Maybe the problem isn't with Jay Graham, Tee Martin, Vonn Bell...

#402
#402
VKAman said:
We spoke to his representatives and he was definitely interested. Cheek didn't sign off on it. I'm glad you didn't try to argue that he would be a worse hire than Jones, though, because that would be extremely stupid.



Roughly equivalent? Please go ahead and look up WKU's record the year before he got there, then get back to me.

OK. Then look up the Latech record CDD inherited. Then, for further fun, look up the definition of "roughly".

Oh, forget everything then. He has a far superior winning percentage and has already gone to a far superior bowl, but Butch Jones has more experience. Wonderful point.

Cool. Use his record since the hire to prove his fitness for the hire. Good on you. (Remember? We were comparing him then for the hire then?)

First of all, anyone and everyone would have been a bigger/better hire than Dooley.

Anyone? Really? More opinion, spiced with hyperbole to support your argument?

It's funny because you're acting like that statement is based on hindsight, while sjt is mad at me for doing the exact opposite. I said Dooley was the worst hire in the country from day 1, and he was.

It is based on hindsight.

Look to the left. There is a username. It doesn't say "sjt".
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:hi:
 
#403
#403
Orange_Crush said:
...
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That doesn't answer my question. If it's wins and losses, then Sumlin was better than Dooley and Doeren is better than Jones. Both of which are true, but you'd just be agreeing with me.

Your "data points" seem to change to fit your agenda as you move down the list.
 
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#406
#406
VKAman said:
That doesn't answer my question. If it's wins and losses, then Sumlin was better than Dooley and Doeren is better than Jones. Both of which are true, but you'd just be agreeing with me.

Your "data points" seem to change to fit your agenda as you move down the list.
Click to expand...

Third time is the charm. Please research the word "roughly".

:hi:
 
#407
#407
Orange_Crush said:
:hi:
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Dooley took Louisiana Tech from 3-10 before he got there to 4-8 when he left. Taggart took WKU from 0-12 before he got there to 7-5 when he left. I wouldn't think those are similar by any definition of the word "roughly."

Most of these names are in comparison to Jones, aka as of 2012. With Dooley, you don't really need to go past Sumlin, but yes...anyone would have been better because he's one of the worst hires of all time. It doesn't take hindsight to see that a guy with a losing record in the WAC, coming off a 4-8 season, is a bad hire. The guy had the same record Gary Crowton did at LA Tech.
 
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#408
#408
I love reading how so many on here think that Dooley is a buffoon, etc yet he'd walk circles around everyone on here combined when it comes to CFB.

For goodness sake the current best coach in the country, Saban, considers the guy to be one of his closest friends (stated as such by name in a TV interview). I find it hard to believe that a guy like Saban would consider a CFB buffoon one of his closest friends. But that's just an assumption...
 
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#410
#410
Oskie Volum said:
I love reading how so many on here think that Dooley is a buffoon, etc yet he'd walk circles around everyone on here combined when it comes to CFB.

For goodness sake the current best coach in the country, Saban, considers the guy to be one of his closest friends (stated as such by name in a TV interview). I find it hard to believe that a guy like Saban would consider a CFB buffoon one of his closest friends. But that's just an assumption...
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He might be an excellent lawyer, but he is a suckarse football coach. I'm not sure he has a better football mind than George Quarles.
 
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#411
#411
oregonvol said:
What are you even talking about?
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The post that I had interspersed in my response as "quotes". I tried to break it up on a point-by-point basis so that it would be easy for other users to follow.

oregonvol said:
You asserted that the coaching search was very close to the vest.
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After agreeing and highlighting in his post that there were no reports that came out before the CCS report. No reports == Close to the vest, no?

oregonvol said:
You disputed VKAman's concerns about who we offered the job to.
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I disputed his arguments that led to those concerns. There is a distinct difference. Repeatedly showing that his arguments are fallacious shows that he is yet to properly support the argument. He is welcome to his concerns.

oregonvol said:
You have no basis to argue either point.
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No reports != close to the vest? What does?

Logic is a very good basis to judge the validity of an argument.

oregonvol said:
There is no evidence that a close to the vest search was conducted.
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By definition, a coaching search with no announcements/reports is close to the vest.

oregonvol said:
There is plenty of credible evidence that Hart offered one mid major coach, was turned down publicly, and then offered another mid major coach. That's not emotion. That's fact. Sorry.
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You totally missed the logical fallacy of an argument from silence/ignorance. There is only evidence for the Strong offer. If you would like to offer the evidence that the AD did not discuss the job with anyone else before that offer, then please provide it. (Remember that lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. It just means that you don't know what you don't know.)

Please prove that negative and we'll reconvene.
 
#412
#412
VKAman said:
Dooley:
17-20, 12-12 in the WAC.

Sumlin (when we were hiring):
18-9, 12-5 in C-USA.

I would love to see the definition of "roughly" that makes those similar.
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I alluded to this. Two small market coaches who hadn't proven anything, asked to rebuild a torched UT program.

Also remember the original point: It was about big names that would have crawled to UT to take the job.

"Roughly" equivalent means small market, unproven...

Got it now?

You still want to argue semantics while ignoring the original point and the litany of fallacious reasoning you've presented to prove your point, or you want to keep this thread alive a while longer?
 
#413
#413
Orange_Crush said:
I alluded to this. Two small market coaches who hadn't proven anything, asked to rebuild a torched UT program.

Also remember the original point: It was about big names that would have crawled to UT to take the job.

"Roughly" equivalent means small market, unproven...

Got it now?

You still want to argue semantics while ignoring the original point and the litany of fallacious reasoning you've presented to prove your point, or you want to keep this thread alive a while longer?
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No, it was about quality coaches. "Big names" is something you randomly pulled out of your ass when it became apparent that Sumlin proved you wrong.

Now, you're trying to suggest that a guy with twice as many wins as losses and a guy with LESS wins than losses are roughly equivalent. I think you need to look up the word "opposite."
 
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#414
#414
DarthVisor said:
He might be an excellent lawyer, but he is a suckarse football coach. I'm not sure he has a better football mind than George Quarles.
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Ok...I'm sure I'd take the guy that was reared by a NC SEC coach and his CFB knowledge over just about any. I'm thinking Saban and him don't discuss new courtroom techniques. Just imo of course...
 
#415
#415
I thought this a while back but after reading this thread I'm really starting to think...VKAman=Volbeef. Just sayin...
 
#417
#417
VKAman said:
No, it was about quality coaches. "Big names" is something you randomly pulled out of your ass when it became apparent that Sumlin proved you wrong.

Now, you're trying to suggest that a guy with twice as many wins as losses and a guy with LESS wins than losses are roughly equivalent. I think you need to look up the word "opposite."
Click to expand...

Or you do.

Mid-major coaches without much experience.
 
#418
#418
VKAman said:
That doesn't answer my question. If it's wins and losses, then Sumlin was better than Dooley and Doeren is better than Jones. Both of which are true, but you'd just be agreeing with me.

Your "data points" seem to change to fit your agenda as you move down the list.
Click to expand...

My data point included experience.

Three years for CDD, including 1 winning season and a bowl win.

Three years for Sumlin, including 2 winning seasons and a bowl win.

All at mid-major levels.

"Roughly" equivalent.
 
#419
#419
VKAman said:
No, it was about quality coaches. "Big names" is something you randomly pulled out of your ass when it became apparent that Sumlin proved you wrong.
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Go back and see your post that I answered in-quote, in bold.

First of all, anyone and everyone would have been a bigger/better hire than Dooley.
Click to expand...

Posted by... You.
 
#420
#420
Oskie Volum said:
Ok...I'm sure I'd take the guy that was reared by a NC SEC coach and his CFB knowledge over just about any. I'm thinking Saban and him don't discuss new courtroom techniques. Just imo of course...
Click to expand...

I definitely would want someone coaching my team that managed to get beat by Vandy by three touchdowns.

That indictment of Dooley aside, he is a career loser. He never should have been on The Hill in the first place.
 
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#421
#421
Orange_Crush said:
Or you do.

Mid-major coaches without much experience.
Click to expand...

...THOSE are your data points? Name of conference and time spent there?

Boy, that Jim Harbaugh was a terrible hire for Stanford. They should have gone with Houston Nutt based on all his experience.
Or Ron Zook. He's been in, like, big conferences and stuff.
 
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#423
#423
VKAman said:
...THOSE are your data points? Name of conference and time spent there?

Boy, that Jim Harbaugh was a terrible hire for Stanford. They should have gone with Houston Nutt based on all his experience.
Or Ron Zook. He's been in, like, big conferences and stuff.
Click to expand...

Keep scrolling down. You'll get it.

(Interestingly enough, in a discussion about other people we could have hired besides CDD, those were the data points people were using against him, including reference to the conference he came from.)
 
#425
#425
Orange_Crush said:
You also severely limit the pool of coaches that will be willing to come in after the firing, while driving up future buy-out clauses. Coaches want to know that they will be given a fair shake-- especially the kind of quality coaches you need for a rebuild.
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VKAman said:
Quality coaches aren't scared of ending up like Dooley. In fact, "quality" and "Dooley" should never be in the same sentence.
Click to expand...

You back up to speed now, OC?
 
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