was seen driving around campus.

 

[vol66]

That's true, the punishment won't be nearly as severe because they won't get hit with FTM and LOIC, which is what cripples programs for long periods.

I don't know why anyone would think they can't obtain enough evidence though; if a Yahoo reporter can get it, the NCAA certainly can... and there's mountains of it already on paper.

In fact, they don't even have to request it from any reporter. I suspect what they'll likely do is use subpoena power to get all those records and justify it by saying they need it to pursue criminal complaints against agents.

One thing all these new state laws regulating professional sports agents has accomplished is that now the involved parties can obtain legal subpoenas for records, receipts, transcripts, transfers, deposits, withdrawals, texts, e-mails, etc., etc..

The NCAA does not have the power to subpoena anyone.

 

[TideWarrior]

That's true, the punishment won't be nearly as severe because they won't get hit with FTM and LOIC, which is what cripples programs for long periods.

I don't know why anyone would think they can't obtain enough evidence though; if a Yahoo reporter can get it, the NCAA certainly can... and there's mountains of it already on paper.

In fact, they don't even have to request it from any reporter. I suspect what they'll likely do is use subpoena power to get all those records and justify it by saying they need it to pursue criminal complaints against agents.

One thing all these new state laws regulating professional sports agents has accomplished is that now the involved parties can obtain legal subpoenas for records, receipts, transcripts, transfers, deposits, withdrawals, texts, e-mails, etc., etc..

Actually that has already been discussed with yahoo and other news outlets. The NCAA can not subpoena bank records or texts. They also can not use any thing from the Yahoo report. One of the reasons I think C Robinson(Yahoo reporter) is doing this to prove the NCAA has no power to stop anything. He was the one that broke the story and had all the evidence on Miami. Gave it to the NCAA and their rules require them to find it on their own and since they could not subpoena most of the hard evidence they could find very little.

I will also see if I can pull it up because the NCAA ran into this issue recently with the same type of issue in MS who was prosecuting under the same laws. The NCAA has no legal authority and the courts have determined they are not privy to any documents in a criminal case nor do they have the power to obtain such documents. The courts see them no different than some national organization whose only power to govern their organization.

 

[G8R8U2]

I'm trying to understand here. OSU was tipped off that Pryor and others were getting benefits from e-mails sent to Tressel. Tressel didn't report the e-mails, had he done so, the university would have known. In other words, Tressel KNEW he was playing players that were or would likely be ineligible. In addition to the whole tattoo angle, there was also the issue of Pryor's many autos he was seen driving around campus.

They vacated all games in which an ineligible player participated, even the ones played prior to Tressel being "tipped off".

And according to Tressel, when he was first made aware of the problem, their own compliance people didn't suggest to him that what they knew even rose to the level of being NCAA violations.

You're getting too caught up in the punishment angle. It's not a punishment to the school for their own wrongdoing; vacating games because of ineligible players is an amateurism issue and is done more as a way to be fair to the opponents of the team using ineligible players.

They're not saying the school intentionally cheated, so they're taking wins away; but at the same time, what they're saying is it's not fair to allow a team to keep wins when they used an "illegal" player or players, aware of it or not.

 

[vol66]

Actually that has already been discussed with yahoo and other news outlets. The NCAA can not subpoena bank records or texts. They also can not use any thing from the Yahoo report. One of the reasons I think C Robinson(Yahoo reporter) is doing this to prove the NCAA has no power to stop anything. He was the one that broke the story and had all the evidence on Miami. Gave it to the NCAA and their rules require them to find it on their own and since they could not subpoena most of the hard evidence they could find very little.

I will also see if I can pull it up because the NCAA ran into this issue recently with the same type of issue in MS who was prosecuting under the same laws. The NCAA has no legal authority and the courts have determined they are not privy to any documents in a criminal case nor do they have the power to obtain such documents. The courts see them no different than some national organization whose only power to govern their organization.

This is correct. One has to look no further than the Manziel case. The autograph broker said he paid him whatever it was. then he said I like Johnny, I'd like to see him play, I won't be talking to the NCAA. JM said he didn't take money when interviewed, that's it.

 

[Manvol]

yeah maybe I sound harsh, but I have zero sympathy, every athlete knows damn well the consequences of taking money long before they EVER EVER EVER set foot on a campus, ultimately this is purely selfish behavior and shows they care more about this money then doing what is right for the team.

The posts talking about how he should have kept quiet, and make them prove the guilt, and or the need for players to keep their stories straight is Fing disturbing and says a hell of a lot about those that posted it, and the state of morals in this country. Weak, pathetic, and dishonorable.......Couch did the right thing to apologize, but that DOES NOT make this right, it's the first step though, and I will give him respect for at least being more of a man than many who post here, but he and the other players caused this mess....and making it right may or may not ever be possible. There are repercussions when you knowingly decide to put your greed before your team and brothers...

Thanks for apologizing, but no...it's hardly a fix.

Johnny football begs to differ. Get 7k all cash for autographs and still play and only lose a half of football against a nobody team..yeah the rules my arse..

 

[G8R8U2]

Actually that has already been discussed with yahoo and other news outlets. The NCAA can not subpoena bank records or texts. They also can not use any thing from the Yahoo report. One of the reasons I think C Robinson(Yahoo reporter) is doing this to prove the NCAA has no power to stop anything. He was the one that broke the story and had all the evidence on Miami. Gave it to the NCAA and their rules require them to find it on their own and since they could not subpoena most of the hard evidence they could find very little.

I will also see if I can pull it up because the NCAA ran into this issue recently with the same type of issue in MS who was prosecuting under the same laws. The NCAA has no legal authority and the courts have determined they are not privy to any documents in a criminal case nor do they have the power to obtain such documents. The courts see them no different than some national organization whose only power to govern their organization.

The NCAA can't do those things to conduct an NCAA investigation, true; but to cooperate in a criminal investigation with state authorities they would certainly be privy to all those records.

In fact, you, me, and every other average Joe in the country would have access to all those records, once obtained, under state Freedom Of Information acts/laws.

I can go down to my local courthouse right now and read every single document filed in any case in the county/city; provided it wasn't sealed by the judge, which is quite rare.

 

[TideWarrior]

Tressel knew before and wins were vacated after he knew not before. So a big difference here. He knew and still played them. The NCAA did not vacate wins prior to his knowledge only all the wins in the 2010 season after he was told.

Tressel found out in April 2010 that his players were taking improper benefits from a local tattoo parlor owner. Despite contractual and NCAA obligations to report it, he didn't tell anyone at the university or the NCAA for more than nine months. And what was just a five-game suspension for five players suddenly blossomed into a major violation that included a coach knowingly playing ineligible players throughout the 2010 season.

Ohio State Buckeyes vacate wins from last football season - ESPN

 

[vol66]

They vacated all games in which an ineligible player participated, even the ones played prior to Tressel being "tipped off".

And according to Tressel, when he was first made aware of the problem, their own compliance people didn't suggest to him that what they knew even rose to the level of being NCAA violations.

You're getting too caught up in the punishment angle. It's not a punishment to the school for their own wrongdoing; vacating games because of ineligible players is an amateurism issue and is done more as a way to be fair to the opponents of the team using ineligible players.

They're not saying the school intentionally cheated, so they're taking wins away; but at the same time, what they're saying is it's not fair to allow a team to keep wins when they used an "illegal" player or players, aware of it or not.

No I'm not. If all we have to worry about is the NCAA vacating our wins that Couch has participated in, lol...I'm even less worried.

Directly from the NCAA report:

The committee also found the former head coach concealed these NCAA violations when he was notified of the situation, which led to his unethical conduct finding.

“Of great concern to the committee was the fact that the former head coach became aware of these violations and decided not to report the violations to institutional officials, the Big Ten Conference or the NCAA,” the committee stated in its report.

Specifically, the committee noted that the former head coach had at least four different opportunities to report the information, and his failure to do so led to allowing several football student-athletes to compete while ineligible. Many of these student-athletes were key contributors to the team’s winning 2010 season.

emphasis mine.

 

[G8R8U2]

Johnny football begs to differ. Get 7k all cash for autographs and still play and only lose a half of football against a nobody team..yeah the rules my arse..

Manziel certainly gave a blueprint of how to do it successfully.

Simply take cash hand-to-hand and there's nothing to find.

The instant you use a computer, phone, bank, or financial institution to wire or transfer money from one person to another, or discuss money changing hands, there's a permanent record of that somewhere, and you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to know where to look or obtain the information.

 

[G8R8U2]

No I'm not. If all we have to worry about is the NCAA vacating our wins that Couch has participated in, lol...I'm even less worried.

Directly from the NCAA report:

The committee also found the former head coach concealed these NCAA violations when he was notified of the situation, which led to his unethical conduct finding.

“Of great concern to the committee was the fact that the former head coach became aware of these violations and decided not to report the violations to institutional officials, the Big Ten Conference or the NCAA,” the committee stated in its report.

Specifically, the committee noted that the former head coach had at least four different opportunities to report the information, and his failure to do so led to allowing several football student-athletes to compete while ineligible. Many of these student-athletes were key contributors to the team’s winning 2010 season.

emphasis mine.

Yes, I read it and saw that. It doesn't contradict anything I've said.

That's why he got the sanctions he got and why tOSU got more severe penalties.

The reason the games were vacated is because they used ineligible players in them; not becuase Tressel knew later on that he was using ineligible players.

 

[truevol8]

I truly hope you aren't serious.

NO,IM not serious. Since I was called a jackass and an idiot I was looking for smarta$$. Just think this thread has got out of hand. Nobody knows what he took the money for and suspicious rumors went rapid about feeding his child. Like I said before he made a mistake and it was a stupid one but we cant go back and change what has happened. He apologized and will have to accept what the punishment will be. Everybody needs to chill out and get the cold ones ready for the upset that is getting ready to happen( I hope).

 

[Biopsyman]

Who really bought lunch?

 

[vol66]

Yes, I read it and saw that. It doesn't contradict anything I've said.

That's why he got the sanctions he got and why tOSU got more severe penalties.

The reason the games were vacated is because they used ineligible players in them; not becuase Tressel knew later on that he was using ineligible players.

I'll try one more time. As Tide Warrior posted, the e-mails Tressel received were BEFORE the 2010 season.

If the coach had reported the e-mails, the school would have reported to the conference, the conference to the NCAA or some such. The school would have suspended the players if they did the right thing. Had they suspended the players and the NCAA deemed them ineligible there would not have been any vacated wins.

 

[G8R8U2]

The school does not have to be in on it, complicit in it, or even aware of it to vacate games.

The school would have to be complicit or aware of it to get real, additional sanctions beyond vacating wins.

 

[vol66]

In the USC case...there's that phrase "knew or should have known."

Said the report, “[McNair] knew or should have known that [Bush] and [New Era Sports marketing agents] were engaged in violations that negatively affected [Bush’s] amateurism status. The assistant football coach provided false and misleading information to the enforcement staff concerning his knowledge of [the marketing agents’] activity and also violated NCAA legislation by signing a document certifying that he had no knowledge of NCAA violations.”

 

[G8R8U2]

I'll try one more time. As Tide Warrior posted, the e-mails Tressel received were BEFORE the 2010 season.

If the coach had reported the e-mails, the school would have reported to the conference, the conference to the NCAA or some such. The school would have suspended the players if they did the right thing. Had they suspended the players and the NCAA deemed them ineligible there would not have been any vacated wins.

I understand what you're saying; but let me see if I can help you understand what I'm saying.

Say Tressel, nor anybody else at tOSU, was ever made aware of the problem at all, and all those guys still played.

Once it was found out, tOSUwould still have to vacate all those wins in which those players participated; even if nobody in a leadership position was aware of it beforehand.

The NCAA report is simply saying it was particulary troubled about the actions of Tressel, and those actions are responsible, in part, for the severe sanctions.

It's not saying the games are being vacated solely because of Tressel's actions, and that if he'd never known about it they'd have been able to keep those wins.

The wins are vacated because of ineligible participation, not becuase somebody was aware of ineligible participation.

 

[G8R8U2]

In the USC case...there's that phrase "knew or should have known."

Said the report, “[McNair] knew or should have known that [Bush] and [New Era Sports marketing agents] were engaged in violations that negatively affected [Bush’s] amateurism status. The assistant football coach provided false and misleading information to the enforcement staff concerning his knowledge of [the marketing agents’] activity and also violated NCAA legislation by signing a document certifying that he had no knowledge of NCAA violations.”

Yep, that's why they got hammered as hard as they did; with years of probation and severe reduction of scholarships... those penalties are above and beyond the vacating of wins.

And the same will likely be said of D.J. Fluker; he wasn't some scrub, he was a high-profile, 1st-round draft pick type of player too.

The NCAA said programs with those kinds of players have a greater responsibility to monitor their behaviors and actions because of their marketability.

Not sure that's a fair standard, but that's what they said.

 

[vol66]

Welp, as I said...I think we are a long, long way from anything remotely close to the cases you bring up.

This doesn't even reach Dez Bryant status because it appears the school and the player are both taking action, the suspension and assuming the NCAA asks, Couch seems willing to tell the truth.

Unless there's more to it, based on previous cases I'm hoping he serves a few game suspension and pays back the money to charity.

 

[sanddune50]

I'm proud of how Mo, our coaches, and our fanbase have handled this so far. I wish he'd never made the mistake to begin with but such a small amount says a lot, especially knowing he has a wife and child he's trying his darndest to care for (I don't know anyone alive who wouldn't do all they could to keep their baby in diapers, food, a roof etc.) Mo apologized publicly to his team, family and all of us. Contrast that to Manziel or Fluker who bragged about it until claiming his twitter was hacked? I can't remember the last time a college football player who did something wrong responded the way Mo Couch has.

The NCAA needs to set an example here: the right kind of example. Show us that circumstances matter, that honesty matters, that character does count for something when so many others lie their way out of things -- the NCAA has been thrown a softball and can do just that. We need to believe that it's simply not a matter of the 'best cheat wins' or the most popular star gets overlooked.

I'm saddened by this, mainly for Mo but I hope and pray he can come back from this. He deserves a chance to make things right.

Well said.

 

[Gruuden]

taking care of his family is never the wrong thing

Do you really think he took that money and took care of his family? REALLY???? That one mistake might have cost him millions.I like MO but I hate cheaters more. People like him is what got us in trouble in the first da** place. And what kind of dumb as* agent pays Tyler Bray? lol dude was terrible. We have had some real winners run thru the T.. Darick, mo, janzen, etc. People got talent runnin out their ears and they have the sense of a 3 year old. makes me sick. Im a father of 6 and I work very hard for what I have, but if I ever had a chance to make millions PLAYING IN THE DIRT, I promise I wouldnt screw it up by doing something as boneheaded as what some of these jokers do. GBO

 

[YorkVol]

"Free Mo'Zilla!"

can someone start printing t shirts?

 

[AJeray4TN]

You guys know there's a game today, right?

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

According to the report that anyone can read for themselves, tOSU had to vacate all 2010 games, including the Big-10 title and Sugar Bowl win over Arkansas, because several players who'd received benefits in the form of tattoos and other benefits from the sale/trade of tOSU items played in at least 1 of each of those games throughout the entire season. They were retroactively ruled ineligible.

tOSU got additional sanctions, like LOIC, as did Tressel personally, because once Tressel found out about the problems he lied and tried to cover up those players' wrongdoing.

But the vacating of games happens not as a punishment to the school necessarily, but because the NCAA cannot allow wins to stand when one team uses a player who is no longer an amateur.

Vacating wins is a slap on the wrist. Don't think for one minute that OSU doesn't still claim that Big 10 championship, or the Sugar Bowl win. Everybody saw the game and knows who won it despite what the NCAA says.