Maybe the problem isn't with Jay Graham, Tee Martin, Vonn Bell...

Also, when you're left a team that just went 7-0 in conference, it's not that difficult and certainly not impossible to maintain a conference record better than 12-9.

He wasn't left a team that just went 7-0 in conference. He was left a fairly decimated team the year after, one that he had to rebuild.

One thing that has been overlooked by nearly everyone in regards to UC's issues this season (CBJ's first at UC) is the general lack of experience and depth, on both sides of the ball. The thing that separates good programs from the great is depth, particularly up front on both lines. The bottom line is that UC doesn't have much in the way of depth on the offensive and defensive lines.

Kelly recruited better than Dantonio did before him, very few people can really argue the point when talking of classes taken in their totality. But Kelly really sucked at recruiting defense, particularly defensive line players. He had a lot of success early on with the gifts he was given on the defensive line. His first roster was stacked on the defensive line, Angelo Craig, Anthony Hoke, Adam Hoppel, Terrill Byrd and Lemonte Nelms formed the core of that first unit. As those guys began to graduate he needed to find play makers on the D-Line so he flipped Connor Barwin from TE to DE, which worked out pretty well for all parties. But switching players became a case where Brian Kelly became infatuated with his own abilities. He believed that he could find defensive difference makers on his roster, so he for all intents and purposes stopped recruiting defensive linemen. In Kelly's last two classes he recruited a total of 14 DL prospects, just four in his last class, of which 7 remain on the D-Line and only 1, Jordan Stepp, is a part of the rotation currently. The remainder have either left the team, or moved over to the offensive line where they aren't providing much in the way of depth or help. That is a terrible attrition rate for a position group. Compounding the problem is the fact that most of Kelly's D-Line recruits were long term projects that need a few more years in the weight room before they can help out in a meaningful way. To sum up Kelly thought that the best way forward was to try to continue to make difference making defensive linemen like he did with Barwin instead of going out there are looking for them. As a result he reached on a lot of players who were borderline BCS recruits thinking he could coach and train them up to get them to perform at a high level. Needless to say that was an ill fated strategy, one that Jones has had to pick up the pieces of, with the predictably terrible results.


Depth on the Lines, Why It Is An Issue now - Down The Drive



:hi:
 
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Throughout my postmortum on the Bowl-less campaign of 2010 a couple of themes have begun to make their presence know. First among them is the stunning lack of general depth on the roster, while this deficit is visible at all positions, it is along the lines, both offensive and defensive where this issue came to bear most emphatically.


The biggest issue with the defensive line last year, in my opinion at least, was a catastrophic lack of depth, and that was something that became apparent pretty early in the season.

But where Kelly knew, in great detail, what he wanted from his offensive guys, he was pretty much clueless when it came to evaluating defensive talent, particularly along the defensive line. Kelly isn't a defensive coach, or at least he hadn't been in two decades when he walked onto campus. So it shouldn't be that surprising that he was out of his depth when it came to evaluating and projecting defensive talent. What Kelly had done for most of his tenure at Grand Valley State and Central Michigan was to just recruit frames. He would get these tall, lean, athletic kids lock them in the weight room wait for a couple of years then stick them on the defensive line and expect results. The truth of the matter is that you can only get away with that for so long. There are mitigating factors, like having multiple defensive coordinators and a change in scheme that constantly shifted what the coaches were looking for in a prospect. The bottom line though is that Kelly reached on a lot of defensive line prospects, he certainly didn't recruit that position group at a BCS level. He reached on a lot of kids, most of whom are likely to be back ups at best going forward.

By the end of the year the lack of talent and depth was just too much. The defensive line was absolutely gassed by the end of the year. We all saw it live, but just for a refresh here is Jordan Todman running roughshod over a battered and broken UC defensive line.

Grading The Defensive Line - Down The Drive
 
I wouldn't call their Cincinnati tenures "close," considering that Kelly went 34-6 (17-4) and took them to 2 straight BCS bowls. I do think Jones did well at Central Michigan.

If you want my more detailed thoughts on his tenure(s), they're right here: http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-football/184365-butch-numbers.html

Thanks for the link. That is a great analysis.

Touting the co-co and co-co-co- (is that enough cos?) championships kind of reminds me of folks arguing the co-cos of majors against fulmer's outright SEC titles.
 
And BTW I was not commenting that they were close per Cincy, obviously not. What I was saying was that looking at their overall combined records at the 2 gigs they have in common, plus tossing recruiting records into the mix, they do not seem that far apart.
 
I definitely would want someone coaching my team that managed to get beat by Vandy by three touchdowns.

That indictment of Dooley aside, he is a career loser. He never should have been on The Hill in the first place.

Hey bud I don't go on ur teams site talking like I know what's best for ur school so don't you dare come and tell me who should or shouldn't be on The Hill. Understand me?? Cause you have no f'in clue what u r talking about. So don't ever respond to me or any other acting as if you know what is best for my school.
 
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When your future is at stake, putting your eggs into Tennessee's basket right now is a risky proposition. I can't blame people for choosing what they feel are safer paths. Until he proves it on the field, CBJ is nothing but talk. I really doubt that anyone leaving or choosing to not come here were because of him personally.We lost coaches and recruits recently to USC, FSU, Auburn, and Urban Meyer. Maybe JG was ticked about being lower on the totem pole than he thought he should be. It's debatable . But the logical reason had to be about job security. Right now, FSU is a better job by a comfortable margin. Just relax and see what BJ has in store for us . I think we will be pleasantly surprised with where we stand this time next year.
 
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Hey bud I don't go on ur teams site talking like I know what's best for ur school so don't you dare come and tell me who should or shouldn't be on The Hill. Understand me?? Cause you have no f'in clue what u r talking about. So don't ever respond to me or any other acting as if you know what is best for my school.

I have an opinion just like you have an opinion. If you don't like what I have to say, click "ignore". If you were content with having a career loser drive your storied program further into the ground, that's fine. He was destroying UT football, though.
 
Thanks for the link. That is a great analysis.

Touting the co-co and co-co-co- (is that enough cos?) championships kind of reminds me of folks arguing the co-cos of majors against fulmer's outright SEC titles.

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I have an opinion just like you have an opinion. If you don't like what I have to say, click "ignore". If you were content with having a career loser drive your storied program further into the ground, that's fine. He was destroying UT football, though.

U responded to my post. I've ignored you up this pt, cause your opinion means nothing to me. But don't come into my circle to tell what's best cause you don't know. I don't care what your opinion is cause frankly it does not matter. UT isn't your team so know ur role. Like I said I wouldn't go onto ur teams site and give someone my opnion as if I know what's best for it out of respect. Cause that's not my place. Throwing around phrases like "on The Hill" as if you know what that means isn't going to fly with me.

Ur team has some recent success and now you r going to tell me what's best for my team??? Give me a break. Go back to the kiddie table. If you think the guy was destroying the team u have now clue what you r talking about and clearly only getting your info and forming your opinion off of what people on sites like this have to say.

If you weren't reared well enough to understand when to and where to speak then it's not to late to learn. Stick to the facts and ask questions. But opinions like this one keep to yourself. I'll call out fans and alums for talking down the program so I'm not gonna be afraid to call out a fan of another team that doesn't understand his place.
 
U responded to my post. I've ignored you up this pt, cause your opinion means nothing to me. But don't come into my circle to tell what's best cause you don't know. I don't care what your opinion is cause frankly it does not matter. UT isn't your team so know ur role. Like I said I wouldn't go onto ur teams site and give someone my opnion as if I know what's best for it out of respect. Cause that's not my place. Throwing around phrases like "on The Hill" as if you know what that means isn't going to fly with me.

Ur team has some recent success and now you r going to tell me what's best for my team??? Give me a break. Go back to the kiddie table. If you think the guy was destroying the team u have now clue what you r talking about and clearly only getting your info and forming your opinion off of what people on sites like this have to say.

If you weren't reared well enough to understand when to and where to speak then it's not to late to learn. Stick to the facts and ask questions. But opinions like this one keep to yourself. I'll call out fans and alums for talking down the program so I'm not gonna be afraid to call out a fan of another team that doesn't understand his place.

Yeah, you're right, you have a special right to use this website that other people don't have. This entire post is garbage.
 
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U responded to my post. I've ignored you up this pt, cause your opinion means nothing to me. But don't come into my circle to tell what's best cause you don't know.


Again, if you truly "don't care" about what I have to say, then click ignore or simply don't respond. It's not difficult.


I don't care what your opinion is cause frankly it does not matter. UT isn't your team so know ur role.

Know my role? How old are you?


Like I said I wouldn't go onto ur teams site and give someone my opnion as if I know what's best for it out of respect. Cause that's not my place.


Giving one's opinion does not equate to "knowing what's best".


Throwing around phrases like "on The Hill" as if you know what that means isn't going to fly with me.

Again, nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to respond or read what I post. If you're too stupid to ignore, that's your problem.


Ur team has some recent success and now you r going to tell me what's best for my team??? Give me a break. Go back to the kiddie table. If you think the guy was destroying the team u have now clue what you r talking about and clearly only getting your info and forming your opinion off of what people on sites like this have to say.


He WAS destroying the program. Idiots like you that claim membership to the "I will support whoever coaches UT" club are part of the reason UT has been allowed to fall into mediocrity. If you accept mediocrity, that is what you will receive.


If you weren't reared well enough to understand when to and where to speak then it's not to late to learn. Stick to the facts and ask questions.

Here are some facts:
Dooley has a losing record as a head coach.
He led UT to consecutive losing seasons.
He led UT to their first loss to UK in almost thirty years.
He led UT to a three touchdown drubbing at Vandy.

But opinions like this one keep to yourself. I'll call out fans and alums for talking down the program so I'm not gonna be afraid to call out a fan of another team that doesn't understand his place.

Again, this goes back to the point I made earlier in this post. Members of the Orange Overalls crowd, like yourself, will blindly support any dumbass that UT hires (such as Dooley). This is part of the problem. Until you demand change (which you all finally got, thankfully for the UT fans that aren't content with mediocrity), you will wallow in mediocrity.

Thanks for playing.
 
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Yeah, you're right, you have a special right to use this website that other people don't have. This entire post is garbage.

Did I say the guy didn't have the right to use the site?? I told the guy not come on here and tell me what is or isn't best for the school I support as if his opinion matters. It's a pretty simple matter of respect.

If you don't understand the difference that's your problem. But knowing you I wouldn't put it past you for doing the same on other team sites. Im just not a loser that feels trolling other teams sites is cool like u and the cock lover.
 
Thanks for playing.

Thanks for playing what?? No one invite you to play so what does your opinion matter. For goodness sake your team has barely sniffed winning and you r going to come on here and act like you know what it takes??? Please stop wasting my time and stop acting like spending all your time on a rivals site makes you cool.
 
Thanks for playing what?? No one invite you to play so what does your opinion matter. For goodness sake your team has barely sniffed winning and you r going to come on here and act like you know what it takes??? Please stop wasting my time and stop acting like spending all your time on a rivals site makes you cool.

You take the internet way too seriously.
 
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You take the internet way too seriously.

Ok bud :good!: Coming from the guy that has so much time on his hands he has to spend so much of it on another teams site. Nice life bud. :hi:

This isn't about just Internet talk. It's about you thinking I, a UT alum, needs to listen or understand your opinion as if you have any clue about what's best for my school. I'm also not one of these people that believes that MSG boards don't make a difference cause it does. So not going to let u troll.
 
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Ok bud :good!: Coming from the guy that has so much time on his hands he has to spend so much of it on another teams site. Nice life bud. :hi:


I have a pretty blessed life.


This isn't about just Internet talk. It's about you thinking I, a UT alum, needs to listen or understand your opinion as if you have any clue about what's best for my school.


Honest question: can you read? No where have I stated that what I am saying is the best thing for UT. I've stated multiple times that it is simply my opinon. However, I have given facts to back up my position. You have yielded nothing but unintelligible babble.

I'm also not one of these people that believes that MSG board don't make a difference cause it does. So not going to let u troll


This simply isn't true. What is said on a message board in no way, shape, or form influences the success or failure of a football program. Either your coach is competent enough to get players, or he isn't. If you're too ignorant to grasp that, then I can't help you

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