Mike Leach

#78
#78
While the particulars of their systems aren't identical, Hal Mumme brought a pass crazy system to the SEC, was initially more successful at UK than they had been previously but eventually he couldn't sustain the success and was shown the door after a 2-9 record in his 4 year.

Not saying Leach will follow the same arc at State, but it's possible.
 
#79
#79
DiderotsGhost said:
The Leach haters always have ridiculous standards. They are acting like he didn't take over a 6-7 team. Miss State was expected to be the 2nd worst team in the SEC West this year and most people expected them to go 2-8 or 3-7 against their schedule. They win 2-3 more games and Leach is already overacthieving with that roster. And it's typically taken him a few years to get his players anyway.

Nick Saban and Dabo Swinney would not be winning national titles at Wash State or Texas Tech either

Of course, a lot of these same Leach bashers were bashing Dan Mullen; saying he'd fail at Florida because he didn't win a national title at frickin' Miss State. There are some people on these boards that think a coach sucks if he can't get a middle school team to beat the Super Bowl champs.



I don't agree with this. Leach has had a few great DCs (Ruffin McNeal, Alex Grinch). It's just as soon as they prove themselves under Leach, they can get a huge raise by going somewhere else. If you can make $200k at Wash State and you get a $1 million offer elsewhere, you take the mil. Texas Tech and Wash State can't compete for top coaching talent.

Leach at a top-tier school where he could get a top-notch DC would be scary.
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If Leach is so good, then explain why no top tier school has gotten him? Plenty of big time programs have hired HC's in the past 5-7 years. Why didn't Texas go after him? UF? PS? OSU? Just stop. Leach is a clown and nothing better than average as a HC.
 
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#80
#80
dobre_shunka said:
While the particulars of their systems aren't identical, Hal Mumme brought a pass crazy system to the SEC, was initially more successful at UK than they had been previously but eventually he couldn't sustain the success and was shown the door after a 2-9 record in his 4 year.

Not saying Leach will follow the same arc at State, but it's possible.
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Leach was Hal's OC at Valdosta State and Kentucky.
 
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#81
#81
BigOrangeTrain said:
If Leach is so good, then explain why no top tier school has gotten him? Plenty of big time programs have hired HC's in the past 5-7 years. Why didn't Texas go after him? UF? PS? OSU? Just stop. Leach is a clown and nothing better than average as a HC.
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Personality clashes
 
#86
#86
BigOrangeTrain said:
Convenient excuse.
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No it’s not. If I were an AD at a powerhouse program I wouldn’t hire him either. And it has nothing to do with his ability as a coach. It has to do with the fact that I wouldn’t want a coach who routinely spouts stupid sh*t to the media. That works fine in Lubbock and Pullman. In fishbowls like Knoxville, Tuscaloosa, Ann Arbor, etc that sh*t won’t fly.
 
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#87
#87
Boston Vol said:
“Average” football coaches don’t win at Places like Texas Tech and Washington State.
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Leach is such an interesting conversation because it seems like most people are at one of 2 extremes on him. You have a camp that thinks he's an incredible coach who, for whatever reason, hasn't gotten or doesn't want a chance at an elite school. You have another camp that think he's a complete joke and what he's done at Texas Tech/Wazzu isn't impressive.

If Leach had gotten a chance at an elite program, I think the performance wouldn't be altogether different than what he's done at the places he has coached. He'd win some big games (they would no longer be viewed as upsets, just wins in big games) and he'd be good for a real head-scratching loss every so often that would keep him out of playoff contention. The big difference would be that at a big school, they'd hold the upset losses against him more because the expectations are higher, and he'd eventually be fired if he didn't bring home some hardware. You're dead on that at places like Texas Tech, an occasional bad loss is OK, especially if you're occasionally getting a big upset win. They don't expect being consistently in contention, so all you have to do is get a big win every so often to keep people excited.

Leach is a good coach, but he's also only coached at relatively low expectation, low pressure jobs. The reputation he has is partially a function of that. If he was in Knoxville, how do you think a 54-48 upset loss to a 2-10 Vandy team would be received, and he talked about pirates in the postgame press conference? Sure, he might have upset Alabama or Georgia one year, but what if a couple head-scratching losses to Mizzou or Kentucky kept us out of Atlanta? Just go to Wikipedia and pull his track record. His act would get old here, or at other big jobs, really quickly.
 
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#88
#88
I think this article sums up Leach pretty well and lays out why, along with the Adam James thing, he hasn't taken a big job:
Whether Leach could survive, much less thrive, in the buttoned-up atmosphere of the SEC demands a vision that absolutely escapes me. The Pac-12 is not buttoned-up. A football coach in the Pac-12 is just a football coach. In the SEC, especially at a flagship state university, the football coach is a public, high-profile, quasi-political figure.

Leach's tenure at Texas Tech ended badly, with Leach being fired for player mistreatment. He responded by suing the university, demanding nearly $2.5 million that Tech didn't pay him after his firing. The Texas Supreme Court dismissed the suit five years ago, yet Leach continues to press his case in public. As recently as October, he had a website set up -- paycoachleach.com -- with an online petition that has been signed by nearly 1,900 supporters.

You can admire Leach's determination to air his grievance while at the same time recognizing that behavior may scare away potential employers. But then Leach has never struck me as a man who wants the close scrutiny of a bell-cow job. Texas Tech and Washington State are outliers, both on the map and in the consciousness of college football. When Leach bounces his unusual takes off the wall in Pullman, when he walks several miles from his home to the Cougar football building and back, when he disappears from campus for weeks at a time to live at his home in Key West, no one at Washington State thinks twice.
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Now, I'm not suggesting in the slightest that it's bad to take vacation. However, that's just something you couldn't do at a big job. Rightly or wrongly, that job has to be your life and the most important thing in your life, because that's what the expectation is.

Will Mike Leach spend his career as an outsider?
 
#89
#89
Boston Vol said:
No it’s not. If I were an AD at a powerhouse program I wouldn’t hire him either. And it has nothing to do with his ability as a coach. It has to do with the fact that I wouldn’t want a coach who routinely spouts stupid sh*t to the media. That works fine in Lubbock and Pullman. In fishbowls like Knoxville, Tuscaloosa, Ann Arbor, etc that sh*t won’t fly.
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Bobby Knight was POS but he never had trouble finding good jobs. Chip Kelly has said racist things yet he hasnt had trouble landing big jobs. Winning cures all. You think any AD is gonna care what he says if he wins big? Nope. Lets say he wins the SEC. You think the MSU AD is gonna care about the stupid ish he says? You think if he were at TN and won the SEC that anyone would care? I think Leach is a walking clown. But if he were here and winning championships? He could say whatever he wanted.

The fact is Leach has never gotten a big time P5 job at an elite school because he is viewed as a gimmick coach. This excuse of personality crap is jut that crap. And its a convenient way to defend the clown pirate.
 
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#91
#91
BigOrangeTrain said:
Bobby Knight was POS but he never had trouble finding good jobs. Chip Kelly has said racist things yet he hasnt had trouble landing big jobs. Winning cures all. You think any AD is gonna care what he says if he wins big? Nope. Lets say he wins the SEC. You think the MSU AD is gonna care about the stupid ish he says? You think if he were at TN and won the SEC that anyone would care? I think Leach is a walking clown. But if he were here and winning championships? He could say whatever he wanted.

The fact is Leach has never gotten a big time P5 job at an elite school because he is viewed as a gimmick coach. This excuse of personality crap is jut that crap. And its a convenient way to defend the clown pirate.
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Bobby Knight wasn’t known as a POS when he got the Indiana job in his early 30’s. Why couldn’t he land a top job after he got dismissed from IU? One of the greatest basketball coaches of all time, who was only 59 at the time, had to settle for Texas Tech because no big time program would touch him. So no, winning doesn’t cure all. And if Leach is viewed as a “gimmick” coach, why is Lincoln Riley at a place like OU? I mean he is basically running Leach’s offense after all.
 
#92
#92
BigOrangeTrain said:
Tell me again how may division titles or championships he won at either school.
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None, so what? So in your opinion only coaches who win championships are to be considered above average? Regardless of the situation? So I guess you consider Dan Mullen to be an “average” coach since he’s never won a division title or conference championship.
 
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#93
#93
Boston Vol said:
Bobby Knight wasn’t known as a POS when he got the Indiana job in his early 30’s. Why couldn’t he land a top job after he got dismissed from IU? One of the greatest basketball coaches of all time, who was only 59 at the time, had to settle for Texas Tech because no big time program would touch him. So no, winning doesn’t cure all. And if Leach is viewed as a “gimmick” coach, why is Lincoln Riley at a place like OU? I mean he is basically running Leach’s offense after all.
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Probably because he had Bob Stoops personally hire him and vouch for him once he retired. Reputations can be both deserved and undeserved - Leach is widely viewed as a gimmick coach, but Lincoln Riley is not, even though he probably should be until he shows he can win a playoff game. I think if Leach was at Oklahoma, his record would probably be very similar to Riley's. Big wins, but at least one head-scratcher a year.
 
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#94
#94
Oh, that's giving Mike Leach too much credit.

Even at Oklahoma, or Ohio State, or Tennessee, or Bama, Mike Leach would be the 8-5, 8-5, 8-5, 10-3 (but not division champ), 8-5, 9-4, 8-5 kind of coach.

His system has a top end. He has a top end. His recruiting ability has a top end. His scheme has a top end.

We all enjoy the fella's quirky style and sense of humor. We love having him around. He's good for the sport.

But he's not made for the top tier of the game. He's just not.

We got the coach with the unbounded upside. We missed nothing passing on Mike Leach.
 
#95
#95
BigOrangeTrain said:
Bobby Knight was POS but he never had trouble finding good jobs. Chip Kelly has said racist things yet he hasnt had trouble landing big jobs. Winning cures all. You think any AD is gonna care what he says if he wins big? Nope. Lets say he wins the SEC. You think the MSU AD is gonna care about the stupid ish he says? You think if he were at TN and won the SEC that anyone would care? I think Leach is a walking clown. But if he were here and winning championships? He could say whatever he wanted.

The fact is Leach has never gotten a big time P5 job at an elite school because he is viewed as a gimmick coach. This excuse of personality crap is jut that crap. And its a convenient way to defend the clown pirate.
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Knight couldn’t flourish in a social media world with camera phones. Think his downfall at Indiana was captured on camcorder. That article that Thamel wrote scorching Fulmer and Pruitt simultaneously glorified UCLA for firing Mora early and getting early hiring Chip Kelly. All that for Kelly to not leave his ESPN gig until after the playoffs and to never show a pulse in recruiting or building the program. Leach is better than Kelly in that regard...but not by much. Fulmer knew what we needed, identified it in Pruitt and never looked back. I remember being bummed that Fulmer wouldn’t even consider Leach. That’s why he’s good at what he does and Thamel and myself aren’t...amongst others.
 
#96
#96
VFL-82-JP said:
Oh, that's giving Mike Leach too much credit.

Even at Oklahoma, or Ohio State, or Tennessee, or Bama, Mike Leach would be the 8-5, 8-5, 8-5, 10-3 (but not division champ), 8-5, 9-4, 8-5 kind of coach.

His system has a top end. He has a top end. His recruiting ability has a top end. His scheme has a top end.

We all enjoy the fella's quirky style and sense of humor. We love having him around. He's good for the sport.

But he's not made for the top tier of the game. He's just not.

We got the coach with the unbounded upside. We missed nothing passing on Mike Leach.
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I'm not so sure about that. I think there's no doubt he'd recruit elite offensive talent to Oklahoma - what offensive recruit wouldn't want to play in that system? Part of the reason he's never fared well in the recruiting rankings is because he's only coached at places that don't have the "brand" or resources to land a bunch of 4 and 5-star players.

Riley runs a flavor of Leach's offensive system. Riley also plays no defense, just like Leach. Riley's defenses routinely gives up 30, 40, or occasionally even 50 points in victories. Lincoln Riley isn't winning 12 games a year because he plays better defense than a Leach-coached team would. He even has a former Leach D-coordinator now (Grinch). I think the results would actually be pretty similar.
 
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#97
#97
This thread is funny.

After week 1:
I told everyone Leach should’ve been our coach! He’s already turned Costello into a Heisman finalist against the DEFENDING NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!!!!

After week 2:
Leach is and always will be mediocre. This is why he’s never been a SEC coach before, he can’t win on the big stage. I’m so glad he didn’t come here!

The sudden rise and fall of Leach at MSU would be a great SEC short if they haven’t made one already. Perhaps we give the guy at least 2 or 3 years before we call him the next coming or cast him out.
 
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#99
#99
I have been really curious to see whether SEC shorts will try to deal with actual people Leach and Kiffin, now that such ridiculous people are available and basically impossible to ignore. That picture of Petrino in the "It's a wonderful life" skit this week is a good example of how far they go, I think. They don't actively parody individual people, although they had a skit where somebody pretended to be Matthew McConaughey off camera.

I'm no analyst of football, so I don't have any prediction of what Leach will do. We'll see.
 
#100
#100
tnutater said:
Some on here just are not as sharp as you. Some may think that a 1-1 record thru 2 games is an awfully small sample size for you to be saying "I told you so"
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Never said “I told you so”.
Never said Leach couldn’t coach in this or any other conference either.
Apparently, he can coach good enough to beat the defending National Champions and be competitive in his only other game, even with a new team without a full spring practice schedule in this “Covid” year.
I’d say 1-1 is better than 0-2 through 2 games. I’m sharp enough to know that.

Now you can run and quote me on that........
 
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