Military Active Duty, "Serving Our Country," Parenting Active Duty, "Opting Out"?

#1
Rasputin_Vol

Rasputin_Vol

"Slava Ukraina"
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#1
Why Is Military Active Duty, "Serving Our Country," But Parenting Active Duty, "Opting Out"? - Yahoo! News

Of course defending our borders, protecting our people and supporting our foreign policy positions throughout the world is important. But when did we start believing that military functions are more important to our national security than investing in the health, education and emotional stability of our next generation of Americans?
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Edit: I deleted my comment because it probably would have been the most over the top (but as always, truthful) comments I would have ever made on VolNation. The highlighted portion really struck a nerve, though.
 
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#2
#2
#3
#3
For the most part, she was dead on right.

One of the only things I question is this: why does anyone think that joining the military is 'serving our country'. Those that enlist are facilitators. Our government is drunk on power. Those that enlist are simply egging them on. Are all the lives and all the money lost in Iraq 'serving' us? Absolutely not. Those people that enlisted and went there are like the friend that drives a buddy to buy drugs. Simply going along with whatever foreign policy our government maintains is not 'serving'. In many cases, it is a disservice.
We teach them to take their patriotism at second-hand; to shout with the largest crowd without examining into the right or wrong of the matter -- exactly as boys under monarchies are taught and have always been taught. We teach them to regard as traitors, and hold in aversion and contempt, such as do not shout with the crowd, and so here in our democracy we are cheering a thing which of all things is most foreign to it and out of place -- the delivery of our political conscience into somebody else's keeping. This is patriotism on the Russian plan.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice -- and always has been.
- Mark Twain's Notebook

...the true patriotism, the only rational patriotism, is loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it.
- "The Czar's Soliloquy"
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- Mark Twain quotations - Patriotism
 
#4
#4
RespectTradition said:
One of the only things I question is this: why does anyone think that joining the military is 'serving our country'. Those that enlist are facilitators. Our government is drunk on power. Those that enlist are simply egging them on. Are all the lives and all the money lost in Iraq 'serving' us? Absolutely not. Those people that enlisted and went there are like the friend that drives a buddy to buy drugs. Simply going along with whatever foreign policy our government maintains is not 'serving'. In many cases, it is a disservice.
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:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
 
#5
#5
Weezy said:
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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That's gonna sting some people but the truth hurts. I don't think the comment is intended for those in the armed services who agree with our foreign policy. I don't agree with everything he said, but if you are in the military and disagree with our foreign policy then you aren't serving your country.
 
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nbakerld said:
That's gonna sting some people but the truth hurts. I don't think the comment is intended for those in the armed services who agree with our foreign policy. I don't agree with everything he said, but if you are in the military and disagree with our foreign policy then you aren't serving your country.
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Absolutely false.
 
#7
#7
PKT_VOL said:
Absolutely false.
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Really? If you think the US is wasting money, lives, and resources on wars you don't agree with, how in good conscience can you think you are doing good for your country?

I respect and admire ALL troops on the basis that they have put themselves on the line to protect us if the occasion arises. The occasion doesn't arise frequently. Wars do arise frequently, though.
 
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nbakerld said:
Really? If you think the US is wasting money, lives, and resources on wars you don't agree with, how in good conscience can you think you are doing good for your country?

I respect and admire ALL troops on the basis that they have put themselves on the line to protect us if the occasion arises. The occasion doesn't arise frequently. Wars do arise frequently, though.
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Your personal foreign policy view and politics do not matter when you join the armed forces. There are soldiers with a whole spectrum of personal beliefs which may not aline with their fellow soldiers or those who command them both directly and indirectly (POTUS and Congress). They do not make the orders. They merely carry out the orders that their countrymen (all citizens) ask of them. If they and their fellow countrymen do not like those orders, they have the power to change them via voting. We are a representative democracy. They sign up to defend the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic as seen fit by their countrymen. They do their job damn well.
 
#9
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PKT_VOL said:
Your personal foreign policy view and politics do not matter when you join the armed forces. There are soldiers with a whole spectrum of personal beliefs which may not aline with their fellow soldiers or those who command them both directly and indirectly (POTUS and Congress). They do not make the orders. They merely carry out the orders that their countrymen (all citizens) ask of them. If they and their fellow countrymen do not like those orders, they have the power to change them via voting. We are a representative democracy. They sign up to defend the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic as seen fit by their countrymen. They do their job damn well.
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It is truely unbelievable that people have to be told this.
 
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#10
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T-TownVol said:
It is truely unbelievable that people have to be told this.
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Truely, indeed.

I don't have to be told anything. I'm aware of all that. We are speaking past each other here, so try to pay attention....

I know those are the rules you play by when you enlist, but my point is that if you think our foreign policy is hurting the American people, how can you enlist and think you are serving your country? I'm not trying to judge others based on my beliefs, I'm judging others who happen to share my beliefs.

If a soldier thinks he's protecting Americans by killing somebody in the ME, good for him. I'm not talking to him. I'm talking to the guy who doesn't think he's helping Americans by killing somebody in the ME, yet he continues to do so.
 
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nbakerld said:
Truely, indeed.

I don't have to be told anything. I'm aware of all that. We are speaking past each other here, so try to pay attention....

I know those are the rules you play by when you enlist, but my point is that if you think our foreign policy is hurting the American people, how can you enlist and think you are serving your country? I'm not trying to judge others based on my beliefs, I'm judging others who happen to share my beliefs.

If a soldier thinks he's protecting Americans by killing somebody in the ME, good for him. I'm not talking to him. I'm talking to the guy who doesn't think he's helping Americans by killing somebody in the ME, yet he continues to do so.
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You are not giving the enlistee much credit are you? Kind of the same as you are giving me. You are not "talking past" any one. You are giving an "LG" that you are being called out for by KPT and me.
 
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therealUT said:
Why does this article bother you?
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Millions of women were told it was their “patriotic duty” to go home and have babies and open up jobs for men. Women who resisted and tried to keep their jobs were usually simply fired.

The insidiuous message that seeped into our national soul from that economic model was that paid jobs belonged to men -- first. And unpaid labor was the responsibility of women -- first. When have you ever heard of men being pressured to open up economic opportunities for women who are ready to return to paid employment after serving on the parenting front lines? Never.
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Read this and think about the context that she is talking about in this article. Read it 2 or 3 times and then ask yourself what is the purpose of this article.
 
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T-TownVol said:
You are not giving the enlistee much credit are you? Kind of the same as you are giving me. You are not "talking past" any one. You are giving an "LG" that you are being called out for by KPT and me.
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I don't know what your point is or what you are talking about. The snideness shines through effectively, though. Congratulations.
 
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#14
Just gonna throw this out...but if you think that the governmet's "foreign policy" is on a servicemember's mind during a combat mission, then you are somewhere in left field. I can promise you that his focus is on his buddy on his left, and his buddy on his right. I know that any service member that has been thru bullets flying, is not thinking about nbakerld on a Volnation message board, but rather about saving his own backside and the backsides of those with him. That is whether he believes in the "foreign policy" or not.

The comment about "not serving their country" is a little unfair to me but that is an opinion. There is a lot bigger picture to the military more than Iraq and Afghanistan that most will never see nor hear about. I think any servicemember with half a brain will tell you that Iraq was BS, but a very good job was done there considering the circumstances. I'm not sure if you expect someone to refuse orders everytime they dont agree with the mission or what? There is a lot of BS that goes on, every now and then you have to shut up and color.
 
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Bill Braske said:
Just gonna throw this out...but if you think that the governmet's "foreign policy" is on a servicemember's mind during a combat mission, then you are somewhere in left field. I can promise you that his focus is on his buddy on his left, and his buddy on his right. I know that any service member that has been thru bullets flying, is not thinking about nbakerld on a Volnation message board, but rather about saving his own backside and the backsides of those with him. That is whether he believes in the "foreign policy" or not.

The comment about "not serving their country" is a little unfair to me but that is an opinion. There is a lot bigger picture to the military more than Iraq and Afghanistan that most will never see nor hear about. I think any servicemember with half a brain will tell you that Iraq was BS, but a very good job was done there considering the circumstances. I'm not sure if you expect someone to refuse orders everytime they dont agree with the mission or what? There is a lot of BS that goes on, every now and then you have to shut up and color.
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I don't think that. I do appreciate your second paragraph.
 
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nbakerld said:
Really? If you think the US is wasting money, lives, and resources on wars you don't agree with, how in good conscience can you think you are doing good for your country?

I respect and admire ALL troops on the basis that they have put themselves on the line to protect us if the occasion arises. The occasion doesn't arise frequently. Wars do arise frequently, though.
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I see your philosophical point but . . .

When a soldier enlists, how is he to know what's in front of him? It's not as if he can choose what he participates in most of the time.
 
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PKT_VOL said:
Your personal foreign policy view and politics do not matter when you join the armed forces. There are soldiers with a whole spectrum of personal beliefs which may not aline with their fellow soldiers or those who command them both directly and indirectly (POTUS and Congress). They do not make the orders. They merely carry out the orders that their countrymen (all citizens) ask of them. If they and their fellow countrymen do not like those orders, they have the power to change them via voting. We are a representative democracy. They sign up to defend the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic as seen fit by their countrymen. They do their job damn well.
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+1
 
#18
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RespectTradition said:
For the most part, she was dead on right.

One of the only things I question is this: why does anyone think that joining the military is 'serving our country'. Those that enlist are facilitators. Our government is drunk on power. Those that enlist are simply egging them on. Are all the lives and all the money lost in Iraq 'serving' us? Absolutely not. Those people that enlisted and went there are like the friend that drives a buddy to buy drugs. Simply going along with whatever foreign policy our government maintains is not 'serving'. In many cases, it is a disservice.

- Mark Twain quotations - Patriotism
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Couldn't disagree more.
 
#19
#19
GAVol said:
I see your philosophical point but . . .

When a soldier enlists, how is he to know what's in front of him? It's not as if he can choose what he participates in most of the time.
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That's true, in 2000 they wouldn't know that they would fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, but they could see the trends. In the 90s we fought Iraq, and Clinton sent our troops to engage in more conflicts (all fairly small) than any other president in history.
 
#20
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nbakerld said:
I don't know what your point is or what you are talking about. The snideness shines through effectively, though. Congratulations.
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The point is that your LG type blanket statement is an insult to our troops. The snide comes back to the ones that dish it out first, Mr "try to pay attention".
 
#22
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nbakerld said:
That's true, in 2000 they wouldn't know that they would fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, but they could see the trends. In the 90s we fought Iraq, and Clinton sent our troops to engage in more conflicts (all fairly small) than any other president in history.
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So what should people do? Eschew military service until we go 10 years without an armed conflict and have a pacifist in office?
 
#23
#23
T-TownVol said:
The point is that your LG type blanket statement is an insult to our troops.
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I am not insulted.

Anyway, back to the topic of the article. Thereis nothing in said article that I find offensive or incorrect. Prospective employers should not punish troops for having spent time away from the industry; in the same vein, they should not punish parents who took time away from work to raise their children.
 
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therealUT said:
I am not insulted.

Anyway, back to the topic of the article. Thereis nothing in said article that I find offensive or incorrect. Prospective employers should not punish troops for having spent time away from the industry; in the same vein, they should not punish parents who took time away from work to raise their children.
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Your not normal.
 
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