Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet

#401
#401
Grand Vol said:
And further from that article:



Pulau Perak happens to be in the Andaman Sea between Malaysia and Indonesia.

Curious.
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If it was a mechanical issue and they lost avionics so they had to try to manually maintain altitude and turn, it could be the pilot was trying t make a wide turn to get back to Malaysia. Depending on what went out, he may have only been able to make a left turn, putting him over the Andaman Sea. Lots of traffic in that part of the water so you would expect someone to have seen something. Unless they somehow made it out to the Indian Ocean, in which case it will be a long time before we find anything.

(Dang, back in 05-06, I was part of a planning effort to do a joint Search and Rescue Training with Myanmar. Too bad that never came to fruition, they could be helping.)

Edit: The map is just for geographical reference.

Malysia-Airlines-Flight-MH370-missing-pic.jpg
 
#403
#403
Grand Vol said:
Chuck is so old school...

I seriousness, nothing legitimate could be concluded from that sort of information. It would certainly imply a hijacking and going to a destination where the aircraft/passengers would be ransomed. But being that there have been no demands or ransoms, it's likely the plane crashed and everyone was looking in the wrong place.

Now why the Malaysians kept this a secret is another matter and would be most curious.
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Probably didn't realize they had the information until now. Plus they had to sort out literally thousands of radar hits for that area. I'm not surprised.
 
#404
#404
YorkVol said:
If it was a mechanical issue and they lost avionics so they had to try to manually maintain altitude and turn, it could be the pilot was trying t make a wide turn to get back to Malaysia. Depending on what went out, he may have only been able to make a left turn, putting him over the Andaman Sea. Lots of traffic in that part of the water so you would expect someone to have seen something. Unless they somehow made it out to the Indian Ocean, in which case it will be a long time before we find anything.
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Your pic isn't showing up.

But being that it could be mechanical and without avionics your theory could be correct. But why would one try a complicated maneuver like a u-turn instead of something a lot simpler like a bank towards Ho Chi Minh City or Phenom Penn where there are suitable landing facilities? And furthermore, why not ditch the aircraft right off the coast of west Malaysia where rescue would be way easier? The incident happened almost five days ago and someone would have made contact by now, no?

But I still find it hard to believe someone on the crew couldn't have put out a 7700 distress call even for a brief time. And someone would have heard it.
 
#405
#405
YorkVol said:
Probably didn't realize they had the information until now. Plus they had to sort out literally thousands of radar hits for that area. I'm not surprised.
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I might agree, but the Malaysian Air Force official spoke off the record. So it comes back to the point of why conceal that type of information and what is that official afraid of?

ETA: Here's the quote from the article:

A high-ranking military official involved in the investigation confirmed the report and also said the plane was believed to be flying low. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information.
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Not sure why it's sensitive.
 
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#407
#407
Grand Vol said:
Your pic isn't showing up.

But being that it could be mechanical and without avionics your theory could be correct. But why would one try a complicated maneuver like a u-turn instead of something a lot simpler like a bank towards Ho Chi Minh City or Phenom Penn where there are suitable landing facilities? And furthermore, why not ditch the aircraft right off the coast of west Malaysia where rescue would be way easier? The incident happened almost five days ago and someone would have made contact by now, no?

But I still find it hard to believe someone on the crew couldn't have put out a 7700 distress call even for a brief time. And someone would have heard it.
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Agree with all of that, very good questions that need answers.

I recall one time an MC-130 carrying a platoon of Rangers lost all communications and lights and was forced to do an emergency landing in Dominican Republic in the dark. The pilots were able to land it safely even though the airport wasn't open for business. So it isn't unheard of for a plane to lose communications and to take drastic action that may not look logical to someone outside of the cockpit.
 
#409
#409
rocktopper16 said:
If it's so sensitive you got to wonder if some act of terror happened.
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Perhaps. Or a combination of terrorism and mechanical. The aircraft could have been seriously damaged in an attempted grab and the crew had limited controls.

Or it could be basic human emotion of embarrassment that a national flag carrier went down and the host nation was unable to find it so close to their shores.

Could have, what if and maybe can be speculated until the wreckage is discovered and an inspection begins.
 
#410
#410
Grand Vol said:
I might agree, but the Malaysian Air Force official spoke off the record. So it comes back to the point of why conceal that type of information and what is that official afraid of?

ETA: Here's the quote from the article:



Not sure why it's sensitive.
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They're embarrassed. Release it unofficially/off the record so the head guy doesn't look stupid.
 
#411
#411
YorkVol said:
Agree with all of that, very good questions that need answers.

I recall one time an MC-130 carrying a platoon of Rangers lost all communications and lights and was forced to do an emergency landing in Dominican Republic in the dark. The pilots were able to land it safely even though the airport wasn't open for business. So it isn't unheard of for a plane to lose communications and to take drastic action that may not look logical to someone outside of the cockpit.
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They land C-130's here on a dirt airstrip.

Is a 130 comparable in size to the missing flight?
 
#412
#412
Grand Vol said:
Perhaps. Or a combination of terrorism and mechanical. The aircraft could have been seriously damaged in an attempted grab and the crew had limited controls.

Or it could be basic human emotion of embarrassment that a national flag carrier went down and the host nation was unable to find it so close to their shores.

Could have, what if and maybe can be speculated until the wreckage is discovered and an inspection begins.
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Very well said.
 
#413
#413
YorkVol said:
I recall one time an MC-130 carrying a platoon of Rangers lost all communications and lights and was forced to do an emergency landing in Dominican Republic in the dark. The pilots were able to land it safely even though the airport wasn't open for business. So it isn't unheard of for a plane to lose communications and to take drastic action that may not look logical to someone outside of the cockpit.
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An AFSOC aircraft carrying a bunch of shock infantry landing at an airport that wasn't open? That couldn't be completely misconstrued and cause an international incident lol
 
#414
#414
YorkVol said:
They're embarrassed. Release it unofficially/off the record so the head guy doesn't look stupid.
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Actually, head Air Force guy released the info, but the confidential source that confirmed it was off the record.
 
#415
#415
Obsessed said:
They land C-130's here on a dirt airstrip.

Is a 130 comparable in size to the missing flight?
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No, it is much larger and would need a longer strip, preferably one that was paved. But there are a lot of long strips that were built in the area for use during Viet Nam, so it could have landed somewhere else. But I think we would have learned that by now.
 
#416
#416
YorkVol said:
Probably didn't realize they had the information until now. Plus they had to sort out literally thousands of radar hits for that area. I'm not surprised.
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No idea how this stuff works, but if they can't tell what's on the radar until some time after the fact, that doesn't sound like a very good air defense system.
 
#417
#417
Obsessed said:
They land C-130's here on a dirt airstrip.

Is a 130 comparable in size to the missing flight?
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Not even close. Plus the Herky bird is designed to land and take off from unimproved strips. Modern airliners are reasonably delicate when it comes to that sort of thing.

Not saying in an emergency any port in a storm as the old saying goes, but landing on a dirt strip can and probably would destroy the landing gear of an airliner.
 
#418
#418
Grand Vol said:
An AFSOC aircraft carrying a bunch of shock infantry landing at an airport that wasn't open? That couldn't be completely misconstrued and cause an international incident lol
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Yeah, it was pretty funny after we knew they were safe.
 
#420
#420
Grand Vol said:
Not even close. Plus the Herky bird is designed to land and take off from unimproved strips. Modern airliners are reasonably delicate when it comes to that sort of thing.

Not saying in an emergency any port in a storm as the old saying goes, but landing on a dirt strip can and probably would destroy the landing gear of an airliner.
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Ok. Thanks.
 
#421
#421
Grand Vol said:
Chuck is so old school...

I seriousness, nothing legitimate could be concluded from that sort of information. It would certainly imply a hijacking and going to a destination where the aircraft/passengers would be ransomed. But being that there have been no demands or ransoms, it's likely the plane crashed and everyone was looking in the wrong place.

Now why the Malaysians kept this a secret is another matter and would be most curious.
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That was my thoughts on it. Stolen plane. landed somewhere else. demands aren't made yet as to give the culprits time to distance themselves from the area....
(i do read to many adventure/mystery novels.)
 
#422
#422
Velo Vol said:
No idea how this stuff works, but if they can't tell what's on the radar until some time after the fact, that doesn't sound like a very good air defense system.
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I'll try to break it down as best as I can.

Modern radars, especially commercial sets, don't entirely rely on just a paint of the aircraft itself. Aircraft are equipped with a transponder that sends back a signal that says what kind of aircraft, altitude and other data. Think of it as an amplifier of the initial radar bounce. So an air defense might get a hit on the aircraft, but without a transponder signal in return has no idea what it is. And flying low as is alleged gives plenty of false readings without a transponder signal to give a return.

Modern military radar sets are more accurate in tracking low targets and getting a good return, but I wouldn't imagine the Malaysian military to be that technologically advanced. And if we are talking a basic approach or scan type radar, the chances of getting better data is just not that good.
 
#423
#423
If the P-3 and MH-60 can't find it in the ocean, nothing will. I just think its they are looking in the wrong grids because there's no debris being found. This very well could be a hijacking, flew below radar, turned off the aircraft transponder, identifier and went elsewhere.
 
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#424
#424
Velo Vol said:
No idea how this stuff works, but if they can't tell what's on the radar until some time after the fact, that doesn't sound like a very good air defense system.
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Identification relies on a transponder sending out an ID code. If the transponder was off, they would just get the blip on the screen. So they would have to first sort out everyone who went by at the time in question, then determine if they had a signal from something large enough to be the missing plane. There is a lot of traffic in the area so it would take some effort to sort out.

Plus, it is possible a radar operator identified it early on but the info didn't make it up the chain of command until a few days later.

Here is another graphic of the area in question:

_73498637_china_malaysia_plane4_624.jpg


BBC News - Malaysia Airlines MH370: Plane 'changed course'
 
#425
#425
AirVol said:
If the P-3 and MH-60 can't find it in the ocean, nothing will. I just think its they are looking in the wrong grids because there's no debris being found. This very well could be a hijacking, flew below radar, turned off the aircraft transponder, identifier and went elsewhere.
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Which does still bring us back to the point that no demands have been made. And landing an airliner at a remote location isn't as easy as previously stated.

Has Locke opened the hatch yet?
 
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