Mickey Deastone

#101
#101
glv98 said:
I also think most fans would feel ok w an "outsider" and I also thought Wes M would have been a good choice. But a vocal, longtime, big donating sliver of influential fans disagree both w outsider and male. The point was that group has too much influence, IMO.

I'd be very surprised if such a survey, at least informally, hasn't been done. Part of marketing the effort. I'd also be surprised if the use of "Lady" isn't pointed out and ridiculed on the recruiting trail the same way it is on other team's fan boards, etc.

None of this is to disparage KJH. She may well have been the best available option. I really like her and think she's done alot right and may well be the answer. I sure hope so. But overall, being constrained from considering the best available coaching option bc of gender or lack of PS connection just seems a very bad idea moving forward. As does the continued use of the badly outdated "Lady". The brand would be fine w/o it IMO.
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We’re lucky to have her.
 
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#102
#102
I’ll also say this: The Lady Vols basketball program will ALWAYS belong to Pat. She started the program from basically nothing, as we all know, and she made the program what it is. The program is symbolic in a way no other program is, and so it should continue to be that symbol, including a female head coach. So, Pat’s wishes will continue to be honored because she built the program. Before she stepped down, she already had plans in place for Holly to take over. And she prepared Kellie to come back and take the job as well.
 
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#103
#103
LadyOrange said:
Until I hear a recruit say the logo is a turnoff, I’ll assume it isn’t.
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I doubt any recruit who found the logo or the LVs being stuck in the past a turnoff would care enough to say so. I'm more concerned with how all that gets used against us by other programs. And it definitely does.
 
#104
#104
glv98 said:
The metaphorical blue hair fan base. We owe them alot of gratitude and their loyalty is admirable. They are for sure the foundational stone, but they are not the future. Understandably but unfortunately, they're more interested in hanging onto every shred of the past than in planning for the next era. No doubt those donors since '79 are beloved and valued but demographically, the program should be developing a new cash flow stream. This one has a rapidly approaching end point.

They remind me of a grieving spouse who refuses to change anything about the house, personal possessions, etc. Certainly understandable (been there myself) but usually not particularly helpful to any kind of "moving on". Apparently the original LV fanbase feel any "moving on" somehow diminishes Pat's accomplishments and standing.

I totally disagree. There is zero that could ever diminish the life and career of Pat Summitt and we have the LEGIT statue and court name to prove it. No logo change could ever separate her from the program. Except maybe by holding onto the past so tenaciously that the program is permanently injured by decisions based on nostalgia. I think she'd hate that.

I don't think its a stretch to imagine that hanging onto the old school too much could impact recruiting. Always have to look at how much the historical LV brand helps recruit vs. the need to be forward thinking and cool. Of course the ideal is to be both. All of which I'm sure KJH and company are completely aware of and constantly working on.
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Ok. Well, I’ve been a fan since I was 12 and donate. My hair is dark brown. This is not nostalgia. The program is a symbol and will remain so unless another Dave Hart comes along, someone who isn’t smart enough to understand the program.
 
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#106
#106
LadyOrange said:
The program is a symbol and will remain so unless another Dave Hart comes along, someone who isn’t smart enough to understand the program.
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I think that's the very heart of the debate. Symbol of the past steadfastly rooted there or living, breathing, viable, forward moving program with a great and revered past. I choose door number 2.
 
#107
#107
glv98 said:
I think that's the very heart of the debate. Symbol of the past steadfastly rooted there or living, breathing, viable, forward moving program with a great and revered past. I choose door number 2.
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Mixing your metaphors. It certainly brings the past with it, which is part of the richness of the program.
 
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#108
#108
glv98 said:
I think its pretty widely known there's outsized influence on the program by some big donors who would rather see the program become La Tech than change a thing from the glory days.
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Which of Tennessee's "big donors" want to see Tennessee become Louisiana Tech? I've never heard this.

And additionally, I would submit that Louisiana Tech became Louisiana Tech because it's Louisiana Tech. They developed a well-run program led by a superior coach during an era when women's basketball was small and regional, which allowed a team from the Sun Belt to compete with the major conferences and hold their own. But with the added attention and investment from ESPN, those days are behind us. Power 5 programs in the modern era, by virtue of their conferences, income, and professional partnerships, are not going to be come Louisiana Techs anymore. Their brands are too big for that now.
 
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#109
#109
creekdipper said:
That's just my speculation. Maybe we should get someone to do an independent survey and ask some younh athletes how they react to the logo.
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Heh, this whole thread is nothing but speculation. Not too bad for a post about Mickey Dearstone (who I really don't have a problem with but to each their own).

Though if I were going to speculate about anything discussed here, I would speculate that Tennessee has conducted surveys and knows the consumer sentiment around the Lady Vols name - and what that name does for them in recruiting, in marketing, etc.
 
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#110
#110
Voltopia said:
Which of Tennessee's "big donors" want to see Tennessee become Louisiana Tech? I've never heard this.
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Of course you're right about La Tech's unique circumstances. 'Become La Tech' is a generalization for being a bygone former great program. My point is that a small but influential sliver of fans would rather see the program be left behind than to see any change in things they view to be PS foundational. And who fear changing or updating equals disparaging or diminishing PHS, which I think is not possible in spite of logos, etc.

Obviously, we can do both, honor the storied past and move forward. That takes a little give on both sides though.
 
#114
#114
glv98 said:
IMO its more about what the LVs won't quit doing than what others are doing. Like hanging onto the outdated and questionable "Lady" moniker and also the loud resistance to hiring a coach outside the PS family. I think its pretty widely known there's outsized influence on the program by some big donors who would rather see the program become La Tech than change a thing from the glory days.
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Any evidence or testimony by others - polls, research, etc - that the "Lady" moniker hurts recruiting? Or the style of play? Or the other claims? It's OK with me, of course, if it's just opinion. Thats what the board is for. I'm just curious if there is data out there to back you up.
 
#116
#116
glv98 said:
being constrained from considering the best available coaching option bc of gender or lack of PS connection just seems a very bad idea moving forward.
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Again, I have antennae that make me sit up and notice when someone says something like this. Can it be verified? How do we know this is true? Is it just rumors or false accusations or is there concrete evidence of such a conspiracy of donors?
 
#118
#118
Voltopia said:
I would speculate that Tennessee has conducted surveys and knows the consumer sentiment around the Lady Vols name - and what that name does for them in recruiting, in marketing, etc.
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As I said above, I'm sure they do this market research also.
youcancallmeAl said:
Again, I have antennae that make me sit up and notice when someone says something like this. Can it be verified? How do we know this is true? Is it just rumors or false accusations or is there concrete evidence of such a conspiracy of donors?
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BC they say it outloud? As w the poster above, it isn't a secret that this segment of the fan base says no males and no one not connected to the PS tree. No conspiracy, they are totally entitled to that opinion. The discussion is whether their influence is outsized and harmful to the program moving forward.
 
#121
#121
youcancallmeAl said:
Thanks, Chuck. I found that also, but it has no date on it. Don't know what season that is. I don't think it's this year, because of the huge attendance of SC.
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I did find a list of single game all time. USCe had the top two, then a couple at the carrier dome and RCA dome. TBA was well represented in the top twenty but prior years.
 
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#122
#122
glv98 said:
As I said above, I'm sure they do this market research also.

BC they say it outloud? As w the poster above, it isn't a secret that this segment of the fan base says no males and no one not connected to the PS tree. No conspiracy, they are totally entitled to that opinion. The discussion is whether their influence is outsized and harmful to the program moving forward.
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OK, fair enough, I'll take it at face value. But, if this uber influential group is as xenophobic as you say, then they did OK if they were the ones who hired Kellie, we can say so far. And we may soon be able to say they hit a home run.
 
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#123
#123
youcancallmeAl said:
OK, fair enough, I'll take it at face value. But, if this uber influential group is as xenophobic as you say, then they did OK if they were the ones who hired Kellie, we can say so far. And we may soon be able to say they hit a home run.
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It's not what I say, it's what they say and what they say Pat said. We may have lucked out this time, but "xenophobia" still doesn't seem like a good hiring strategy for moving forward successfully.
 
#124
#124
glv98 said:
I think that's the very heart of the debate. Symbol of the past steadfastly rooted there or living, breathing, viable, forward moving program with a great and revered past. I choose door number 2.
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You have a good argument and argue it well. I hope when the time comes to change, everyone embraces the new dynamic and moves forward. There will always be resistance to change.
 
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