Migration Nightmares Hitting Europe

[LouderVol]

Nope they didn’t. They all had Nazi party membership for sure. An no Von Braun didn’t “run a slave labor camp”. Von Braun was a complicated individual and the best description I’ve read on him was a Faustian deal maker.

All Von Braun wanted to do was make rockets. He was actually arrested at one point but released to push the V2 into operation.

They were all Nazi party members. However that was the bar for admission at the time. Comply or be jailed/die. I’m disinclined to sit in judgement on people forced into party membership by necessity.

That is not equivalent to finding out documented war criminals snuck into your country and then blocking their extradition for over a decade and still going while the individuals walk around free. While paperclip was formed from an eye raising perspective as individuals were discovered they were dealt with.

Like I said it’s complicated. No way we were going to let the Russians get the scientists. I guess we could have just locked them up and threw away the key?

He was in the SS. That's not just nazi party membership.

And history being determined by the Victor's definitely applies to Von Braun.

He wasnt some concitentious objector stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time. He actually requested to join the Nazis in 1937 despite what he told the Americans about being forced to sign up in 1939. He has even started working with the military before that in 36, working on putting jets on some Heinkels.

Guy Morrand, a captured french resistance fighter testified in Von Brauns involvement in some of the slave beatings around the rocket plant in mittelwerk. There are also stories of him hand picking some slave laborers for particular, often deadly, tasks.

The arrest wasnt until late, like 1944. And it was a case of him being set up by the political infighting, not some stand he took.

Hes not the worst of them by a long stretch, but he wasnt some good guy we rescued during a brave solo fight against the nazis.

 

[NorthDallas40]

He was in the SS. That's not just nazi party membership.

And history being determined by the Victor's definitely applies to Von Braun.

He wasnt some concitentious objector stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time. He actually requested to join the Nazis in 1937 despite what he told the Americans about being forced to sign up in 1939. He has even started working with the military before that in 36, working on putting jets on some Heinkels.

Guy Morrand, a captured french resistance fighter testified in Von Brauns involvement in some of the slave beatings around the rocket plant in mittelwerk. There are also stories of him hand picking some slave laborers for particular, often deadly, tasks.

The arrest wasnt until late, like 1944. And it was a case of him being set up by the political infighting, not some stand he took.

Hes not the worst of them by a long stretch, but he wasnt some good guy we rescued during a brave solo fight against the nazis.

I didn’t say he was a good guy Louder. But he didn’t “run a slave labor camp” as you claimed either. He was an opportunist, plain and simple. He just wanted to make rockets. He is by far the most notable of them with the most documented history for sure.

Paperclip is always brought out by people trying to throw shade at the US and virtue signaling just as our VN poster did here. It was to a degree one of our own Devil’s bargains. But we never ignored evidence when it was brought forth we did act. And it’s laughable to equate Paperclip with the limeys blocking extradition on those killers for over a decade and counting which is what started all this.

 

[LouderVol]

I didn’t say he was a good guy Louder. But he didn’t “run a slave labor camp” as you claimed either. He was an opportunist, plain and simple. He just wanted to make rockets. He is by far the most notable of them with the most documented history for sure.

Paperclip is always brought out by people trying to throw shade at the US and virtue signaling just as our VN poster did here. It was to a degree one of our own Devil’s bargains. But we never ignored evidence when it was brought forth we did act. And it’s laughable to equate Paperclip with the limeys blocking extradition on those killers for over a decade and counting which is what started all this.

Depends on what you mean by run, but I would say he was responsible for the particular situation they were in. He was in charge of several facilities where slave labor was used, there are several witness statements talking about his specific involvement with the slaves/prisoners. That's enough for me to lump him under the guilty category.

We definitely ignored involvement when it benefitted us. Just because there were some sacrificial lambs and they cleaned out the worst doesnt excuse the rest we overlooked on our way to space. You know what we call other self serving opportunists who worked under the Hitler regime? Nazis. Not sure why you want to give Von Braun a pass.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Depends on what you mean by run, but I would say he was responsible for the particular situation they were in. He was in charge of several facilities where slave labor was used, there are several witness statements talking about his specific involvement with the slaves/prisoners. That's enough for me to lump him under the guilty category.

We definitely ignored involvement when it benefitted us. Just because there were some sacrificial lambs and they cleaned out the worst doesnt excuse the rest we overlooked on our way to space. You know what we call other self serving opportunists who worked under the Hitler regime? Nazis. Not sure why you want to give Von Braun a pass.

He was the chief scientist. Another person was the site manager. He was definitely complicit though yes. And yes like I said he was an opportunist for sure.

It is what it is. It wasn’t my choice to give him a pass. But if we didn’t the Russians would have been happy to. And where did I say he wasn’t a Nazi, I already acknowledged he was a party member. But if the choice is join the party or die it’s pretty damn hard to be self righteous and sit in judgement on him unless you want to walk a mile in his shoes.

 

[LouderVol]

He was the chief scientist. Another person was the site manager. He was definitely complicit though yes. And yes like I said he was an opportunist for sure.

It is what it is. It wasn’t my choice to give him a pass. But if we didn’t the Russians would have been happy to. And where did I say he wasn’t a Nazi, I already acknowledged he was a party member. But if the choice is join the party or die it’s pretty damn hard to be self righteous and sit in judgement on him unless you want to walk a mile in his shoes.

uh. plenty of people fled Germany. We got a bunch of scientists that way. including Einstein.

and you keep down playing his Nazi roots. Bringing up the arrest, which had nothing to do with his beliefs; trying to argue it didn't matter because he was JUST an opportunist, and to me that argument doesn't hold water because there were plenty of German opportunists that ended up working for the Nazis that we treated like full blown Nazis at the end of the war.
He was SS and in charge of probably their most advanced sector. he wasn't just playing the Nazi, he was flourishing under it.

and there were at least two valid options of what we could have done with him besides let the Russians take him. 1. stick him in prison, like any number of other Nazis. 2. kill him, like any number of other Nazis. Both would have taken trials, but that didn't stop us for others.

we did the same thing we condemned so many for. We worked with the Nazis to further our goals.

 

[NorthDallas40]

uh. plenty of people fled Germany. We got a bunch of scientists that way. including Einstein.

and you keep down playing his Nazi roots. Bringing up the arrest, which had nothing to do with his beliefs; trying to argue it didn't matter because he was JUST an opportunist, and to me that argument doesn't hold water because there were plenty of German opportunists that ended up working for the Nazis that we treated like full blown Nazis at the end of the war.
He was SS and in charge of probably their most advanced sector. he wasn't just playing the Nazi, he was flourishing under it.

and there were at least two valid options of what we could have done with him besides let the Russians take him. 1. stick him in prison, like any number of other Nazis. 2. kill him, like any number of other Nazis. Both would have taken trials, but that didn't stop us for others.

we did the same thing we condemned so many for. We worked with the Nazis to further our goals.

You’re inferring a whole bunch in here and have done so in your other posts Louder.

Feel free to judge his choices all you like. Like I said I’m inclined to not pass my own judgement since I didn’t walk in his shoes.

The every day German wasn’t expected to join the party and was not forced to do so. They were just the sheep. However at the level the scientists were playing at party membership was expected and “encouraged” via many means. Threats against their families were common.

And BTW we actually collaborated prior to hostilities breaking out. Von Braun’s work started with Goddard’s developments and extended on that and there is evidence that they acquired his technical data without using espionage.

It’s easy to sit back and be a pundit and throw rocks at these scientists if you like. I just think it’s misguided outrage is all

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

uh. plenty of people fled Germany. We got a bunch of scientists that way. including Einstein.

and you keep down playing his Nazi roots. Bringing up the arrest, which had nothing to do with his beliefs; trying to argue it didn't matter because he was JUST an opportunist, and to me that argument doesn't hold water because there were plenty of German opportunists that ended up working for the Nazis that we treated like full blown Nazis at the end of the war.
He was SS and in charge of probably their most advanced sector. he wasn't just playing the Nazi, he was flourishing under it.

and there were at least two valid options of what we could have done with him besides let the Russians take him. 1. stick him in prison, like any number of other Nazis. 2. kill him, like any number of other Nazis. Both would have taken trials, but that didn't stop us for others.

we did the same thing we condemned so many for. We worked with the Nazis to further our goals.

Hey do me a favor and stop virtue-signaling!

 

[NorthDallas40]

Hey do me a favor and stop virtue-signaling!

Yep. At least you recognize what you’re (both) doing.

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

Yep. At least you recognize what you’re (both) doing.

Sure thing little buddy.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Sure thing little buddy.

It appears to be all you have from a posting standpoint.

 

[LouderVol]

You’re inferring a whole bunch in here and have done so in your other posts Louder.

Feel free to judge his choices all you like. Like I said I’m inclined to not pass my own judgement since I didn’t walk in his shoes.

The every day German wasn’t expected to join the party and was not forced to do so. They were just the sheep. However at the level the scientists were playing at party membership was expected and “encouraged” via many means. Threats against their families were common.

And BTW we actually collaborated prior to hostilities breaking out. Von Braun’s work started with Goddard’s developments and extended on that and there is evidence that they acquired his technical data without using espionage.

It’s easy to sit back and be a pundit and throw rocks at these scientists if you like. I just think it’s misguided outrage is all

My outrage isnt at Von Braun but us.

And I havent inferred jack. Its fact he was SS. Its fact that we we used the fear of Russia to justify working with Nazis. It's a fact that we tried plenty of opportunist scientists after the war.

You have clearly just read the fluff pieces we wrote after the fact to disguise who we were in bed with. Try reading some of the testimony against him. It reads like any other testimony against a Nazi.

You are the one inferring that he was any different after refusing to do real research on the guy.

Paperclip was the same as any other of those extrajudicial programs pur nation took and justified because "lol we're the government" and it has set the table for where we are today.

 

[NorthDallas40]

My outrage isnt at Von Braun but us.

And I havent inferred jack. Its fact he was SS. Its fact that we we used the fear of Russia to justify working with Nazis. It's a fact that we tried plenty of opportunist scientists after the war.

You have clearly just read the fluff pieces we wrote after the fact to disguise who we were in bed with. Try reading some of the testimony against him. It reads like any other testimony against a Nazi.

You are the one inferring that he was any different after refusing to do real research on the guy.

Paperclip was the same as any other of those extrajudicial programs pur nation took and justified because "lol we're the government" and it has set the table for where we are today.

I’ve read both sides Louder. And yeah you did infer quite a bit about me and my stance.

And while our government is fairly borked they have a long way to go before they reach the level of oppression that the Nazi’s imposed in their subjects. I’m not currently too worried about either majority party pushing a “join us or die” decision on any of us. Not yet anyway. Thus trying to infer what the average scientist (Or Von Braun for that matter) was faced with decision wise in that era based on our own context it meaningless it just doesn’t compare. We don’t agree on this topic Louder it’s just that simple.

 

[NorthDallas40]

@LouderVol here is a bit of perspective from my vantage point. With your architecture background when it’s all said and done you will have way more education than my simple BSEE. But arguably you won’t ever have to consider the morality debate for the fruits of your skills. Your products are big beautiful buildings.

For over 30 years the fruits of my skills have been weapon systems related. And I can remember debates all the way back to college on fellow students being horrified that their skills could result in a product which could harm their fellow man. Think back to Alfred Nobel and his dilemma. Fortunately for Nobel he had gotten rich enough from the fruits of his labor that he could buy his peace of mind back. Good for him I guess. But for most of us mundane scientists we don’t have that option. I made my peace a long time ago on what the products I help create are used for. I guess if we are ever conquered I better hope that our new over lords see merit in my usefulness and give me the same bargain?

This isn’t the first time virtue signaling about Paperclip has made me laugh. Just due to the context of the operation and what I do for a living I was drawn to try and understand it. And as I’ve said I reached the conclusion that I personally am willing to give those scientists the benefit of the doubt. And I reached that decision decades ago.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Watch: Farage Again Catches French Ships Escorting Illegal Migrant Boats Into British Waters

Nigel Farage has filmed more migrants apparently being escorted by a French naval vessel into British waters to be handed over to UK Border Force.

The Brexit Party leader turned investigative journalist took to the English Channel again on Tuesday morning to report on the increased waves of illegal boat migrants sailing from camps in France to the United Kingdom.

Mr Farage said that he witnessed a French ship escorting a “rib” (a small rubber boat) loaded with 13 illegal migrants into British waters. In the video, the veteran Brexit campaigner called the actions of the French Navy an “outrage” that “has to stop”.

“Last week, we put huge pressure on the home secretary. We’ve given the French 61 million quid to stop illegal boat migrants coming into British waters. What we witnessed again today, was the navy, the French navy, escorting them into our waters,” Farage said.

Farage Again Catches French Escorting Illegal Migrants Into UK Waters

 

[Electric Orange]

Reading stabbings: Three people dead after Forbury Gardens attack

Three people have died and three more have been seriously injured after stabbings in a park in Reading, police confirmed.

A 25-year-old man from Reading has been arrested on suspicion of murder after being detained at the scene.

The attack happened at Forbury Gardens at about 19:00 BST where several people were stabbed.

Police are not currently treating the incident as terror-related, but counter terrorism officers were called.

Security sources have told the BBC a man arrested at the scene is thought to be Libyan.

Home affairs correspondent Daniel Sandford said he had been told the man had previously been in prison in the UK for a relatively minor conviction, not a terrorism offence.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Sweden: 18,000 Asylum Seekers from 2015 Now Given EU Citizenship

Over 18,000 people who came to Sweden during the height of the 2015 migrant crisis have been granted Swedish citizenship — and by extension EU citizenship — since being initially accepted for asylum status.

The Swedish migration board has revealed that a total of 18,420 people who came to the country in 2015 as asylum seekers are now Swedish citizens, granting full citizenship rights including the right to Free Movement around the EU — including Britain, until the end of the 2020 transition period — and the right to vote.

Around 60 per cent of them come from Syria, followed by Afghan nationals and so-called stateless individuals.

Sweden: 18,000 Asylum Seekers From 2015 Now Given EU Citizenship

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Sweden: 18,000 Asylum Seekers from 2015 Now Given EU Citizenship

Over 18,000 people who came to Sweden during the height of the 2015 migrant crisis have been granted Swedish citizenship — and by extension EU citizenship — since being initially accepted for asylum status.

The Swedish migration board has revealed that a total of 18,420 people who came to the country in 2015 as asylum seekers are now Swedish citizens, granting full citizenship rights including the right to Free Movement around the EU — including Britain, until the end of the 2020 transition period — and the right to vote.

Around 60 per cent of them come from Syria, followed by Afghan nationals and so-called stateless individuals.

Sweden: 18,000 Asylum Seekers From 2015 Now Given EU Citizenship

Damn. The Swedish bikini team is really gonna take a nosedive .

 

[Orangeburst]

"They", whoever they is, want to do away with borders and nationalism to create a global community. I have often wondered if it is some type of corporatocracy/govennment alliance for a new world order to prevent the nationalism that led to the two World Wars. Of course more sinister thoughts can come to mind.

 

[Electric Orange]

A European court backs 3 migrants, rules against France

PARIS -- The European Court of Human Rights ruled on Thursday that France violated the rights of three asylum-seekers who lived for months on the streets with no means to meet basic needs such as food, housing and health care.

The court considered that the three migrants — an Afghan, a Russian, and an Iranian — “have been victims of a degrading treatment reflecting a lack of respect for their dignity.”

France is “responsible for the conditions in which they lived for months in the street ... with permanent fear of being attacked and robbed,” the court said in a statement, noting the “absence of adequate response” from authorities.

The court ordered France to pay fines ranging from 10,000 to 12,400 euros ($11,280 to $13,986) to each of the three migrants.

The European court has ruled several times against France on its treatment of migrants, saying the country is in breach of Europe’s human rights convention forbidding inhuman or degrading treatment.

In February 2019, the court ordered France to pay 15,000 euros ($17,000) to an Afghan migrant for failing to protect him when, as a 12-year-old, he lived alone in a makeshift migrant camp in Calais, in northern France.

 

[LouderVol]

A European court backs 3 migrants, rules against France

PARIS -- The European Court of Human Rights ruled on Thursday that France violated the rights of three asylum-seekers who lived for months on the streets with no means to meet basic needs such as food, housing and health care.

The court considered that the three migrants — an Afghan, a Russian, and an Iranian — “have been victims of a degrading treatment reflecting a lack of respect for their dignity.”

France is “responsible for the conditions in which they lived for months in the street ... with permanent fear of being attacked and robbed,” the court said in a statement, noting the “absence of adequate response” from authorities.

The court ordered France to pay fines ranging from 10,000 to 12,400 euros ($11,280 to $13,986) to each of the three migrants.

The European court has ruled several times against France on its treatment of migrants, saying the country is in breach of Europe’s human rights convention forbidding inhuman or degrading treatment.

In February 2019, the court ordered France to pay 15,000 euros ($17,000) to an Afghan migrant for failing to protect him when, as a 12-year-old, he lived alone in a makeshift migrant camp in Calais, in northern France.

Wait they have to care for anyone who wins up on their door step?

Holy crap that's a raw deal.

 

[Carl Pickens]

A European court backs 3 migrants, rules against France

PARIS -- The European Court of Human Rights ruled on Thursday that France violated the rights of three asylum-seekers who lived for months on the streets with no means to meet basic needs such as food, housing and health care.

The court considered that the three migrants — an Afghan, a Russian, and an Iranian — “have been victims of a degrading treatment reflecting a lack of respect for their dignity.”

France is “responsible for the conditions in which they lived for months in the street ... with permanent fear of being attacked and robbed,” the court said in a statement, noting the “absence of adequate response” from authorities.

The court ordered France to pay fines ranging from 10,000 to 12,400 euros ($11,280 to $13,986) to each of the three migrants.

The European court has ruled several times against France on its treatment of migrants, saying the country is in breach of Europe’s human rights convention forbidding inhuman or degrading treatment.

In February 2019, the court ordered France to pay 15,000 euros ($17,000) to an Afghan migrant for failing to protect him when, as a 12-year-old, he lived alone in a makeshift migrant camp in Calais, in northern France.

This will be coming to America soon

 

[Electric Orange]

Police find 211 migrants crammed in truck in North Macedonia

 

[VolFaninFla]

https://nypost.com/2020/07/10/french-bus-driver-dies-after-barbaric-attack-over-face-masks/
Bus driver was just doing his job.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Farage Investigates: Brexit Leader Uncovers Hotel Refusing Brits While Housing 147 Migrants

Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage released an exposé film on Wednesday, visiting a hotel in England that has shut its doors to the British public while it houses migrants attempting to receive asylum status in the UK.

Mr Farage continued his journalistic endeavours to uncover the scale of the illegal migration epidemic in the United Kingdom, travelling to a hotel in Bromsgrove in the West Midlands, which he reported was housing 147 migrants, while refusing to take bookings from staycationing Britons.

In the film, Mr Farage was told by staff at the hotel — who admitted to working for the labour contracting company Serco, which provides asylum services for the government — that he was not allowed to film in the hotel and was forced to leave.

Responding to the discovery, Farage warned that if the asylum claims from the migrants staying in the hotel are rejected, “they will still stay in the country… picking fruit, working in the rag trade in Leicester or whatever it is. They will move into the illegal slave economy in this country.”

Mr Farage said that the Conservative government under Prime Minister Boris Johnson is “doing nothing about it”.

Nigel Farage Uncovers Hotel Refusing Brits While Housing 147 Migrants

 

[Vol Main]

Persons in the United States and Europe like to think they are overwhelmed with aliens.

Hungarians think there is a problem if more persons who are not born in Hungary are living in the land enclosed by the imaginary lines called the border of Hungary. The land doesn't ****ing care, and there is enough of it to accommodate (I just learned this past week that we can erect structures that are basically vertical stacks with different things they call floors...these structures are apparently called buildings).

Xenophobia is a hell of a drug.

Post is cute, but doesn't mean anything.