Milton QBR

#126
#126
GAVol said:
Can't argue with that. The defense has to respect the downfield throws or the screens and running game become moot. I don't even care that much about the misses 30 yards down the field. It's when Joe misses the 8-15 yard stuff that makes me crazy. It just kills drives when we don't make the stick throws. I'm afraid he just doesn't process and anticipate well. I refuse to believe that we suddenly can't get receivers open on curls and slants and I honestly can't remember hitting a 10 yard out route yet this year. Last year, Hooker made a living throwing intermediate stuff to Bru when we needed a conversion.
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You just have to be able to hit receivers in stride right as they come out of their break. He has done it on a few occasions - but more often - behind, over, late, ----- his timing on the bubble screens is good but teams like Alabama and Georgia - won't allow us to do much there.
 
#128
#128
AlsaceFreak said:
I am still scratching my head at why we don't throw to our Tight ends more often. It's the largest target possible to catch a pass on the field. Forget downfield routes and just go pass the first down marker and post up (turn around). It's the most common play in the NFL..

I read a preseason article that mentioned Hooker and Jacob Warren never got on the same page last year. We should have triple the number of passes to our tight ends than we have so far, so I think it's more our play calling or scheme of the offense we run.

We have three great Tight Ends that can catch. Ethan Davis looked amazing in the Spring game.
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It’s almost like they don’t trust him to throw to the middle of the field….
 
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#129
#129
Joe had his best game of the year against UTSA - hopefully we can build on that and limit South Carolina's offense and production. It helps that their top receiver is out.
 
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#130
#130
Fullfillmer said:
You just have to be able to hit receivers in stride right as they come out of their break. He has done it on a few occasions - but more often - behind, over, late, ----- his timing on the bubble screens is good but teams like Alabama and Georgia - won't allow us to do much there.
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Do we know of Joe is told to throw to a spot???? Ie where the wr should be.. off the wr is late on a break or tangled up it'll make the throw look late or off target
 
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#131
#131
whodeycin85 said:
Do we know of Joe is told to throw to a spot???? Ie where the wr should be.. off the wr is late on a break or tangled up it'll make the throw look late or off target
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whodeycin85 said:
Do we know of Joe is told to throw to a spot???? Ie where the wr should be.. off the wr is late on a break or tangled up it'll make the throw look late or off target
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I would say on average - he releases it later than HH did and to some extent he has that luxury with the arm strenth that he has. It just appears to often be misfires. When he is accurate - it is a thing of beauty. There were some mid and long td passes available against UTSA that he missed on.
 
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#132
#132
volmandu said:
This. The screen pass is just an extension of our run game honestly. The ball travels to perimeter faster than a defender can and it gives opportunity to get you easy 3-4 or more yards. It also stretches the defenders sideline to sideline creating more running lanes. That is especially helpful when your Oline is not great. Usually on most of these sideline screen passes there is a TE or another WR blocking infront of the intended receiver so if the blocker gets his block correctly, the screen can result in large chunk play.

Yes, it is not a sexy play or an explosive one as we are accustomed to seeing under Huepel but it is an efficient one.
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Defenses are willing to give it to us, and are betting that doing so won't win the game for us. I think that is something to keep in mind, too.
 
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#133
#133
Fullfillmer said:
I would say on average - he releases it later than HH did and to some extent he has that luxury with the arm strenth that he has. It just appears to often be misfires. When he is accurate - it is a thing of beauty. There were some mid and long td passes available against UTSA that he missed on.
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Absolutely he has missed...but are they results of poor throws??? Example is the missed TD pass to Castles slanting...the throw looked high and out of reach, but castles was held for a second throwing the timing off...otherwise it's a perfect bullet to a 6'5 TE... is that their a bad throw or on the wr or defender??? Joe has missed, but I think his receivers are not running good routes, breaking late etc... hence why the OC is giving then patterns we've they sit, focus on the catch then make a move
 
#135
#135
AlsaceFreak said:
I am still scratching my head at why we don't throw to our Tight ends more often. It's the largest target possible to catch a pass on the field. Forget downfield routes and just go pass the first down marker and post up (turn around). It's the most common play in the NFL..

I read a preseason article that mentioned Hooker and Jacob Warren never got on the same page last year. We should have triple the number of passes to our tight ends than we have so far, so I think it's more our play calling or scheme of the offense we run.

We have three great Tight Ends that can catch. Ethan Davis looked amazing in the Spring game.
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This is maybe the biggest headscratcher for me too. I don't know why a TE would even come here.
 
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#136
#136
Fullfillmer said:
I would say on average - he releases it later than HH did and to some extent he has that luxury with the arm strenth that he has. It just appears to often be misfires. When he is accurate - it is a thing of beauty. There were some mid and long td passes available against UTSA that he missed on.
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His arm strength seems to be a weakness for him (except in the INT department). This is obviously anecdotal and just my observation, but any time he takes some power off the throws (off back foot, relaxed when game is out of hand, etc.) he seems to be more accurate. When the pressure is on and he's trying to throw with his full force, his accuracy suffers. It's as if the adrenaline overpowers his ability to relax.

It is interesting that he seemed to play better last season. It seems the losses on OL, WR, and OC have had more of an impact than anticipated.

I'm not sold on JM3 being a complete bust yet, but I also know he's no HH.
 
#137
#137
AlsaceFreak said:
I am still scratching my head at why we don't throw to our Tight ends more often. It's the largest target possible to catch a pass on the field. Forget downfield routes and just go pass the first down marker and post up (turn around). It's the most common play in the NFL..

I read a preseason article that mentioned Hooker and Jacob Warren never got on the same page last year. We should have triple the number of passes to our tight ends than we have so far, so I think it's more our play calling or scheme of the offense we run.

We have three great Tight Ends that can catch. Ethan Davis looked amazing in the Spring game.
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Agree. MaCastles looks good in limited action and Warren is there as well. Have 12 personnel and throw to TEs more .. I am totally for that
 
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#138
#138
volfan102455 said:
So you have asked them personally what they want to do? They took advantage of what the defense was giving them. Any good coach would do that and use those to open up the middle for the longer pass and run. Good coaches use their personnel to their advantage and take advantage of what the defense is doing. If anything, this season has shown me that the coaches are willing to adapt verses being committed to a set style.
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Bu the kicker is the defenses don't adjust based on us taking those screen pass yards. They actively want us to keep taking them. It isn't opening anything up.
 
#139
#139
TNStudMuffin said:
Bu the kicker is the defenses don't adjust based on us taking those screen pass yards. They actively want us to keep taking them. It isn't opening anything up.
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And if they let us do that over and over again as we move it right down the field and score, is that really a problem as long as we score? Isn't the intent of the game to score points?

Some of these arguments are around "how we should be scoring". And because we are not scoring on "long over the middle passes", we are terrible.

I have watched team after team after team do the same thing against Tennessee over the years and we have lost games to teams that do that because (1) the score and (2) they take time off the clock.

And against UTSA it did open up the middle for runs and some over the middle passes. Maybe not as many as some would like - but it did work.
 
#140
#140
deezvols said:
His arm strength seems to be a weakness for him (except in the INT department). This is obviously anecdotal and just my observation, but any time he takes some power off the throws (off back foot, relaxed when game is out of hand, etc.) he seems to be more accurate. When the pressure is on and he's trying to throw with his full force, his accuracy suffers. It's as if the adrenaline overpowers his ability to relax.

It is interesting that he seemed to play better last season. It seems the losses on OL, WR, and OC have had more of an impact than anticipated.

I'm not sold on JM3 being a complete bust yet, but I also know he's no HH.
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In hindsight - it is shocking how good HH was. I think he had 10 weeks last season where he finished with a top 2 or 3 qbr for the conference. Joe can and has had games where he was more accurate vs inaccurate. If memory serves Joe was not very accurate in high school - certainly not at Michigan and he has had games like Austin Peay here. I think it is more of a Joe thing than the offensive line and receivers or OC. 3/4 of the game against UTSA his QBR numbers would have been great - then he hit the stretch where he was 1 for 9 or whatever. He's the best we have right now, but we have to have better qb play, both this year and in the future.
 
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#141
#141
whodeycin85 said:
Do we know of Joe is told to throw to a spot???? Ie where the wr should be.. off the wr is late on a break or tangled up it'll make the throw look late or off target
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It's largely the same receivers that Hooker was hitting in stride last season. We had a couple more weapons but ... our top 3 receivers this year seemed to be in the right spots last season.
 
#142
#142
Fullfillmer said:
It's largely the same receivers that Hooker was hitting in stride last season. We had a couple more weapons but ... our top 3 receivers this year seemed to be in the right spots last season.
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squirrel struggled at times to run routes correctly, Bru had been solid, Keyton been dropping balls and running wrong for years...and Thompson doesnt have any fight in him..and drops..castle is new...
 
#143
#143
GAVol said:
Joe has to be better throwing it down the field . . . but we've also got to be smart enough to recognize that Milton has an ability to deliver those WR screens in a way that most QBs just don't and we're not screening just for the heck of it. In some ways it protects Milton, but effectively handing it off 20 yards away to a playmaker is never a bad thing.
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I'm generally nervous on the WR screens. While occasionally there is some concern that Joe throws too hard, his ability to get the ball to the wide receiver quickly is an advantage with his strong arm that many other QB's do not have. I did like the 81 yard run last week. I doubt if that is factored into the QB ratings.
 
#144
#144
whodeycin85 said:
squirrel struggled at times to run routes correctly, Bru had been solid, Keyton has been dropping balls and has been running wrong routes for years. Thompson doesn't have any fight in him. He also has drops. Castle is new, and Joe has trouble with accuracy and hitting open receivers.
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Modified your comments.
 
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#145
#145
volfan102455 said:
And if they let us do that over and over again as we move it right down the field and score, is that really a problem as long as we score? Isn't the intent of the game to score points?

Some of these arguments are around "how we should be scoring". And because we are not scoring on "long over the middle passes", we are terrible.

I have watched team after team after team do the same thing against Tennessee over the years and we have lost games to teams that do that because (1) the score and (2) they take time off the clock.

And against UTSA it did open up the middle for runs and some over the middle passes. Maybe not as many as some would like - but it did work.
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They are betting on us not scoring enough by doing that to win the game.
 
#147
#147
Hawkeye4588 said:
This is not intended to be another Milton sucks post. Just looking at the raw numbers. His current QBR ranking is #63: 2023 College Football Season Leaders Total QBR | ESPN. For perspective that is well below many other SEC QBs, including Jalen Milroe at Bama which I find funny because everyone thinks Bama does not have a QB this year. Yet the QB they do not have is 23 places above ours. Just a reminder The formula for this rating involves the number of passing yards, touchdowns, pass completions, interceptions and other actions recorded by the player. The highest possible quarterback rating is 100, while the lowest is zero. I guess for those of you who feel our offense is off even though he shows moments of brilliance you really are correct. His production numbers are not competitive with the rest of the conference.
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#10 in the SEC
 
#148
#148
TNStudMuffin said:
They are betting on us not scoring enough by doing that to win the game.
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Understood, but in the UTSA game, except for the drive in the 4th quarter where Tennessee was taking their time Tennessee was still scoring very quickly. It is not like those screens slow them down in terms of time to move the ball down the field. They only slow down when they are purposely taking time between plays.

- 1 play, 0.14 (81 yards)
- 9 plays, 2.56 (62 yards)
- 2 plays, 0.26 second (the score was I believe a pass OMG over the middle) (43 yards)
- 4 plays, 1.17 (60 yards)
- 5 plays 1.43 (39 yards)
- 12 plays 4.40 (66 yards) This was in the 4th quarter when they were taking time and needed to score)
- 2 plays, 0.33 (70 yards - both runs, if I remember correctly - up the middle)
 
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#149
#149
volfan102455 said:
Understood, but in the UTSA game, except for the drive in the 4th quarter where Tennessee was taking their time Tennessee was still scoring very quickly. It is not like those screens slow them down in terms of time to move the ball down the field. They only slow down when they are purposely taking time between plays.

- 1 play, 0.14 (81 yards)
- 9 plays, 2.56 (62 yards)
- 2 plays, 0.26 second (the score was I believe a pass OMG over the middle) (43 yards)
- 4 plays, 1.17 (60 yards)
- 5 plays 1.43 (39 yards)
- 12 plays 4.40 (66 yards) This was in the 4th quarter when they were taking time and needed to score)
- 2 plays, 0.33 (70 yards - both runs, if I remember correctly - up the middle)
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That's UTSA. They weren't gonna win in any case. And I don't think the idea is to slow them down. They want UT to hurry up. Hurry up and have a couple 3 and outs in a row so the defense gets gassed and they can take advantage.
 
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