Mistakes a coincidence or something more?

[Freak]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 14, 2005 6:29 PM
So Tuberville suddenly learned to coach when Cadillac, Brown, etc showed up on campus?

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No but many will argue that bringing in Borges was the difference.

What was this topic about anyway? :lol:

Are we limiting the talent discussion to offense?

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by vol_freak@Nov 14, 2005 6:36 PM
No but many will argue that bringing in Borges was the difference.

What was this topic about anyway? :lol:

Are we limiting the talent discussion to offense?

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I think the topic was started by someone insinuating that we were throwing games. The discussion about offensive talent started with me saying we had no impact talent on offense. A spirited and enjoyable debate ensued. Occasionally, it's fun to stir the natives up with some hyperbole. I do, however, think our talent has fallen off dramatically on offense.

 

[WA_Vol]

Look at SC, for 20 years SC could not beat UT or FL and then when Spurrier shows up, all of a sudden their players got good? I dont buy it.

 

[Freak]

I think this has been a great discussion.

When you word it like that hatvol, I would tend to agree with you. While I still believe we have adequate talent on offense there is no question that our talent has dropped off recently. I think the point that was trying to be made was that we have a lot more talent on offense than what we are showing right now.

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by oklavol@Nov 14, 2005 6:43 PM
Look at SC, for 20 years SC could not beat UT or FL and then when Spurrier shows up, all of a sudden their players got good?  I dont buy it.

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When was the last time UT and UF were this bad?

 

[WA_Vol]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 14, 2005 7:46 PM
When was the last time UT and UF were this bad?

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If it all it took to win was talent, then Donnan at Ga would have won a couple of SEC championships because he was routinely landing top 5 recruiting classes. All of sudden when Riecht showed up they had good players? Again, I dont buy it.

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by oklavol@Nov 14, 2005 6:50 PM
If it all it took to win was talent, then Donnan at Ga would have won a couple of SEC championships because he was routinely landing top 5 recruiting classes.  All of sudden when Riecht showed up they had good players?  Again, I dont buy it.

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Talent isn't everything, but I never saw Jerry Bailey win the Kentucky Derby riding a plowhorse either.

 

[borange]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 14, 2005 6:57 PM
Talent isn't everything, but I never saw Jerry Bailey win the Kentucky Derby riding a plowhorse either.

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True but I would take Spurrier and a plow horse any day for he brings out the best in a team and makes them play as a team. We all have agreed here that TENN has sent many more players to the NFL than any other school and for that what has TENN done as a team.

 

[WA_Vol]

Originally posted by vol_freak@Nov 14, 2005 7:44 PM
I think this has been a great discussion.

When you word it like that hatvol, I would tend to agree with you. While I still believe we have adequate talent on offense there is no question that our talent has dropped off recently. I think the point that was trying to be made was that we have a lot more talent on offense than what we are showing right now.

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I think the talent drop off has been most noticable at the QB position. UT's offense doesnt work without a top notch QB. CC was good but not great like Manning, or Shuler. Tee made things happen with his running ability. I think thats been the missing ingredient since 98. Fulmers a great recruiter, but he's had trouble landing a top 5 qb prospect until he got Crompton.

 

[Ooltewah Vol]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 14, 2005 4:59 PM
Did he mail it in before or after he won the Syracuse and Auburn games in'98?

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he mailed it in his senior year. Have we forgotten that Henry was the starter by the time we got to the Fiesta again. JL was all about taking care of him and din't run half as hard as he did b4 his injury. Henry and stephens carried that 98 team not Lewis.

 

[gonygonygo]

dont forget, when you look at all the factors, the players are the ones messing up. at the end of the year, we can make changes to the coaching staff. But until then, we need to put these kids at fault just as much, if not more.

 

[Fayettevol]

You guys have done a pretty effective job of ignoring the original post. How many think it was posted by a Bammer flamer?

:rock:

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by Ooltewah Vol@Nov 14, 2005 8:41 PM
he mailed it in his senior year. Have we forgotten that Henry was the starter by the time we got to the Fiesta again. JL was all about taking care of him and din't run half as hard as he did b4 his injury. Henry and stephens carried that 98 team not Lewis.

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There was no senior year. Jamal entered the draft after his junior season. Without Jamal's production at Syracuse and Auburn, anything Henry and Stephens did later would have been utterly meaningless.

 

[VolBeef88]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 14, 2005 6:14 PM
Using the same word twice in a sentence speaks volumes about your conversation skills.

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Shaking ones head while one types can cause typos.

You have stated some very ignorant things and they are hard not to laugh at. You stated that any runner could make it at Denver. What about Clarrett and who is the great back there now? I don't seem to here about Denvers running game that much anymore it is all about "no mistake Jake". You fail to see that a player can be a great college player and a bust in the NFL. ie how many Heisman busts have there been?
It could be argued that our talent has dropped. But I think the reality is that the talent is there but playing smart is not. Why that is happening is a mystery to me.
Another silly thing you have done is act like just any old Joe can make it in the NFL. I will state that the worst player in the NFL is a great football player. There are so few people in this world that have the talent to make it in the NFL, so to make lite of it is silly.
You have called AF a plodder and when FACTS were shown you, you had no response to them.
So I will accept that you are an emotionally charged fan and leave it at that. If you can bring facts to show dif then fine. But til then you can "feel" how you want. Perhaps you should call DR Phil.

 

[allvol]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 14, 2005 4:59 PM
Did he mail it in before or after he won the Syracuse and Auburn games in'98?

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When he could not get 2 yards on 2 straight plays against Florida in 1999.

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by VolBeef88@Nov 15, 2005 10:15 AM
Shaking ones head while one types can cause typos.

You have stated some very ignorant things and they are hard not to laugh at. You stated that any runner could make it at Denver. What about Clarrett and who is the great back there now? I don't seem to here about Denvers running game that much anymore it is all about "no mistake Jake". You fail to see that a player can be a great college player and a bust in the NFL. ie how many Heisman busts have there been?
It could be argued that our talent has dropped. But I think the reality is that the talent is there but playing smart is not. Why that is happening is a mystery to me.
Another silly thing you have done is act like just any old Joe can make it in the NFL. I will state that the worst player in the NFL is a great football player. There are so few people in this world that have the talent to make it in the NFL, so to make lite of it is silly.
You have called AF a plodder and when FACTS were shown you, you had no response to them.
So I will accept that you are an emotionally charged fan and leave it at that. If you can bring facts to show dif then fine. But til then you can "feel" how you want. Perhaps you should call DR Phil.

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Show me the long runs Foster has made. You have presented no proof he isn't a plodder. Making the NFL is a great accomplishment. However, there is a big difference between being on a roster and being an impact player. The fact that we lack difference makers on offense is evidence. You appear to be the one emotionally vested in an opinion here. The proposition that all of the offensive woes are related to coaching seems to have become dogma to you. I didn't see you jumping on my proposed wager about Foster's NFL career. Some guys may succeed in college with less than dominant talent, but you don't prosper in the NFL without the goods. Also, many of the offensive linemen in Denver have retired or are on the downside of their career. Tatum Bell, when healthy, has been productive. Clarett is fat and slow. That doesn't get you far in the NFL.

 

[VolBeef88]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 15, 2005 10:32 AM
Show me the long runs Foster has made. You have presented no proof he isn't a plodder. Making the NFL is a great accomplishment. However, there is a big difference between being on a roster and being an impact player. The fact that we lack difference makers on offense is evidence. You appear to be the one emotionally vested in an opinion here. T

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The kid has started three (3) games! And in ALL 3 he has rushed for OVER 100 yds. If that is a plodder then bring on the plodder.
I guess you are right and the UT staff, other major colleges and recruiting services are all wrong about the talent we have recruited. Again thank you oh great wise one.

 

[allvol]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 14, 2005 5:23 PM
I'm not saying he's horrible. However, he is exhibit #1 of how far our talent level has fallen in the past few years. Let's see how many 30+ yard runs he has in his career. I'm not calling him a stiff, I'm simply stating the obvious. He's a good back, but he's not an elite back.

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30+ yard runs look great... but when you can't get 2 yards when you need it?

Lewis started 9 games his freshman season, including the bowl game. He had 1237 yards. That is 137.4 yards-per-game rushing when he started during his fresman season. 6 of those games were over 100+ yards. In 2 of those games, he rushed for over 200+ yards.

Foster has now started 3 games. He has rushed for 405 yards in those 3 games. That is an average of 135.0 yards-per-game rushing when he starts. All 3 games, Foster has rushed for 100+ yards.

 

[VolBeef88]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 15, 2005 10:32 AM
Show me the long runs Foster has made. You have presented no proof he isn't a plodder. Making the NFL is a great accomplishment. However, there is a big difference between being on a roster and being an impact player. The fact that we lack difference makers on offense is evidence. You appear to be the one emotionally vested in an opinion here. The proposition that all of the offensive woes are related to coaching seems to have become dogma to you. I didn't see you jumping on my proposed wager about Foster's NFL career. Some guys may succeed in college with less than dominant talent, but you don't prosper in the NFL without the goods. Also, many of the offensive linemen in Denver have retired or are on the downside of their career. Tatum Bell, when healthy, has been productive. Clarett is fat and slow. That doesn't get you far in the NFL.

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Here is AF long runs in the three he has started.
Cocks-23
Irish-43
Memphis-21
Do any of those count as long runs?

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by VolBeef88@Nov 15, 2005 10:40 AM
The kid has started three (3) games! And in ALL 3 he has rushed for OVER 100 yds. If that is a plodder then bring on the plodder.
I guess you are right and the UT staff, other major colleges and recruiting services are all wrong about the talent we have recruited. Again thank you oh great wise one.

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If you want to buy into the recruiting services, go right ahead. Those guys are pure salesmen. They pump the classes of the teams whose fans are silly enough to subscribe to their services. Look at their backgrounds. They are no more qualified to make talent evaluations than you or I. Other than Meachum, Sears, and some of the younger players, who on our offense did we win a battle with a major power for? Just because SC or Miami sends a kid a letter doesn't mean they were a priority recruit. What will the excuse be when a coaching change doesn't make the offense significantly better? If you think our offensive talent is remotely comparable to SC, Texas, Ohio State, etc., you're entitled to that opinion. The facts certainly don't bear that out.

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by VolBeef88@Nov 15, 2005 10:47 AM
Here is AF long runs in the three he has started.
Cocks-23
Irish-43
Memphis-21
Do any of those count as long runs?

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The 43 yard run at Notre Dame makes my point. A back with elite speed takes that the distance. I'm stating that we do not have gamebreakers on this offense. Foster's a fine back, but he is what he is. If you want to compare him to James Stewart, fine. But please don't embarass the kid by attempting to put him in the discussion with talents like Lewis and Webb.

 

[VolBeef88]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 15, 2005 10:51 AM
If you want to buy into the recruiting services, go right ahead. Those guys are pure salesmen. They pump the classes of the teams whose fans are silly enough to subscribe to their services. Look at their backgrounds. They are no more qualified to make talent evaluations than you or I. Other than Meachum, Sears, and some of the younger players, who on our offense did we win a battle with a major power for? Just because SC or Miami sends a kid a letter doesn't mean they were a priority recruit. What will the excuse be when a coaching change doesn't make the offense significantly better? If you think our offensive talent is remotely comparable to SC, Texas, Ohio State, etc., you're entitled to that opinion. The facts certainly don't bear that out.

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Do you know that the Recruting services put the ratings on these kids for ALL to see not just for those at a specific school? You can get a subscription and they will let you know how the kids your school is after are doing etc. But it is not school specific. Many Schools were going after EA, Shaefer, Brett Smith, Slick Shelly, Crompton, Cody Douglas and many more. How do you think UT recruiting classes were so high by ESPN, SI, CFN and other who are not recruting services.
Now how about AF long runs?

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by allvol@Nov 15, 2005 10:30 AM
When he could not get 2 yards on 2 straight plays against Florida in 1999.

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Much like Travis Henry failed on third and 1 in 2000, thus forcing us to punt and ultimately lose the game?

 

[hatvol96]

Originally posted by VolBeef88@Nov 15, 2005 10:57 AM
Do you know that the Recruting services put the ratings on these kids for ALL to see not just for those at a specific school? You can get a subscription and they will let you know how the kids your school is after are doing etc. But it is not school specific. Many Schools were going after EA, Shaefer, Brett Smith, Slick Shelly, Crompton, Cody Douglas and many more. How do you think UT recruiting classes were so high by ESPN, SI, CFN and other who are not recruting services.
Now how about AF long runs?

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Answer in post #71. Tom Lemming has admitted to doing exactly what I mentioned. He always rates kids in Texas, Ohio, and the Deep South higher, because that's where he sells the most subscriptions. Listen to those guys when they are guests on local radio. Wherever they are, the pump the local talent and the area university's talent. It's marketing 101.

 

[VolBeef88]

Originally posted by hatvol96@Nov 15, 2005 10:57 AM
The 43 yard run at Notre Dame makes my point. A back with elite speed takes that the distance. I'm stating that we do not have gamebreakers on this offense. Foster's a fine back, but he is what he is. If you want to compare him to James Stewart, fine. But please don't embarass the kid by attempting to put him in the discussion with talents like Lewis and Webb.

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So there we have it. A 43 yard run is not long or good enough. I guess I remember wrong. I don't remember JL or Webb ALWAYS getting a TD when they broke the line of scrimmage.

ALLVOL your the stat man. Could you show us the stat that everytime JL and Webb broke the line they scored? I did not realize they did.