McCarthy Logic - Weak Conservative Edition

#76
#76
volgr said:
Yep, I'm a Putin puppet because I want the slaughter of Ukrainians to stop through a peaceful resolution.
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The Ukrainians don't want to stop the war--they want their territory back. They don't want to be under the boot of Russia. Why would anyone not support that goal?
 
#77
#77
turbovol said:
Why WOULDN'T we be involved? Russia is our chief adversary--have the hicks forgotten this? In their anti-Democratic/Biden fervor, they apparently have. Since when should we and our European allies sit around and watch Russia take over a sovereign country that wants to join the EU, wants to join NATO and could become, will become, a super-strong European ally? What about the importance of international law? All of our European allies know that it is imperative that Ukraine be assisted as it fights for its survival--no more so than those nations in Eastern Europe that were under the boot of the USSR---but we're supposed to do nothing?

The rubes and GOP crazies in Congress are weak on Ukraine merely because Biden is strongly for helping Ukraine defend and win this war. Many Republican pols simply exist now to oppose anything and everything that the Dems/Biden do. Fortunately, in the case of Ukraine there are a lot of Republicans who do understand the vital stakes in this war. Am I surprised that the hicks don't? No, I'm not
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Russia isn't our chief adversary, not by a long shot.
 
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#79
#79
lawgator1 said:
I admit I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole, though I do think we should be on guard for manipulation by Moscow. I doubt any are bribed. Meaning I would genuinely be surprised if they were. But I do think there are efforts from Putin to push narratives in GOP circles to undermine the support for Ukraine.
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I would expect Putin/Russian manipulation and propaganda to continue, but I think it largely falls on deaf ears and the effectiveness of Russia’s manipulation is overblown here. I respect opinions as to why we should not be so involved in that war, but I don’t believe most of them have anything to do with empathy for Putin. I believe it is grounded in fatigue from involvement in past conflicts, mounting debt for future generations and domestic issues being ignored, financially and policy wise. I loathe Putin and don’t mind seeing him get his nose bloodied, but at the same time my hesitation is rooted in what I mentioned above.
 
#84
#84
turbovol said:
The Ukrainians don't want to stop the war--they want their territory back. They don't want to be under the boot of Russia. Why would anyone not support that goal?
Click to expand...

You leave out a lot facts in your biased response. Ukraine cant take that territory back unless Western boots are involved. Trying to take that land back has cost them 100's of thousands of lives and double that figure in wounded. A negotiated peace was always the sensible solution. They were going to lose that land regardless.
 
#85
#85
turbovol said:
Romney would have made a very good president--and I say that as a Democrat. He's a smart, sensible Republican--not some right-wing crazy or extremist. Not some idiotic redneck. He got beat by Obama because Obama was a good president, a charismatic guy and a popular incumbent. He also got caught on tape at a private fundraiser saying something dumb about the have-nots in America that the Dems used in TV ads and that hurt him, a lot. The GOP needs to ditch the rednecks and the crazies and get back to running decent, sensible moderates. They might win more--and the country would benefit. And, yea, the gangster was absolutely responsible for the GOP's '22 losses--and will be responsible for more losses to come.

Case in point....

My Fellow Republicans: It’s Time to Grow Up​


www.nytimes.com

Opinion | My Fellow Republicans: It’s Time to Grow Up

A former member of Congress has advice for his fellow Republicans who are considering ousting Speaker McCarthy.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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Yes, if only the GOP were more like the DNC, they would be more acceptable for you and your friends. We know why you like Romney.
 
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#87
#87
Velo Vol said:
Alternative term is "useful idiot," which certainly fits if you think ending weapons shipments to UKR is going to stop the killing in eastern Europe.
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So far Western Death Cult weapon shipments have only accelerated Ukrainian deaths and increased Russia's kill to death ratio. All the while Ukraine has yet to budge Russian defensive lines during the vaunted Spring/Summer Offensive
 
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#89
#89
volgr said:
You leave out a lot facts in your biased response. Ukraine cant take that territory back unless Western boots are involved. Trying to take that land back has cost them 100's of thousands of lives and double that figure in wounded. A negotiated peace was always the sensible solution. They were going to lose that land regardless.
Click to expand...
Ukraine didn't have to lose anything. Had they had a simple, non-aggresive stance with regards to NATO expansion, this could have been avoided. Also, in 2013 when Yanukovich was considering the trade deal with the EU, the sensible thing for Ukraine was to trade with both the EU and Russia. But the EU did not want that kind of flexibility for Ukraine because they wanted an all-or-nothing arrangement. That decision by Yanukovich lead to the coup, which lead to the loss of Crimea and the 8 years of attacks and non-implementaion of the Minsk ceasefire agreements. The US/NATO wanted this war and now they have it.

Becareful of what you wish for...
 
#90
#90
turbovol said:
Romney would have made a very good president--and I say that as a Democrat. He's a smart, sensible Republican--not some right-wing crazy or extremist. Not some idiotic redneck. He got beat by Obama because Obama was a good president, a charismatic guy and a popular incumbent. He also got caught on tape at a private fundraiser saying something dumb about the have-nots in America that the Dems used in TV ads and that hurt him, a lot. The GOP needs to ditch the rednecks and the crazies and get back to running decent, sensible moderates. They might win more--and the country would benefit. And, yea, the gangster was absolutely responsible for the GOP's '22 losses--and will be responsible for more losses to come.

Case in point....

My Fellow Republicans: It’s Time to Grow Up​


www.nytimes.com

Opinion | My Fellow Republicans: It’s Time to Grow Up

A former member of Congress has advice for his fellow Republicans who are considering ousting Speaker McCarthy.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...
 
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#91
#91
Vol737 said:
I would expect Putin/Russian manipulation and propaganda to continue, but I think it largely falls on deaf ears and the effectiveness of Russia’s manipulation is overblown here. I respect opinions as to why we should not be so involved in that war, but I don’t believe most of them have anything to do with empathy for Putin. I believe it is grounded in fatigue from involvement in past conflicts, mounting debt for future generations and domestic issues being ignored, financially and policy wise. I loathe Putin and don’t mind seeing him get his nose bloodied, but at the same time my hesitation is rooted in what I mentioned above.
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It is, at best, simply a point on which to disagree with Biden some more for the sake of doing so. Its pure partisanship by GOPers safe enough in their districts to withstand scrutiny over their position against funding Ukraine, and who want to be in Trump's good graces.

I daresay no more than one or two members of Congress is against funding Ukraine out of any sort of genuine principled position.
 
#92
#92
Rasputin_Vol said:
Ukraine didn't have to lose anything. Had they had a simple, non-aggresive stance with regards to NATO expansion, this could have been avoided. Also, in 2013 when Yanukovich was considering the trade deal with the EU, the sensible thing for Ukraine was to trade with both the EU and Russia. But the EU did not want that kind of flexibility for Ukraine because they wanted an all-or-nothing arrangement. That decision by Yanukovich lead to the coup, which lead to the loss of Crimea and the 8 years of attacks and non-implementaion of the Minsk ceasefire agreements. The US/NATO wanted this war and now they have it.

Becareful of what you wish for...
Click to expand...

True, this could have all been avoided years ago, but my point was, despite all that, even as late as when Russia started their military operation into Ukraine, Russia was still trying to get Ukraine to the table for a peaceful solution.What Russia was reportedly demanding was basically roughly what they are now holding and anyone with a functioning brain knew Ukraine had no chance against Russia. They were always going to lose that land, either by force or negotiation.
 
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#94
#94
lawgator1 said:
McCarthy is scheduling a vote on Ukraine funding. The House members will have to vote yes, or no.

Good. For any member that votes no, there should be an FBI investigation of any Russian ties, financial or otherwise.
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Good God man. I mean your stance on someone being culpable for their weapons being stolen and committing murder is insane. But saying anyone who doesn’t fully support funding for Ukraine should be investigated is showing your fascist side.
 
#95
#95
turbovol said:
The Ukrainians don't want to stop the war--they want their territory back. They don't want to be under the boot of Russia. Why would anyone not support that goal?
Click to expand...
Show us where Putin wants to control all of Ukraine. I mean you and the other Zelensky slurpers need to get something through your head. If Putin truly wanted to just absorb Ukraine and wanted to control the country, he would. Don’t fool yourself. If Putin used the absolute full force of his military from the very beginning this thing would have been over in weeks.

The fact that you support us supporting Ukraine shows the anti American rhetoric typical of the liberal idiocy. You care more about illegal immigrants and what’s going in other countries than you do in America. No wonder the world laughs at this administration. We have a demented circus monkey trying to run things.
 
#96
#96
BigOrangeTrain said:
Show us where Putin wants to control all of Ukraine. I mean you and the other Zelensky slurpers need to get something through your head. If Putin truly wanted to just absorb Ukraine and wanted to control the country, he would. Don’t fool yourself. If Putin used the absolute full force of his military from the very beginning this thing would have been over in weeks.

The fact that you support us supporting Ukraine shows the anti American rhetoric typical of the liberal idiocy. You care more about illegal immigrants and what’s going in other countries than you do in America. No wonder the world laughs at this administration. We have a demented circus monkey trying to run things.
Click to expand...

Ras logged into BoTs account.
 
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